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Post by 2fw8212a on May 24, 2018 14:08:27 GMT -5
It is possible for spirits to back off and give someone a reprieve to let them think that some witch doctor healed them. It’s one of the ways to keep a victim in bondage. It doesn’t mean spirit was cast out, but it means the spirit goes underground for a few weeks to keep the person deceived. This answers why there are so many who are walking according to their own lusts and when they hear about sanctification they say: "It is the Lord's work, not ours"."But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?" - Luke 6:46 But they still claim to be walking according to His will, but in reality they are wolves in sheep clothing.
"...the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" - Ephesians 2:2 "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed." - John 8:34+36
Do not be deceived: who is not for Him is against Him."...Take heed that no one deceives you." - Matthew 24:4
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Post by tlsitd on May 24, 2018 14:12:11 GMT -5
Chalk this up to an opinion, but I'm of the persuasion that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is one of knowingly attributing the work of God to the devil---not of being mistaken.
The Pharisees knew that Jesus couldn't be doing what He was doing unless God was with Him (John 3:2); they were jealous of Jesus and wanted to find fault with Him to have a reason to kill Him, because they wanted glory for themselves and He was interfering with their system and showing them for what they were in God's eyes. I believe that the Pharisees knew that Jesus wasn't casting out demons by Beelzebub, but they didn't want to acknowledge that God was working through Him, because they didn't want the people to believe in Him (or to believe in Him themselves, which would require humbling themselves and repenting, neither of which they had a heart to do).
I imagine that there are probably a lot of people who attribute the work of the Holy Spirit to the work of the devil, or otherwise explain it away as a fraud, in ignorance or because they are deceived. I don't believe that that is an unforgivable sin. (There were pagans in Lystra who attributed the Lord's healing of a lame man through the apostle Paul to their pagan gods---Acts 14:8-18---which could be considered blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, I suppose.) But if they know that something is the work of God, and they attribute it to the devil, knowing very well that it is not, that is unforgivable.
I don't think it's very likely that a Christian would ever do this (although a hard-hearted one on his or her way out of Christ might), and I think more has been made of the unforgivable sin of the blasphemy of the Spirit than needs to be, because it's probably a rare and difficult thing for a person to do---although it is prudent not to judge hastily things about which we are not sure. There are probably a lot of Christians needlessly fretting over whether they may have done this (and they probably haven't), and thinking that they can't be forgiven---which is probably just a tactic and persuasion of demons, to confuse and discourage them, by convincing them that they're done for and might as well give up on Jesus. (Hopefully the Lord, merciful and faithful as He is, and protective of His sheep, will show them otherwise.) A Christian who is grieving and panicked over having somehow blasphemed the Holy Spirit and wants to be forgiven probably hasn't done it. I doubt that a person who had would feel remorse for doing it. (The Pharisees didn't.)
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 24, 2018 14:19:54 GMT -5
I agree with you, Sister Light. I don’t think this is the case of someone mistakenly saying one bad thing or making one bad joke or anything like that. I I don’t think we all must walk on egg shells lest we lose our salvation any moment. I think this refers to people who are looking at point-blank evidence of supernatural miracles, knowing God’s power is behind it, and viciously attacking it anyway.
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Post by John on May 24, 2018 14:44:47 GMT -5
It is possible for spirits to back off and give someone a reprieve to let them think that some witch doctor healed them. It’s one of the ways to keep a victim in bondage. It doesn’t mean spirit was cast out, but it means the spirit goes underground for a few weeks to keep the person deceived. I agree. Jesus said Satan doesn't cast out Satan, but he will do as you said, back off for a time to deceive.
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 24, 2018 15:29:11 GMT -5
A Christian who is grieving and panicked over having somehow blasphemed the Holy Spirit and wants to be forgiven probably hasn't done it. No, they did not do it.And I believe that the Pharisees doing that, was just the reflection of what was in their hearts: They were working against God."For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies." - Matthew 15:19And that is exactly what I believe blaspheming the Holy Spirit is: To work against God, to call Him a liar, to work against the Truth, and consequently reject His love so that they cannot be forgiven."He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters." - Luke 11:23
"but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it—lest you even be found to fight against God." - Acts 5:39
"Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God..." - Hebrews 3:12
"For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth." - 2 Corinthians 13:8And to do that requires an evil heart, that loves darkness rather than light. And consequently, such people will never receive the love and truth of the gospel."...unless you repent you will all likewise perish." - Luke 13:1And they will consequently, be condemned for not believing and receiving the only One that could forgive them and save them. "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." - John 3:19
In short, their hardened and evil hearts prevented them from receiving the love of the truth."For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them." - Matthew 13:15
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 17:09:30 GMT -5
<< The enemy can do nothing, absolutely nothing good.
