Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 17:18:19 GMT -5
Well in that case, amen sister. Glad we are in agreement on that.
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on May 4, 2019 18:24:35 GMT -5
When we have our prayer meetings here Thursday night, I always make sure at least one of the admins (John or Frienduff) is present before we begin. They do the honors of opening our prayer time. The rest of us pray as the Spirit leads under the admins’ guidance.
If Phoebe and Priscilla were personally helpful to Paul, they were clearly involved in administrative work. Paul even told the Roman fellowship to assist Phoebe in the business she was doing. A woman can be a ‘pastor’ if she’s helping her husband with the bookkeeping or other tasks. That’s her way of being a servant to the church. That’s not the same as her discipling men. I don’t think ‘usurping authority’ is being in charge of a bake sale.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 20:22:34 GMT -5
When we have our prayer meetings here Thursday night, I always make sure at least one of the admins (John or Frienduff) is present before we begin. They do the honors of opening our prayer time. The rest of us pray as the Spirit leads under the admins’ guidance. If Phoebe and Priscilla were personally helpful to Paul, they were clearly involved in administrative work. Paul even told the Roman fellowship to assist Phoebe in the business she was doing. A woman can be a ‘pastor’ if she’s helping her husband with the bookkeeping or other tasks. That’s her way of being a servant to the church. That’s not the same as her discipling men. I don’t think ‘usurping authority’ is being in charge of a bake sale. Amen.... I agree that women certainly have roles in the body of Christ and can help the cause of the gospel through their spiritual gifting and/or by helping in practical ways. Remember that pastoring is a spiritual gift in itself though, so being a pastor's wife wouldn't qualify one to be a pastor regardless of how she is helping her husband.
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on May 4, 2019 20:25:06 GMT -5
When we have our prayer meetings here Thursday night, I always make sure at least one of the admins (John or Frienduff) is present before we begin. They do the honors of opening our prayer time. The rest of us pray as the Spirit leads under the admins’ guidance. If Phoebe and Priscilla were personally helpful to Paul, they were clearly involved in administrative work. Paul even told the Roman fellowship to assist Phoebe in the business she was doing. A woman can be a ‘pastor’ if she’s helping her husband with the bookkeeping or other tasks. That’s her way of being a servant to the church. That’s not the same as her discipling men. I don’t think ‘usurping authority’ is being in charge of a bake sale. Amen.... I agree that women certainly have roles in the body of Christ and can help the cause of the gospel through their spiritual gifting and/or by helping in practical ways. Remember that pastoring is a spiritual gift in itself though, so being a pastor's wife wouldn't qualify one to be a pastor regardless of how she is helping her husband. Well I’m using ‘pastor’ loosely to describe administrative/assistant pastors. Some churches use it as a job description. I don’t apply it to pastors in the spiritual sense.
|
|
|
Post by John on May 5, 2019 0:16:44 GMT -5
Amen.... I agree that women certainly have roles in the body of Christ and can help the cause of the gospel through their spiritual gifting and/or by helping in practical ways. Remember that pastoring is a spiritual gift in itself though, so being a pastor's wife wouldn't qualify one to be a pastor regardless of how she is helping her husband. Well I’m using ‘pastor’ loosely to describe administrative/assistant pastors. Some churches use it as a job description. I don’t apply it to pastors in the spiritual sense. In many churches, with the Pastor being a paid position, and most churches only having one Pastor that is the chief authority, they are basically serving as Pastor, Bishop, and Deacon. The church gets the most out of that paid position, and a woman doesn't qualify to hold those offices. At the same time, Pastor in the Bible is a ministry gift, and some churches have Associate Pastors, Children's Church Pastors, and perhaps even Pastors that are specialized to teach only men or women. It is possible for a woman to serve as Pastor in some capacity if she feels that is her calling, but she is not to run the church.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 8:05:08 GMT -5
I think things started to get confused when churches long ago became organizations instead of functioning as a spiritual Body. It led to a wrong concept. Most of us having only ever seen how churches function wrongly, have needed to have our minds renewed by the Lord and His word regarding the body of Christ.
