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Post by 2fw8212a on Apr 26, 2018 20:23:33 GMT -5
Some do it a few times before they finally get it, but once that sin is out of your life, and you never turn back to it, because of Christ, he has healed you of this sin. Christ knows that the enemy is strong and doesn't want to let us go. "For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”" - Romans 1:17
"Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." - Hebrews 10:38
"But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul." - Hebrews 10:39God bless you in Jesus' name, Sister!
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Post by John on May 22, 2018 21:43:48 GMT -5
Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is attributing the works of God to the devil. It is not unbelief. There is nothing in the passage to indicate it is unbelief. Jesus had just gotten through casting out devils, and the religious crowd said he did it by Beelzebub, the prince of the devils. In Matthew 12:28, Jesus said, "But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you." So again, what did the religious crowd do? They spoke a word against the Spirit of God and said it was Beelzebub that was responsible for what the Holy Ghost did.
Jesus said in verses 31 and 32 "All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Before I post verse 32, we see that God will forgiven all sin and blasphemy but blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. That is not unbelief. Unbelief is not blasphemy. Unbelief is not unpardonable. Many people go years in unbelief but get saved. If that was the unpardonable sin, they could never be saved. Now to verse 32
"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him..." What does speaking a word against Jesus have to do with belief or unbelief? Why even mention this if unbelief is the sin? It is to make a comparison, speaking a word against Jesus verses speaking a word against the Holy Spirit. Who do you have to believe in to be saved? Jesus, but you can speak against him and find forgiveness. Let's continue "...but whosoever, speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." Again, it is speaking against the Holy Ghost that is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost and the unpardonable sin. This has nothing to do with rejecting an alter call. You can do that and be saved later on. You can curse Jesus, and if you live to repent, he will forgive you. You cannot speak against the Holy Ghost and be forgiven.
The teaching that the unpardonable sin is unbelief came about through people who believe in unconditional eternal security for two reasons. 1. If the unpardonable sin is speaking against the Holy Ghost, a born again believer could do it, and there goes their doctrine. 2. If the unpardonable sin is speaking against the Holy Ghost, people that teach the gifts of the Spirit are not in operation today could commit this sin by mocking a genuine healing or miracle, and they want to be able to mock faith healers and moves of the Spirit without worry. There is nothing in this passage that indicates this has anything to do with unbelief.
I know you aren't a believer in OSAS, but that is where this doctrine originated and why.
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Post by John on May 23, 2018 9:54:40 GMT -5
I am certain my interpretation is correct, so we will just have to disagree on this. The text doesn't support what you said. It is not like I came to this understanding last week. I saw this more than 30 years ago. It is not complicated when you look at it in light of the story.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 23, 2018 12:20:07 GMT -5
I don't know how we can make this any simpler. Blasphemy doesn't mean rejection or disbelief. It doesn't. Seeing a miracle doesn't mean hearing the gospel. It doesn't. Calling a miracle witchcraft is not the same as rejecting the gospel. It isn't. Why would Jesus bring this up to the Pharisees -- not when presenting the gospel or talking about repentance, but at the exact moment they said His miracles were witchcraft? This isn't something that needs to be thought about over and over, with a dozen cross-references, after we've agonized for weeks. That conversation was as direct as John 3:16. No need to play metaphorical games.
This bothers me because of its semantic gameplay. If words can be made to mean whatever we want them to mean, then there's no point in using dictionaries. And if we need a dozen other verses to explain one comment from Jesus, then apparently He couldn't give straight answers.
Do you also think John 3:16 doesn't really mean what it says?
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 23, 2018 12:28:06 GMT -5
How do we wholeheartedly reject a truth we know is the truth? Either we believe it or we don't. People don't disbelieve what they believe. That quote in Hebrews speaks of people who deliberately sin after they "received the knowledge of the truth." If you know the truth, you're not disbelieving it. You may act like a jerk and try to get away with murder when you know the truth. But you still know the truth.
Many more people will die in their sins without ever receiving the truth of the gospel at all. What of them? Have they not died in their sins? Of course everyone who rejects the gospel will die in sin. So why would Jesus make a distinction for those who heard and still rejected? Do they get punished extra hard, or something?
And why did He say that any word spoken against Him can be forgiven?
Absolutely none of this makes any sense.
but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— because they said, “He has an unclean spirit." Mark 3:29-30
This appears in three gospels. We need to take it awfully seriously.
