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Post by John on Apr 30, 2018 19:32:15 GMT -5
And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the son of man.
This passage is one of the reasons I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, and why I do not believe that everyone that claims they are a Christian will be caught up with Jesus in the air before the tribulation. To me, this is saying that for those who are faithful, and keep their lives in order, there is a way of escape before the great tribulation begins. Warnings are given that are very lifestyle specific. We are given examples of the kind of things we need to be careful of that will lead to us not being prepared for the Lord's coming. The things mentioned are surfeiting, drunkenness and cares of this life. Surfeiting means debauchery. It is just living a very sinful lifestyle based on pleasures of this life, such as drunkenness or fulfilling the lusts of the flesh in other ways. Drunkenness, we know what that means. There are people that stay in a drunk condition to cover up the pain they are feeling. It has a numbing effect, but it also leaves you in a vulnerable state where you are unaware of the dangers that exist around you. People in a drunken state not only will do things and have no memory of them, but they will be taken advantage of without their knowledge. Cares of this life cause us to get into a place where we are not concerning ourselves with the Lord. Everything we do is out of trying to get by on this earth, and we can get to a place where we are poor towards God. When we are behaving like that, the judgements will come while we are unaware of the warning signs all around us, and before you know it, we will be smack dab in the middle of the tribulation period.
That being said, we are told to do two things. The first thing is watch, and the second thing is pray always. How do we watch? We live our lives like this may be the last one we will have on this earth. If you knew Jesus was coming today, how would you live? Second, we are to pray always that we will be accounted worthy to escape. A lot of people in the church world today would get offended by the mere notion that anyone tells them to pray that they will be worthy. They believe they are worthy simply because they said a sinner's prayer at an old fashioned alter when they were 10 years old. If that is true, why in the world would Jesus tell us to pray always that we would be accounted worthy? That doesn't make any sense does it? What are we to be accounted worthy of? That we "escape all these things that shall come to pass." That is why I personally believe in a pre-tribulation rapture for those who are walking close to God. What is the alternative? Are people praying that they would die before the tribulation period begins to escape it? I am interested in differing opinions, as I know that there are many that believe the entire church will go through the tribulation period.
One thing I hope we can all agree on is that we have been warned by Jesus himself to take heed to watch how we live. That should not even be a controversy. We should be able to agree that we are to watch and pray always that we will be accounted worthy to escape all of the things that are coming on the face of the earth and to stand before the son of man. After all, Jesus said that. The question is once again, what does this mean to you when you read it? Perhaps you have other things about the passage you would like to comment on, like how we could have once been saved, yet not be found worthy. There are a lot of things to consider in these three verses. I welcome all thoughts, regardless of how you come down on this passage.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Apr 30, 2018 20:08:10 GMT -5
We must always stay on guard because surfeiting and drunkenness can hit us “at any time.” Some are tempted by it when they want to drown their pain. Others are tempted when life is good and they have friends to entertain. These temptations can hit us when we least expect it. Peter tells us to be sober and vigilant. There is a real enemy in a very real fight for our souls, and this world is a very dangerous environment at his disposal. The stakes are too high. We cannot afford to drop the ball even for a moment.
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Post by frienduff on Apr 30, 2018 20:29:45 GMT -5
The that day , IS JESUS day . His return is a one time event . Their is the wrath of GOD that comes upon the whole world , after the great tribulation of anti Christ . Butero. I want you to really study this . Their have been those who believed n pretrib, that if they will carefully examine all the scrips , then have left the pre trib view. As we know its nothing to strive over . Butero, I was unchurched and I simply read the bible without any mans slant on pre , mid , or post . Its like Osas, if you just start fresh and read for yourself butero, you will come to the conclusion. Osas, pretrib and some other things were passed down from men. and never was for many years in early church teachings . Really pray about it butero. Really do this . I just read for myself and the whole concept was we go through great tribulation, just not GODS actual wrath . Start fresh butero. I know when folks have learned things , it can take a while to unlearn some things . I know in my heart butero , if you really start fresh on this whole concept , sure it may take some time , but you will see it . No matter what , you remember this . We will see the mark of the beast coming out , and we cannot mark Gods temple and put it into mans beast system. Now rfid or like tech , does that . It links us right into a system and it does it in the temple . And its all tied into buying and selling . As time goes on butero, as the world keeps getting worse and goes under a collective delusion for world peace , when we aint been raptured yet , you will see what I have been saying . We better buckle down and instead prepare to suffer an all out betrayal against us . cause we going to see it . and many of us are going to be killed . Just really start fresh again butero. I know if you take the time to study this fresh again and we keep seeing things come to pass, you will see it very clear . You loved butero. One quick reminder , in all ages the church has never escaped tribulations , ITS had to endure it . IT will be the same at this great one too. Just pray about it .
