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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 21, 2019 15:54:11 GMT -5
You do not speak with tongues, you are not baptized, they say. And I answer: They are mistaken. I am baptized with the Holy Spirit and do not speak with tongues. And my doubts about this ended when I asked a confirmation from the Lord Himself. He answered me and said: You are baptized with the Holy Spirit. And I say this because, in my view, it is causing problems in the church. Because those who do not speak with tongues are sometimes seen or treated as an inferior type of Christian. And I would even say some of them are discouraged in their walk, and as a result their spiritual growth is negatively impacted. And in some churches, those who do not speak with tongues are not accepted to do certain tasks because they think they are not baptized with the Holy Spirit. There are some who say: But if you are not baptized with the Holy Spirit (and in their view, do not speak with tongues), you cannot overcome the flesh. And I answer: They are mistaken. I do not speak with tongues, and I have overcome the flesh. To the point of despising porn, masturbation, sex, and many other things. Not that I am saying that sex is wrong, it is just that it does not dominate me anymore (at all). “But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you...” - Romans 8:9 “But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead
will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.” - Romans 8:11There are some who say: But if you are not baptized with the Holy Spirit (and in their view, do not speak with tongues), you do not have any gift. And I answer: They are mistaken. I do not speak with tongues, and I have been manifesting gifts of the Holy Spirit. “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also;
and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.” - John 14:12 “...you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you...” - Acts 1:8
There are some who say: But if you are not baptized with the Holy Spirit (and in their view, do not speak with tongues), you did not feel how good it is the Holy Spirit flowing in you. And I answer: They are mistaken. I have been experiencing feelings I never did before coming to the knowledge of Christ. When it happens, if I am tempted to sin, the temptation simply vanishes and I overcome all negative feelings. “Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.” - Acts 2:3 “...He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” - Matthew 3:12There are some who say:
Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a different experience that not all will all experience.
And I answer:
This is not true. All who are saved will be baptized by the Holy Spirit, as it is written:
“for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit...” - Acts 1:5
And there is only ONE baptism, as it is written:
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body...” - 1 Corinthians 12:13
“There is one body and one Spirit,
just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism...” - Ephesians 4:4-5
Then what the baptism with the Holy Spirit really is?!
“When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God,
saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.” - Acts 11:18
“...when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth...” - John 16:13
“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins...” - Ephesians 2:1
Then, you will tell me: Why tongues are for then? “Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers...” - 1 Corinthians 14:22There are people that will never believe they were baptized with the Holy Spirit if they do not speak with tongues. Indeed, there may be people that will constantly doubt their salvation if they do not speak with tongues regularly. Signs are also good for edification, this is true. But there are many other signs other than tongues.
And what is the biggest sign that someone was truly baptized with the Holy Spirit? “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels,
but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.” - 1 Corinthians 13:1 “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love...” - 1 Corinthians 13:1 “...it profits me nothing.” - 1 Corinthians 13:3 “He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.” - 1 John 2:6 “Therefore by their fruits you will know them.” - Matthew 7:20Unfortunately, because of lack of discernment many people who are baptized with the Holy Spirit and do not speak with tongues are being treated as something inferior in many churches. And there are some who indeed believe that they cannot heal the sick, they cannot overcome the flesh, without speaking with tongues. But I tell you: They can, they truly can... If they just believe. “Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers...” - 1 Corinthians 14:22 “...If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.” - Mark 9:23But if you are still doubting you were baptized with the Holy Spirit and do not want to speak with tongues, ask a confirmation from the Lord. He will surely answer you as He did to me. There are people who like to talk, there are others who don't. And why would the Holy Spirit manifest something you do not want or give you a gift that you will not use?! And if it were indeed true that all who are baptized with the Holy Spirit must speak with tongues, they how would the tongueless receive it?! “Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened,
That it cannot save; Nor His ear heavy, That it cannot hear.” - Isaiah 59:1 “...For the Lord does not see as man sees;
for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.” - 1 Samuel 16:7 “...you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you...” - Acts 1:8 “Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions,
and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.” - Luke 10:19Then we can make the following conclusion: No, not all who are baptized with the Holy Spirit will manifest tongues or receive the gift of tongues. “I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied;
for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets...” - 1 Corinthians 14:5 “...he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.” - 1 Corinthians 14:3 “He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.” - 1 Corinthians 14:4And if after all this I have written you are still doubting that people can be baptized with the Holy Spirit and yet not speak with tongues, that this may serve as a sign to you, as it is written: “Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
And He who formed you from the womb...” - Isaiah 44:24 “Who confirms the word of His servant,
And performs the counsel of His messengers...” - Isaiah 44:26If what I speak is true, then while reading the message below you will experience a feeling running around you whole body.