If someone thinks he does, then it is a deceit... Because the enemy does nothing good, absolutely nothing. >>
Okay brother, I understand what you are saying, but I will just try to share the thread of what I'm saying and see what you think. First, remember that the Tree of Knowledge of GOOD and Evil is the tree that the serpent deceived with....and how man even has some natural righteousness (good) which is filthy rags to God.....and how it is a principle that we need to die out even to the "good" that we thought we had, as Moses is an example of that.
And also considering this scripture:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders
Would Satan use obvious evil miracles to DECEIVE with, for example to make someone sick instead of an apparent healing? I don't think he would be able to deceive anyone in that case.
Remember also how Pharaoh's priests counterfeited the miracles that Moses did.
Those things are all part of how I'm seeing this, but the main thing that led me to this conclusion are the scriptures about this topic in Matthew 12.....beginning with the Pharisees accusing Jesus of casting out demons by Beelzebub, then Jesus saying if I do that, then by whom do your people cast out demons? hinting in an ironic way that they really were doing counterfeit miracles (by Beelzebub) but knowing they weren't going to admit to that....and in this SAME CONVERSATION Jesus went on to talk about demons that come back again after they are cast out (because they were counterfeit and cast out by Beelzebub). Because remember that who the Son sets free is free indeed...those demons that HE casts out by the Spirit of God are not coming back again. And noticing too that with the false prophets and healers a lot of their miracles don't last and they always blame the person for not standing on faith to keep their "miracle"...instead of blaming themselves for doing a counterfeit miracle. Nowhere does Jesus say you need faith to KEEP a miracle, only to receive it. Anyway brother I will just post these scriptures to consider, and remember that they are all connected and part of the same conversation.
Mat 12:26-28 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Mat 12:31-33 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. (The bad fruit He is talking about in this case is blaspheming the Holy Spirit...nothing to do with miracles or casting out.)
Mat 12:43-45 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”
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Post by frienduff on May 24, 2018 17:21:57 GMT -5
It is possible for spirits to back off and give someone a reprieve to let them think that some witch doctor healed them. It’s one of the ways to keep a victim in bondage. It doesn’t mean spirit was cast out, but it means the spirit goes underground for a few weeks to keep the person deceived. And they aint divided . this is the plan . they go in and torment a soul, then lead certain soul to a false one , then the false one casts out demons , ONLY that was the goal. Cause if false buddists , new age and so on can make this person better, WHO YOU THINK they gonna TRUST and FOLLOW . THAT is why this is done . They aint divided they working as one to deceive the whole wide world , AND sister they going to do it with the all inclusive interfaith move , it will have miracles , it will . and by those miracles they will DECIEVE and all will believe that GOD must be in all religions . Satan sleeps not , oh no , his all inclusive plan is to simply lead the world RIGHT to the beast and worship it they will and they will allow it to rule their lives , nations and WORLD . We getting closer to the rise of the dark one than most realize .
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 24, 2018 18:39:49 GMT -5
Please, consider the following:
"And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”" - John 20:22-23
What is the sin that will not be forgiven?
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Post by John on May 24, 2018 18:53:25 GMT -5
When Jesus asked the question about who the religious leaders thought was working when their children cast out demons, I think the point was it was not the devil. Jesus was very plain in saying that Satan won't cast out Satan. If he did, his Kingdom couldn't stand. The people that opposed Moses used magician's tricks. Look at what kind of illusions a good magician can do? He can make a building seem to disappear.
The devil may put a sickness on a person for a reason, and then be willing to take it off, a type of blackmail. I once heard of a preacher that got sick, and the devil spoke to him and said he put that sickness on him, but if he would agree to never preach about hell, the blood or the cross, he would take the sickness away and make him a very successful evangelist. The minister refused and died. That is not the devil working against himself, but blackmailing someone. If the story is true, the minister is in a better place. If he had given in to the devil, he might have recovered and gotten fame and fortune, but he would have lost his soul.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 24, 2018 20:16:23 GMT -5
Not every temporary healing is a false one. Jesus told several healed people to go and sin no more lest they should fall back into sickness. A believer may have an encounter with Jesus that drives out a spirit, but then they don’t resolve the sin/weakness/open door the enemy uses to get to them. So it returns. The story of the homeless spirit wandering through dry places is about that. It circles back around and sees that this person never got any closer to God.