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Post by 2fw8212a on Apr 30, 2018 20:40:16 GMT -5
...why in the world would Jesus tell us to pray always that we would be accounted worthy? It is by faith. What would happen if Noah did not build the ark the Lord commanded Him to build?!Most people would probably say to him: "Hey, you are working to be saved".Anyway, people who say that are probably not in the Spirit. Those who are in the Spirit does not rebel against God, they obey Him. "And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him." - Acts 5:32
"because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." - Genesis 26:5Then I believe all the warnings given in the New Testament are to exhort and to confirm to believers, and to serve as a sign to unbelievers."He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him — the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day." - John 12:48
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Post by John on May 1, 2018 8:28:23 GMT -5
I have looked into the issue of the rapture, as there are quite a few people that reject it today. There are different reasons I still believe it is true. In addition to this passage I posted that says we are to watch and pray always that we will be accounted worthy to escape all those things to come, there is the issue of conditions at the time of Jesus' return. It describes a time where they will be marrying and given in marriage, and the Lord will come when nobody is expecting him. That paints a picture of conditions being as they have been all along. It won't be anything like that during the tribulation period. In addition, we will have a very good idea when Jesus is going to return for the second coming. Just wait till the anti-Christ sets himself up as God in the temple, and add 3 to 3 1/2 years. Those of us who believe in the rapture believe the Lord could return today. Those who do not believe in the rapture believe there is no way he can come back now because they are looking for the anti-Christ first.
I think the reason people reject the rapture today in large numbers is because they know there will be saints that will be killed during the tribulation period. I know there will be many like that, but I don't believe the entire church goes in the rapture, only those who are keeping their life in order. I also believe there will be many that will get saved during that period of time, because they have heard of the tribulation all their lives, and will recognize what is taking place.
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Post by frienduff on May 1, 2018 10:02:48 GMT -5
That worries me too for folks . Who say their is no rapture . When clearly their is . More and more do not believe in a rapture . Then their are still a few that do, and the timing of it is all they disagree on . The rapture , twinkling of an eye event , IS real and it will happen one day . More and more will sadly begin to look to man , this world peace , and will believe its the will of God. This will lead them to the Christ called Anti. All major religions believe in this coming . the christains should KNOW this is anti Christ , but sadly due to gross changes by the powers of darkness many are going into some odd concepts , and those concepts are and will lead right to anti Christ . We have got to remain diligent in Christ . the delusion that has at first trickled in , is increasing and once they bust down the foundation , the truth that JESUS is the ONLY way , It increases magnifold right in the direction of the coming wicked one As messiah figure , world peace giver , solution giver to the ills of the world . And right now , we in fast phase of breaking down JESUS as the ONLY way via , you guessed it all inclusive interfaith . NOW , am I saying that we are running out of time , am I saying this could just go viral asap. YOU BETTER BELEIVE I AM . This world , its system ITS all out ready for the darkest king and kings and the darkest hour ever . And it could kick off so fast at any time .
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Post by frienduff on May 1, 2018 10:15:48 GMT -5
The thing is , as time continues , the whole world as one will not even recognize the great tribulation for what it is . THEY will simply see it as roundups of the dangerous men and women who would not conform to this all inclusive world love peace lie . In fact , they are some even now in christain circles that thinks ones like US , are a burden , can be dangerous , are in the way of world peace. EVEN NOW its in some minds . Even NOW . Most truly will simply be living every day life as is, seeing on the news where this dangerous group of terroists got arrested today , ONLY THING is some of us will be those so called ones . As society goes on day by day with rfid in the skin , buying and selling like all is well, seeing these round ups as nothing more than a necessary means for world peace . NEVER knowing it was really the great tribulation . Yeah, talk about delusion , but their it is . Society more and more sees things as chips as convenient ways to open doors , business are slowly but it will speed up , slowly offering them to employees , and few see this for what it is . What starts out as conveience , when enough are on it and society sees this more and more , GUESS what , it will become mandatory . Some of the few churches are now even teaching that rfid in the skin IS NOT the mark of the beast that the six six six gets added later . NOPE. Most don't even think that , and some are actually saying its fine , its good , and this will increase . When the truth is simply this . IF our body is not even our own , BUT GODS , What right have we to offer up our body into this wicked satanic system that for years , for years , has shaken the fist at GOD and done all to rid HIM from schools , from society , cheering the gay move , cheering the transgender move And they want US to offer up our temple , WHICH IS GODS not even ours , TO THAT . But some are doing just that . and it will increase . And everyone not in the lambs book of life , will just never see it for what it is , they will simply continue on in society , marrying , buying and selling never knowing they were given over to THE DELUSION . its nasty , I warned us . And it will go viral in time . Before every agenda was accomplished by satan , satan firs worked on the hearts of society to get it ready . When society hit a certain point LAWS WERE PASSED . abortion gay marriage , two examples . satan first works to get the people more accepting , then the laws get changed . So too with this one world religion IT will be the law , so too with rfid , it will be the law . And yet so few do see. Talk about deception . And its going to go viral and fast increase in short time .
