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Post by John on Aug 23, 2019 7:32:39 GMT -5
First of all, there was no comma in the original. Punctuation was added, and even with the comma being there, that doesn't mean that some did not speak in tongues because of the comma. What I said does not disagree with any scripture. As I stated, this is not the same thing as the gift of tongues. It is a prayer language. It is not the same thing at all. The way I read it, all means all. What I see you doing is trying to find a way to make the plain meaning of the text read in a way that agrees with your beliefs. That is man-made doctrine. I am sorry, but I just do not agree with you.
Hmmm, I'm not sure my posts are being treated entirely fairly brother. There is no point in arguing any further when half of what I say is not being heard. I will just encourage all to read the scriptures concerning this topic with fresh eyes. We tend to want to put God in a box sometimes, but the Spirit can't be confined, He just does as He wills. And I believe there can be variables on our side of the equation as well, and that's why the Lord will often use the element of surprise to overwhelm our defenses and walls. Most people probably came into this thread with their mind made up in advance, so to persuade those people they are wrong will be difficult, if not impossible. Based on some of the things I was reading, I don't believe some read my explanation for why I believe what I do before I was accused of being willfully ignorant and holding to doctrines of men. We should stop with the accusations and look at why both sides believe what they do. Is it Bible based? Is it tradition based? Is it experience based? Give everyone a fair hearing.
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 23, 2019 8:46:45 GMT -5
This topic always leads to an argument.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 23, 2019 9:09:07 GMT -5
This topic always leads to an argument. Yes it do . Remember SHHH about the other thing or I will have to write , YES IT DOES instead . You are loved dear sister . But I thought this was all behind us already . No one is saying anyone is not saved or etc . And to be honest we really don't have time to begin with the strife . The wolf is at the door and we better be ready in JESUS for all out battle to contend for the true faith .
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 23, 2019 9:24:29 GMT -5
If they didn't speak in tongues, they need to keep seeking till they receive because they are missing out on the fulness of the Spirit. frienduff John PG4Him
That is the problem with forcing people to pursue the gift of tongues (which is mistakenly equated by many as the baptism with the Holy Spirit).
There are terrible doctrines that will say people are not saved until they speak with tongues, which is an absurd.
As a result, those who seek even without willing to speak in tongues are heavily frustrated and they are negatively impacted spiritually.
You people should see this situation with more love.
If you were really interested in seeking the truth about this matter you would do that, but most people are simply narrow minded.
I would not doubt there are people who even believe that those who do not speak tongues are false prophets (what a lack of discernment, may the Lord have mercy).
And I will add, you people still willfully ignore my testimony that I was supernaturally told by the Lord that:
I am baptized with the Holy Spirit.
It was not me that said. I decided to do that after being constantly encouraged to pursue something I did not desire.
“But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.” - 1 Corinthians 12:31
Do not try to force people to pursue the gifts you have or to manifest what you can. It is not how it works.
It is like someone who walked on water when being saved and they expect people to walk on water as well as a proof of their experience.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 23, 2019 9:36:48 GMT -5
If they didn't speak in tongues, they need to keep seeking till they receive because they are missing out on the fulness of the Spirit. frienduff John PG4Him
That is the problem with forcing people to pursue the gift of tongues (which is mistakenly equated by many as the baptism with the Holy Spirit).
There are terrible doctrines that will say people are not saved until they speak with tongues, which is an absurd.
As a result, those who seek even without willing to speak in tongues are heavily frustrated and they are negatively impacted spiritually.
You people should see this situation with more love.
If you were really interested in seeking the truth about this matter you would do that, but most people are simply narrow minded.
I would not doubt there are people who even believe that those who do not speak tongues are false prophets (what a lack of discernment, may the Lord have mercy).
And I will add, you people still willfully ignore my testimony that I was supernaturally told by the Lord that:
I am baptized with the Holy Spirit.
It was not me that said. I decided to do that after being constantly encouraged to pursue something I did not desire.
“But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.” - 1 Corinthians 12:31
Do not try to force people to pursue the gifts you have or to manifest what you can. It is not how it works.
It is like someone who walked on water when being saved and they expect people to walk on water as well as a proof of their experience. Letters you be encouraged my friend . And I want you to rebuke me the next time I FORCE you to seek tongues or say you are not saved if you have not spoke in tongues. Be sure and watch me real closely now . If you see me saying others or you are not saved because you have not spoken in tongues , YOU rebuke me before all IF I say or imply LETTERS you BETTER SPEAK with tongues , WHEN I KNOW NOT ALL DO , then rebuke me before all . But in the meantime , since I never have said this , JUST HAVE PEACE my brother , just have peace and don't get so worked up about this . I Don't look for tongues as evidence of anyones salvation , I LOOK AT THEIR FRUITS . THAT WILL TELL ME EXACTLY WHAT TREE they are TRULY OF . For even paul who said I am glad that I speak with tongues more than ye all And even paul who had by grace also spread the gospel more than all SAID THIS , Yet if I keep not my body UNDER subjection , that even after he had preached the gospel to so many , HE TOO WILL BE A CASTAWAY . Sounds like we better endure faithful to JESUS and ensure the fruits in others and ourselves , BESS BE GOOD FRUIT . and the fruit of the wicked is .......TO SIN . SO LET all continuously exhort against the dangers of sin and let all continuously exhort to be doing good to be IN OBEDIANCE UNDER CHRIST , IN THE SPIRIT . For many today might be speaking in tongues , BUT MY QUESTION IS and my concern is , WHAT do their FRUITS SHOW . THAT is what matters . Are we following CHRIST or are we following THE FLESH . THAT is what matters . DO we and are we servants of SIN , or are we servants of CHRIST of RIGHTEOUSNESS . THAT is what matters .