Also, what you’ll see often is that spirits will know some minister is skilled enough to cast them out, or they get tired of being preached at, so they go dormant. They’ll pretend to be gone because they don’t want a confrontation. The victim feels better for a few hours. As soon as they get home, the spirit rises up again.
Ministers must have strong discernment to know when a spirit is gone. Preferably there is follow up counseling to help the person stay healed.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 24, 2018 20:31:36 GMT -5
The devil may put a sickness on a person for a reason, and then be willing to take it off, a type of blackmail. Yes, there are many levels to the enemy’s operation. John Ramirez told kind of a similar story. One night a spirit came to visit him in the dark. It said it would leave if he turned on the light. John recognized this was a ploy to make him dependent on fleshly human tactics. He kept the light off, calmly stayed in bed, and prayed for Holy Ghost power to fight back. When the bad spirit realized it was going to have to tangle with the Holy Ghost, it left. The enemy absolutely does toy with people like a cat playing with a mouse. Sicknessnes, scare tactics, and false signs are all part of the game.
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 24, 2018 20:39:48 GMT -5
The enemy absolutely does toy with people like a cat playing with a mouse. Sicknessnes, scare tactics, and false signs are all part of the game. Is this in the life of a believer?!
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Post by frienduff on May 24, 2018 20:52:17 GMT -5
The enemy absolutely does toy with people like a cat playing with a mouse. Sicknessnes, scare tactics, and false signs are all part of the game. Is this in the life of a believer?!Satan was allowed to torment job. And also some sickness is due to sin . Letters you loved brother . Its time to raise those hands again and praise the Lord . We have all we need IN CHRIST .
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 7:17:13 GMT -5
Yes, I agree that sometimes the devil returns due to sin....but that in other cases it is also because it wasn't really cast out by the Spirit of Christ.
Think about Jesus saying to those who rejected Him, the Pharisees, "If I cast out demons by Beelzebub by whom do your people cast them out?" He was being ironic and mocking them. Think about the Pharisees, the religious leaders, and the spiritual condition of Israel at that time. It was much like today....bible says the sheep were scattered, and Israel was under judgment (Romans) for her backsliding. We know that Judaism had become a Babylonish mixture/hybrid at that time and they followed the Talmud. So who do we think they were casting out demons by? The Holy Spirit? No, I believe it was like the counterfeit miracles of the false prophetic movement that we see today.
And regarding Satan's kingdom divided against itself.....we know it is not going to stand because we have read the end of the Book. Satan is the god of this world and we know the world is divided against itself...that the kingdoms of this world are divided against themselves....until Christ returns and the kingdoms of the world and devil then become the kingdoms of Christ. Jesus said concerning the end....that it would be nation against nation, wars and rumours of wars.....Daniel wrote that from a certain point there would be wars until the end and even Jesus said if He didn't cut it short no flesh would survive. And of course wars mean there is division. Well, anyway that is what the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to....the Lord bless you all, I will just leave it at that to ponder on, and maybe it will become more clear down the road.
Just a P.S. to add....how does that fit in with the attempt to "unite" the world....I don't think these things eliminate that factor at all.....but it means it won't stand. Just some thoughts here and not implying to know how everything fits or how it will all play out in the details....but it seems not hard to foresee that even with a united global government, eventually human nature ruled by Satan will take it's natural course and there will be divisions and power struggles. Just like communism, it sounds deceptively good on the surface but it just can't work because of the reality of the devil and fallen human nature (Satan's kingdom). The devil thinks he can unite the world....really when you think about it, it's laughable to think it could last...but that is the core of the antichrist deception/delusion in believing man has righteousness of his own. I think we have been forgetting that aspect of the end time, that there will be wars. Well, lots to ponder with these things...praise be to God.
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 25, 2018 7:39:15 GMT -5
Please, consider the following:"And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”" - John 20:22-23What is the sin that will not be forgiven?watchful frienduff John PG4Him Please, understand what blaspheming the Holy Spirit really is:"...unless you repent you will all likewise perish." - Luke 13:5
"If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth." - 1 John 1:6
"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." - 1 John 1:7
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