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Post by John on May 1, 2018 13:13:05 GMT -5
The things you speak of could seem normal, but not the plagues, natural disasters, angels preaching the gospel, the two witnesses, the heavens rolling back like a scroll, etc. That won't seem normal to anyone. That is why I don't see how that could be describing the second coming, but must be a pre-tribulation rapture.
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Post by Sister on May 1, 2018 20:07:44 GMT -5
Butero
Worthy to escape the wrath of the Lamb. Punishment on the wicked. This can only happen if we are not snared with the rest of the world, sinning constantly right up until the coming, spiritually unaware. Be not found standing with the trangressors who are taken captive by Satan to do his will. All deceived. All will be punished. If we abide in the truth, we shall not be doing these things but waiting on our Lord to come deliver and not judge us. Escaping judgement.
Luke 21:12 - 18 shows us that help will be given, and what they will do to us.
If we are worthy to escape all these things,...then he means his wrath. When Christ returns we will not be standing down here with the trangressors, but up in the air with him instead. All leads to Armageddon when the judge comes. This is the big final day.
What do you think?
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Before Christ judges the world, he will pick up his saints. Those standing alive will see him come in the clouds first. The resurrection about to begin.
Luke 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Luke 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luke 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Be not standing with the trangressors when the tribulation starts until it finishes.. when Christ pours out all his fury. His punishment is on Babylon and her inhabitants, not on his saints. Pray that we be worthy to escape his wrath which the world will receive. I think this is what it means?
God bless.
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Post by oc on May 2, 2018 2:58:19 GMT -5
We as saints should watch and pray so that we ourselves want be carried away with the wicked, but instead we will be caught away with the Lord. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is living a seperated life unto God dedicated in service to the Lord's work and are not worthy as a result.
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Post by John on May 2, 2018 6:04:55 GMT -5
We as saints should watch and pray so that we ourselves want be carried away with the wicked, but instead we will be caught away with the Lord. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is living a seperated life unto God dedicated in service to the Lord's work and are not worthy as a result. I love this response, because it is so true. A lot of people claim to know Jesus, but they are not separated unto God. They have never been sanctified. The Bible says we are to come out from among them and be separate, but few do that. Many do nothing for the Lord and live lives that can't be distinguished from your typical sinner.
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karanbac
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Post by karanbac on May 22, 2018 10:45:32 GMT -5
I am pre wrath, I believe I will go thru the devils tribulation and that the harposio, rapture will happen when Christ comes to deliver Gods wrath on the unbelievers. A good book is the pre wrath view by Alan Kurschner. Or Charles Cooper, Fight, Flight or Faith?
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Post by John on May 24, 2018 14:36:32 GMT -5
I am pre wrath, I believe I will go thru the devils tribulation and that the harposio, rapture will happen when Christ comes to deliver Gods wrath on the unbelievers. A good book is the pre wrath view by Alan Kurschner. Or Charles Cooper, Fight, Flight or Faith? Is pre-wrath different from mid-trib?
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karanbac
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Post by karanbac on May 24, 2018 16:46:37 GMT -5
Pre wrath is different than mid trib. Prewrath is where believers will suffer the devils tribulation. In the middle of that suffering, Jesus will do two things. One come and rapture His children And then come again with all his saints with Him When Jesus hands out God’s wrath on all unbelievers.
I would confer to Alan Kurschner to confirm as I always thought I was prewrath before there was a prewrath position.
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Post by John on May 25, 2018 8:54:07 GMT -5
Pre wrath is different than mid trib. Prewrath is where believers will suffer the devils tribulation. In the middle of that suffering, Jesus will do two things. One come and rapture His children And then come again with all his saints with Him When Jesus hands out God’s wrath on all unbelievers. I would confer to Alan Kurschner to confirm as I always thought I was prewrath before there was a prewrath position. I have never heard of that. I am pre-trib and there are some that are post-trib here. When it comes to end time events, there are a lot of different views.
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