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Post by frienduff on May 23, 2018 14:03:17 GMT -5
Lets just end this debate with this . To not accept the gospel one is damned , if one comes and continues not they are damned . And blashpehmy against the HOLY GHOST is what the bible says it is . THIS he said because they said He has an unclean spirit . THEY said he cast out demons by demons . That is blasphemy against the Holy ghost . This should be easy enough for all to agree on . So letters , just warn that denying the gospel and or not continuing in JESUS is damanation . IF you keep saying its THE blasphemy of the Holy ghost folks who may have needed to hear what you were saying about not conintuing in JESUS , will see that and think OH this dude must be wrong about everything . WHen in fact you are correct , that IF one does not obey THE SPIRIT they will fall away . SO lets not title that blasphemy against the HOLY ghost but do title it death . cause it is that serious . Sin will harden a heart , not maybe , IT DOES . and the early church knew that . So just lets warn on that .
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Post by frienduff on May 23, 2018 14:12:21 GMT -5
How do we wholeheartedly reject a truth we know is the truth? Either we believe it or we don't. People don't disbelieve what they believe. That quote in Hebrews speaks of people who deliberately sin after they "received the knowledge of the truth." If you know the truth, you're not disbelieving it. You may act like a jerk and try to get away with murder when you know the truth. But you still know the truth. Many more people will die in their sins without ever receiving the truth of the gospel at all. What of them? Have they not died in their sins? Of course everyone who rejects the gospel will die in sin. So why would Jesus make a distinction for those who heard and still rejected? Do they get punished extra hard, or something? And why did He say that any word spoken against Him can be forgiven? Absolutely none of this makes any sense. but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— because they said, “He has an unclean spirit." Mark 3:29-30This appears in three gospels. We need to take it awfully seriously. Sister a good example of what you are saying IS SO RIGHT . Those who have the Holy Ghost , who believed in him, some lust comes along THEY KNEW it was wrong , like say remarriage or , whatever, but INSTEAD of heeding the SPIRIT and the bible , they find men who will say , OH its all good you can remarry , SIN DOES HARDEN a heart and resistance to the HOLY GHOST , will QUENCH IT . because I had this happen . I got a call one night at my house , from where I used to work.A lady had come into the store , and SHE has asked if I believed in GOD. the other person said YES , and she said I KNEW IT , cause every time I was praying to GOD for direction , He kept putting my face into her mind . Okay , so she calls my house . She tells me that story . I talk to her about the bible , about Christ , about many topics in that bible that GOD knew she needed to hear, She had said she was going into churches and they kept giving her split answers and it was not lining up with the scripture . SO , I told her what JESUS said concering the remarriage , what paul who supported JESUS said . This lady was set free. She got out of that adulterous relationship , did not marry the other man . HERE is the kicker Some time later a few years , she came back and was engaged now to another man . I tried telling her again . And she said I KNOW when you told me that I was convicted for several years, but preachers kept explaining it . YEAH , YEAH . not only that she was going now to a church that accepts gay marriage too. GO FIGURE . you bet sin will harden a heart and if we don't love truth , we go wherever they preach our hearts desires . scary , but if happens. look at how merciful God had been to her , he had sent her the right direction and still even after several years of being convicted she gave up . this happens . fact . many do it . many will get some kind of conviction about something said in their church , but will go ahead and in time disregaurd it . Even when they see it in the bible , they get convicted , but they are not content with truth and thus they go find one who MAKES it MAKE SENSE if ya know what I mean . what they want to hear .
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Post by frienduff on May 23, 2018 14:19:09 GMT -5
Why you think we got so many OPINIONS . why the hermuantics that keep explaining away scrips . I TELL you why men kept seeing the errors when they got pointed out , but kept finding a way around it and every time something is spotted they found a way around it . NOW its taught as doctrine and they got ways around so many things . HOW on earth , one would think can one go around what both peter and paul said , ABOUT one having come , having tasted , having been made partaker of the HOLY GHOST and then fall away , AND THEY USE their heurmatics , claim you need totake it in text , in other places they say ,OH that was to the jews or whatever TO KEEP ON KEEPING ON in unbelief . Because lets face it , that is what it is . THEY believe MEN , but not CHRIST or the apostels . IF they belived CHRIST , they would believe HIS SAYINGS that clearly shows we can fall away , THEY would believe the apostels who had known Him WHO CLEARLY say the same things . THIS is not new , they twist scrips to support prosperity gospel , they twist scrips to support this or that . ITS UNBELIEF in JESUS , and belief and trust in men. And the bible clearly says , CURSED is the man whose hope or trust is in men. WE living in such deceptive times now , nothing suprises me anymore .
