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Post by John on Jul 24, 2019 10:48:33 GMT -5
This is a question asked by those pushing OSAS, and it is based on human logic. It is supposed to sound so silly to the hearer, they accept OSAS, but is it logical? Not really, unless the new birth itself is silly. When Jesus tried to explain being born again to Nicodemus, logic told him it made no sense. Can a man enter into his Mother's womb and be born a second time? Of course not, so if all we are using is logic, being born again once is preposterous. It is a spiritual thing. In theory, if God can allow you one new birth, he could do it a dozen times. I am not saying this is taking place, but just showing how the logic argument doesn't work.
Here is what I believe happens. God created every person that exists, and made us who we are. Everyone is called to salvation, but most will reject God's call. Some will accept it, but will fall away. Some will be in and out multiple times. If you come to Jesus in sincerity, you are saved. If you died in that instance, you would go to heaven, but chances are, unless this is a death bed confession, you will go on for a time. If you return to the world, and die in that condition, you would go to hell. If you repent and die while following Jesus, you would go to heaven, so in this life, a person can be saved and lost multiple times, but here is what people are missing. God knows the beginning from the end and who will die saved or lost. The elect are those who die while faithfully serving the Lord. It is about God's foreknowledge, not unconditional salvation. The elect are those the Father won't lose. Many of these OSAS believers who believe they are saved and entered into His rest are children of the devil and hell bound. That is why we are told to make our calling and election sure.
Am I saved today? Yes. Will I be saved at the end of this life? If I don't go back into sin. Am I born again? Yes. You can't see or enter the Kingdom of God unless you are. Is there scripture to support multiple new births? Yes, the prodigal son. You can't be a child of God unless you are born again. The prodigal is seen as a child of the Father starting out. He goes into sin for a time and eventually repents and returns to God the Father. His Father is very excited. Why? His son that was lost is found. His son that was dead is "alive again," more than one new birth. Before you are born again the first time, you are children of the devil, not God. Their argument based on human reasoning that you can only be born again once fails.
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Post by solid on Jul 24, 2019 11:03:12 GMT -5
That is interesting. I never thought about how just the single new birth defies logic, so why not more than one? I looked up the parable of the prodigal son and you are right. It says alive again, not just alive. Wow! Much to think about.
I was looking at a video George posted claiming being born again was a process, but that didn't feel right, It was like a 5 step process to salvation.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 24, 2019 11:04:31 GMT -5
To say we are born again, and to say we start as babes in Christ, these are not merely rhetorical metaphors. That first glimmer of spiritual life in us is very often fragile and outnumbered. We are very much a spiritual creature who is like a baby gasping for breath. The human mind/flesh will do nothing to nourish this spiritual baby. The baby Christian inside can spend years, maybe decades, in a dormant state of nearly being comatose. Unable to interact with the outside world or to speak up at all. Totally dominated and overruled by body members given to sin. unless the heart and mind are transformed to cooperate with the inner spirit, the inner spirit will remain in a state of baby like helplessness. if unbelief turns that person hard enough to oppose that inner spirit, the inner spirit may suffocate and die.
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Post by John on Jul 24, 2019 11:15:27 GMT -5
That is interesting. I never thought about how just the single new birth defies logic, so why not more than one? I looked up the parable of the prodigal son and you are right. It says alive again, not just alive. Wow! Much to think about. I was looking at a video George posted claiming being born again was a process, but that didn't feel right, It was like a 5 step process to salvation. Seriously? 5 steps to salvation? I need to look at that.
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Post by John on Jul 24, 2019 11:16:44 GMT -5
To say we are born again, and to say we start as babes in Christ, these are not merely rhetorical metaphors. That first glimmer of spiritual life in us is very often fragile and outnumbered. We are very much a spiritual creature who is like a baby gasping for breath. The human mind/flesh will do nothing to nourish this spiritual baby. The baby Christian inside can spend years, maybe decades, in a dormant state of nearly being comatose. Unable to interact with the outside world or to speak up at all. Totally dominated and overruled by body members given to sin. unless the heart and mind are transformed to cooperate with the inner spirit, the inner spirit will remain in a state of baby like helplessness. if unbelief turns that person hard enough to oppose that inner spirit, the inner spirit may suffocate and die. There is a lot of truth in that.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 24, 2019 11:23:56 GMT -5
I do not believe that the Bible uses parables or metaphors that are empty of any real significance. I believe righteous garments are actually the garments a spiritual creature wears. I believe the armor Paul spoke of in Ephesians is real spiritual armor. I do not believe any of this was said merely for dramatic affect. Somehow in a spiritual level or dimension, all of these metaphors are correlated to a real thing. I have never believed that God uses dishonest or empty talking points to make a point. He is telling us the very plain truth.