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Post by John on Aug 23, 2019 9:38:40 GMT -5
I really don't have anything else to add. The second post in this thread states my beliefs on this topic.
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Post by solid on Aug 23, 2019 17:42:10 GMT -5
This topic always leads to an argument. There are hot button issues in every forum.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 23, 2019 19:27:45 GMT -5
This topic always leads to an argument. There are hot button issues in every forum. And this one can easily be solved . we have even solved it before . Its just every now and again it resurfaces . When in truth we have no need to keep rehashing it . Time to get busy with the exhortations that build up and prepare the body . We got a total collapse of about all morals , total decay , total deception , And we need to be being prepared and exhorting to continue in the faith and sounding out those pure exhortations . Hands up , SOLID , HANDS UP and praise the LORD .
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 20:01:33 GMT -5
If they didn't speak in tongues, they need to keep seeking till they receive because they are missing out on the fulness of the Spirit. frienduff John PG4Him
That is the problem with forcing people to pursue the gift of tongues (which is mistakenly equated by many as the baptism with the Holy Spirit).
There are terrible doctrines that will say people are not saved until they speak with tongues, which is an absurd.
As a result, those who seek even without willing to speak in tongues are heavily frustrated and they are negatively impacted spiritually.
You people should see this situation with more love.
If you were really interested in seeking the truth about this matter you would do that, but most people are simply narrow minded.
I would not doubt there are people who even believe that those who do not speak tongues are false prophets (what a lack of discernment, may the Lord have mercy).
And I will add, you people still willfully ignore my testimony that I was supernaturally told by the Lord that:
I am baptized with the Holy Spirit.
It was not me that said. I decided to do that after being constantly encouraged to pursue something I did not desire.
“But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.” - 1 Corinthians 12:31
Do not try to force people to pursue the gifts you have or to manifest what you can. It is not how it works.
It is like someone who walked on water when being saved and they expect people to walk on water as well as a proof of their experience. Amen. Yes, I agree it is false doctrine and does a lot of damage in the body of Christ. Bless you and be encouraged in the Lord.
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Post by John on Aug 24, 2019 18:48:38 GMT -5
frienduff John PG4Him That is the problem with forcing people to pursue the gift of tongues (which is mistakenly equated by many as the baptism with the Holy Spirit). There are terrible doctrines that will say people are not saved until they speak with tongues, which is an absurd. As a result, those who seek even without willing to speak in tongues are heavily frustrated and they are negatively impacted spiritually. You people should see this situation with more love. If you were really interested in seeking the truth about this matter you would do that, but most people are simply narrow minded. I would not doubt there are people who even believe that those who do not speak tongues are false prophets (what a lack of discernment, may the Lord have mercy). And I will add, you people still willfully ignore my testimony that I was supernaturally told by the Lord that: I am baptized with the Holy Spirit. It was not me that said. I decided to do that after being constantly encouraged to pursue something I did not desire. “But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.” - 1 Corinthians 12:31 Do not try to force people to pursue the gifts you have or to manifest what you can. It is not how it works. It is like someone who walked on water when being saved and they expect people to walk on water as well as a proof of their experience. Amen. Yes, I agree it is false doctrine and does a lot of damage in the body of Christ. Bless you and be encouraged in the Lord. And I believe that saying that the initial evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Ghost is not speaking in tongues is false doctrine and doing a lot of damage to the body of Christ. It needs to be known that simply calling something false doctrine does not make it so.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 24, 2019 19:01:23 GMT -5
And I believe that saying that the initial evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Ghost is not speaking in tongues is false doctrine and doing a lot of damage to the body of Christ. No, it does not.
Because this false talk of tongues has created a sect inside the church, those who speak despise those who do not.
And those who do not speak are led to believe they are an inferior type of Christian that failed to seek or ask from the Lord.
Why your whole church speak tongues?! Because you probably have caused all those who do not to leave.
The truth is that the baptism with the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with tongues.
It is a baptism that occurs when someone is made born of the Spirit (so the name baptism).
The evidence of the baptism with the Holy Spirit is a complete change of life and renewed mind, that is what it actually does.
“There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh,
but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ...” - 1 Peter 3:21
And I can say the Lord said to me that I am baptized with the Holy Spirit and I did not manifested tongues.
Can you make a contrary claim without lying?! I do not think so.
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Post by John on Aug 24, 2019 19:17:30 GMT -5
I am locking this thread and letting 2fw8212a have the final word.
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