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Post by frienduff on May 23, 2018 14:20:33 GMT -5
And one more thing and we really need to heed this . Satan knows how to deceive. SO what does he do, he uses men who taught his lies , to make bibles that OMIT what the original ones were saying . WATCH out , they have done major damage and so few know this .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 23, 2018 14:24:27 GMT -5
Let's not allow this to cause strife between us. I'm not angry at you. It's not about division, nor about anyone being superior.
Please, just allow me to leave you with this. Spiritual knowledge will not violate reason. It isn't opposed to common sense. Bad religious teachers always try to explain away gibberish logical conclusions with the excuse that it's too spiritual for human reason. These poor followers have to shut off their brains and stop asking questions in order to believe. God doesn't work that way. Human reason cannot create spiritual knowledge -- but when true spiritual knowledge illuminates our minds, it strengthens our reason. Jesus and Paul and all of the apostles reasoned over Scripture in the synagogues. They didn't tell people to blindly believe a cat was a dog.
Just something for you to think about, my friend. Much love. We're all works in progress.
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Post by frienduff on May 23, 2018 14:33:38 GMT -5
And how did the dark one get ideals into churches . He came along and used wordly men , and they taught things like < OH the bible is too hard to grasp lets use this greek or this teachers example . And also oh lets rewrite bibles . we better watch out . IF anyone has the SPIRIT they IN TIME will understand . Have patience we don't know it all , specially at first. But its what seeking HIM is all about the love of truth , wisdom , understanding . my advice , truly is put down mens interpreations of things , put down their self help books, yeah that says a lot right their , putdown their OPINIONS , PICK UP BIBLE and my advice KJV. I don't condemen no man , but by grace I read and loved reading it , and in time it has sunk in and I did go and read other versions , folks my eyes welled up with tears , some anger , THEY have pulled the wool over many eyes , WATCH OUT . Some versions may be better than others , BUT my advice , pick up the version of old . When men come along with footnotes that either take from , omit what the older orignals said , I DONT care if they told you they spotted an angel who gave them the wisdom and they found this or that text buried that was hidden , YOU RUN so fast your shadow cant keep up . WE N very deceptive times and have been. ITS JUST getting worse .
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Post by John on May 23, 2018 14:38:36 GMT -5
Since we had a thread on this topic already, I merged them.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 13:35:01 GMT -5
Completely agree about being careful of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Just am wondering though whether Jesus was actually alluding to the fact that the kingdom of Satan IS divided against itself and that is WHY it will fall. Just look at your average Christian forum and the fights and divisions that break out due to the flesh which Satan rules. Or wars of nations against nations and tribe against tribe that have characterized and shaped pretty much the entire history of mankind. Those are all examples of Satan's kingdom divided against itself. Counterfeit miracles are another example....it does seem that Satan CAN cast out Satan, at least for a while, when it suits him and when the Lord allows it to ensnare those whose hearts are not right. (Remember that Satan's power is not really his power, he has no power of his own....ultimately all power belongs to God....and that has to do with the wisdom behind why we must be careful of blaspheming the Spirit and speaking evil of dignities.) But this is why Jesus also spoke a little further down in the same chapter of the instance of a house being swept clean for a while until the demon returns, bringing more with it, either in cases where Satan has cast out Satan so to speak, or if a person returns to their sin.
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 24, 2018 13:46:52 GMT -5
Completely agree about being careful of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Just am wondering though whether Jesus was actually alluding to the fact that the kingdom of Satan IS divided against itself and that is WHY it will fall. Just look at your average Christian forum and the fights and divisions that break out due to the flesh which Satan rules. Or wars of nations against nations and tribe against tribe that have characterized and shaped pretty much the entire history of mankind. Those are all examples of Satan's kingdom divided against itself. Counterfeit miracles are another example....it does seem that Satan CAN cast out Satan, at least for a while, when it suits him and when the Lord allows it to ensnare those whose hearts are not right. (Remember that Satan's power is not really his power, he has no power of his own....ultimately all power belongs to God....and that has to do with the wisdom behind why we must be careful of blaspheming the Spirit and speaking evil of dignities.) But this is why Jesus also spoke a little further down in the same chapter of the instance of a house being swept clean for a while until the demon returns, bringing more with it, either in cases where Satan has cast out Satan so to speak, or if a person returns to their sin. The enemy can do nothing, absolutely nothing good.
If someone thinks he does, then it is a deceit... Because the enemy does nothing good, absolutely nothing."A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit." - Matthew 7:18
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." - John 7:24
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 24, 2018 13:56:58 GMT -5
It is possible for spirits to back off and give someone a reprieve to let them think that some witch doctor healed them. It’s one of the ways to keep a victim in bondage. It doesn’t mean spirit was cast out, but it means the spirit goes underground for a few weeks to keep the person deceived.
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