Feel it!
Feel it!
Feel it!
Feel it!
Feel it, Feel it, Feel it! By this you will know the Lord is confirming to you the word I have spoken. Blessings to you in Jesus' name! |
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Post by John on Aug 21, 2019 16:27:17 GMT -5
There is a lot of misunderstanding about the baptism of the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues. I want to try to address this from the Bible and from my understanding as a Pentecostal Pastor. I was Pastor of a Pentecostal Holiness Church, and am very familiar with what the Bible teaches and what Pentecostals and charismatic churches teach. These two groups are not exactly the same, as Apostolic churches also differ in certain areas. I am not concerned with explaining the differences so much as just showing what the Bible has to say. Let's begin with the words of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me because I go to the Father. John 16:7-16
Jesus considered the Baptism of the Holy Ghost of great importance. It was not some after thought or something that was of little value compared to everything else.
And being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1:4-8
Once again, Jesus places great emphasis on the Baptism in the Holy Ghost. Before I continue, every born again Christian has a measure of the Spirit, or they wouldn't belong to Christ, but not every Christian has received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Let's move on.
AND when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:1-4
Before we continue, notice a couple of things. First of all, they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues. It was not just some of them that spoke in tongues, but all of them. This event occurred while they were in the upper room, and they all spoke the same language, so they didn't need to speak in other tongues in the upper room to be understood. As a matter of fact, they wouldn't understand other tongues. If this was only for some and only so people of other languages could understand, why would they need to all speak with other tongues while in the upper room?
Apparently, they leave the upper room and go out into the streets, and are still speaking in tongues. As a result, people heard them speaking in different languages. At the time, there were people gathered there from "every nation under heaven" and they heard these men speak "in our own tongue, wherein we were born." They were speaking in real languages, but not ones they had ever learned. The Spirit was speaking through them. What were they speaking? "The wonderful works of God." I am not convinced they were preaching a sermon or anything close to that. They were likely praising God in words they didn't understand, but the people gathered there did. Speaking in tongues was an initial evidence they had received the Holy Spirit, and they were not the only people to experience this.
In Acts Chapter 10, Peter went to the house of a gentile named Cornelius to preach the gospel to him and his family. Notice what it says happened after they believed and got saved. Verses 44-48
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Notice that the Holy Ghost fell on all of them which heard the word, not some of them. The Apostles recognized they had been filled because of the initial evidence of speaking in tongues. Once again, this is not the final example we have that speaking in tongues is the initial evidence. We are given a third example. In Acts chapter 19, the Apostles encountered people that believed because of John the Baptist and had received water baptism, but not the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Notice what it says in verse 2-6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them; the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
It wasn't just a few that spoke in tongues, but all of them as an initial evidence. I would also point out that Simon the sorcerer saw this taking place, and desired the ability to lay hands on people to where they would receive the Holy Ghost. There had to be some kind of evidence people were receiving or he wouldn't try to purchase this ability with money. It is separate from the salvation experience. It is also different from the gift of the Spirit of speaking in tongues. The Holy Ghost himself is a gift from God, but the Holy spirit will then give additional gifts to Christians to use for God's purposes. One is called the gift of tongues and there is also the gift of interpretation of tongues. The Bible speaks of that in Corinthians, and gives certain guidelines for using these gifts so people won't do things that are disruptive and out of order. If a person speaks in tongues, to be in order, there must be an interpretation given. The question came up about all the people speaking in tongues that don't interpret. In Pentecostal churches, the people do not sit quietly while one person prays a prayer for all, but everyone prays in their own words at the same time, and sometimes that is in tongues. These prayers are personal and don't require an interpretation, and are not out of order or disruptive. There is no reason to sit around trying to judge if they are praying in a real language. That is between them and God. We have reason to judge doctrine, not individual's prayer language.