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Post by solid on Jul 24, 2019 11:28:00 GMT -5
That is interesting. I never thought about how just the single new birth defies logic, so why not more than one? I looked up the parable of the prodigal son and you are right. It says alive again, not just alive. Wow! Much to think about. I was looking at a video George posted claiming being born again was a process, but that didn't feel right, It was like a 5 step process to salvation. Seriously? 5 steps to salvation? I need to look at that.
To being born again. For some, it takes months and for others years. Where is the peace in that?
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Post by John on Jul 24, 2019 11:54:57 GMT -5
Seriously? 5 steps to salvation? I need to look at that.
To being born again. For some, it takes months and for others years. Where is the peace in that? If that is what they are saying, not much. If you can think you are saved and not be, there is no peace and rest in that.
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Post by John on Jul 24, 2019 11:57:17 GMT -5
On the same token, if you must wait months or years to be born again, and you die before hand, what then?
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 24, 2019 12:02:37 GMT -5
I’ve never understood how you could look at a Christian under assault trying to survive a battle, and to give them the answer “you were never saved.” Why can’t you hold on? Because you lied when you prayed… or something. Why are you discouraged? Because you pretended to pray for salvation, yeah that’s what happened. No, it isn’t that fear and discouragement are stifling you like Hebrew says, oh no, the problem is you pretended to get saved. How can you turn around your circumstance? Well, you can’t. Don’t try to fight back. Put it on the cross and hope for the best. Maybe Jesus will be nice and save you eventually.
Are they actually willing to apply this to young people praying for salvation in church? Will they look at a young person who stands up from the altar, tears wetting the face, and remind this young person he may or may not have really gotten saved? He won’t know for sure that God touched him until many decades from now when he starts growing some sort of fruit after a five-step process? The conviction he felt might not have been real? He might be deceiving himself? Are they willing to say that to a young person at the initial moment of conversion?
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Post by John on Jul 24, 2019 13:34:32 GMT -5
I found the video Solid spoke of, and one of the 5 steps toward being born again is trying to save ourselves, something we are repeatedly accused of doing. If I thought I could save myself, why pray a sinner's prayer to God and ask Jesus to save me? I can just save myself.
That is so stupid when you think about it and falsely accusing the brethren, but it does show their warped mindset. We are in a stage towards being born again called trying to save ourselves, and they are trying to pull us across the finish line to their god, OSAS. When we fully trust in OSAS, we are born again. People actually fall for that heresy, but then again, people get sucked into following the Jehovah's Witnesses and other cults, so why be surprised?
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 24, 2019 13:45:40 GMT -5
Can A Person Be Born Again Multiple Times?
I do not believe so.
“...Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” - Acts 2:38
“...the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” - Romans 11:29
I believe God does not make mistakes or keep re-giving gifts.
He gives you the gift, once, and you have the option to do whatever you wish with it.
“So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.” - Romans 14:12
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.” - John 14:15
Blessings!
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Dezi
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Post by Dezi on Jul 24, 2019 13:46:06 GMT -5
I never have understood the whole idea of "Well, you were never really saved"... well I sure thought I was back then.
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Post by solid on Jul 24, 2019 13:48:00 GMT -5
I found the video Solid spoke of, and one of the 5 steps toward being born again is trying to save ourselves, something we are repeatedly accused of doing. If I thought I could save myself, why pray a sinner's prayer to God and ask Jesus to save me? I can just save myself.
That is so stupid when you think about it and falsely accusing the brethren, but it does show their warped mindset. We are in a stage towards being born again called trying to save ourselves, and they are trying to pull us across the finish line to their god, OSAS. When we fully trust in OSAS, we are born again. People actually fall for that heresy, but then again, people get sucked into following the Jehovah's Witnesses and other cults, so why be surprised?
You found it? Good. I didn't think of it like that but you might be on to something about the trying to save self stage. I hope that is not what they are saying!
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 24, 2019 13:51:18 GMT -5
If you put doubt in people’s heads about whether they “really” met Jesus, you leave them to wonder if they can trust their experiences. That wasn’t conviction? That wasn’t a call to repentance? That wasn’t the hand of God touching me? Thus they end up thinking they will never know for sure what God’s voice sounds like. This diminishes their willingness to trust that same voice when He calls them again.
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