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on May 5, 2019 11:06:53 GMT -5
I saw a large church that has a Stewardship Pastor.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on May 5, 2019 20:38:09 GMT -5
I saw a large church that has a Stewardship Pastor. Ya I find it kind of odd, with all these new titles coming along. It has become more of an organisation rather than just simply following the principals of the bible. And why do we even need all these extra specific titles, and yes God uses our gifts, and we do not need a title for our gifts to be used, but it seems in many cases that people just seem to want to feel more important through titles somehow, which really does nothing for people. Let us just humbly do our part, and I agree that Pastor's, Bishop's and so on are reserved towards men. 1Ti 3:2 (2) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not to say that a single man cannot be a pastor, such as Paul was, which Paul had a few offices: 2Ti 1:11 (11) Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on May 5, 2019 20:45:04 GMT -5
Now concerning a woman that cannot grow long hair for whatever reason (disease etc), and if she wants to wear a wig, I am all for that, and it may help her to feel more feminine, because of wearing a long haired wig, but also I know that most likely they would be wearing it so to have a semblance of long hair because they know God wants them to have long hair, and they want to please God.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on May 5, 2019 20:54:53 GMT -5
And I do understand, the views which are being presented here, which I am still holding on to the view I presented, because that is the way I really see it.
But I am glad that people did share their view on things, which at least we can know were each of us stand on this issue.
I am just glad that on some of the issues, there is some agreement.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on May 5, 2019 20:57:36 GMT -5
Let's be careful here brothers and sisters....where it was said that we have power with angels needs to be examined to see if that be so. There needs to be some further witness in scripture to that. To my understanding we may have power with God (so to speak) in prayer, but I don't see where we have power with angels. We pray to God alone, and He answers our prayers and sends angels to do His bidding as He sees fit. So can we please examine that part. I think it's correct that there is a scriptural/spiritual significance to hair, that I do agree with....but some of the rest I believe needs to be looked at more carefully. I will try to come back later on.....not able to give this my undivided attention right now....but if anyone knows of scriptures that show we have power with angels, I hope they will bring them and put my mind at ease on that. I must admit, you do say interesting things here.
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on May 5, 2019 21:44:14 GMT -5
I understand that I have presented a radical/unconventional view of this passage. It doesn’t hurt my feelings to say you’re skeptical. Really, this is God’s book for His word, so it isn’t my job to sell you on a argument. We should all obey to the best that we understand and not judge each other in the meantime.
|
|
|
Post by John on May 5, 2019 21:48:29 GMT -5
I understand that I have presented a radical/unconventional view of this passage. It doesn’t hurt my feelings to say you’re skeptical. Really, this is God’s book for His word, so it isn’t my job to sell you on a argument. We should all obey to the best that we understand and not judge each other in the meantime. I think that what you said is deserving of consideration. Radical and unconventional don't necessarily mean wrong.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on May 5, 2019 21:55:07 GMT -5
I understand that I have presented a radical/unconventional view of this passage. It doesn’t hurt my feelings to say you’re skeptical. Really, this is God’s book for His word, so it isn’t my job to sell you on a argument. We should all obey to the best that we understand and not judge each other in the meantime. Considering the power part that you mentioned, I found to be very interesting, and very well presented. Considering that part, I do not believe that I would have done a better job, not even close.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on May 6, 2019 10:14:55 GMT -5
This is not to argue, and if your view remains the same than it does.
1Co 11:5 (5) But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
Now in this case, the part that says "for that is even all one as if she were shaven", it is evident that this is not an action phrase, but rather a type of comparison with other parts of this verse, in the sense that, if a woman has short hair, there would be no difference between that, and her being shaven.
1Co 11:6 (6) For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
In this particular verse, there is no comparison made at all.
Now I know that some take the first part as saying, well she might as well be shaven, which they do not take Paul as meaning this literally.
Yet on the other hand, they will accept the second part, which says, let her be covered as being literally covered, whether it be with a wig, veil, whatever.
I can see why someone would take it this way, because it does not make sense to them, and even in this, at times, we have to be careful how we take things.
Sense can be important at times, but we should never use sense, in such a way, that you change the way things are written or phrased.
Both "Let her also be shorn", and "let her be covered", are written in the exact same way.
Both are action phrases.
And whether it makes sense to us or not, we have to allow it to say what it is saying.
And besides, in the way I see things, Paul rendered this custom, unnecessary anyhow.
There are many things that I do not yet understand in the word, yet I still seek to believe it anyway, and maybe somewhere down the road, the light bulb will go on, but even if it does not, I still want to seek to believe it.
A preacher once said, if the bible says Jonah swallowed the whale, than I will believe that.
|
|