I want to address something else. There are tongues of angels, as Paul mentions them. In 1 Corinthians 13:1, it says, "THOUGH I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal." Paul says in chapter 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." This is the prayer language we receive when we are baptized in the Holy Ghost. That is different from the gift of tongues. In 1 Corinthians 14:3,4, Paul says "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and comfort. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church." They are two different things. Paul did not make light of prayer tongues. In chapter 14:18,19 he says, "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue." Jesus didn't make light of tongues and neither did Paul. Paul is speaking of doing things in an orderly manner. That is all.
As far as being slain in the Spirit goes, I have experienced this many times and have prayed for at least one person that was slain in the Spirit. If you have never experienced it, you wouldn't understand. This is nothing more than going into a trance like state for a time while the Spirit of God ministers to you. Trances are in the Bible. Peter went into a trance and saw a vision that led to him going to preach to Cornelius and his household.
Are there things taking place in the church world that are not from God? Of course there is. I am aware of the church where someone was wearing a dog collar and chain and saying that "where he is I will follow." That was nothing more than flesh. It was a type of word picture. An example like that hardly compares with someone being under the power of God so strong they fall into a trance. I have heard of people rolling on the floor, which led to the name, "holy rollers," but I have never seen or experienced this. I have heard of many different things taking place in charismatic and Pentecostal churches that are questionable, but it is my position that every person that receives the baptism in the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues when they are initially filled, and there are numerous examples of this in Acts as I have already shown. I pray in tongues on a regular basis. It is really nobody's place to judge whether it is real or not. I am very careful about judging any potential manifestation of the Spirit. I might question some things within myself, but it has to be completely unbiblical for me to openly attack it.
I am sure this will lead to questions, or I expect it will. Feel free. I will do my best to answer them, but I think I have pretty well made my position clear as to what I believe.
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Cletus
Senior Member
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Post by Cletus on Aug 21, 2019 17:41:17 GMT -5
didnt paul say something about he would rather we prophecy than speak in tongues? because that gift is greater because it edifies while tongues does not unless one interprets? in my church more than one interprets. so far not me. but also in my church more than one have spoken in the prophetic. so Cletus would rather you prophecy too. it is greater.
and even more than that... to have love. So even if you do not speak in the prophetic... there is something greater.
and Letters, ya know i love you man, and i got to say it. You already know what others say, as you have written it and read it a time or two. they probably wont change their mind unless God changes it for them. and we all know this is a sensitive subject for you. I do not want to see you frustrated or upset or hurt. So please, if you notice your feathers getting ruffled... step back... let it go... No one here is saying you're not saved. No one is trying to judge you. You made the thread, so no one is trying to accuse you.
love you bro.
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Post by John on Aug 21, 2019 18:06:02 GMT -5
didnt paul say something about he would rather we prophecy than speak in tongues? because that gift is greater because it edifies while tongues does not unless one interprets? in my church more than one interprets. so far not me. but also in my church more than one have spoken in the prophetic. so Cletus would rather you prophecy too. it is greater. and even more than that... to have love. So even if you do not speak in the prophetic... there is something greater. and Letters, ya know i love you man, and i got to say it. You already know what others say, as you have written it and read it a time or two. they probably wont change their mind unless God changes it for them. and we all know this is a sensitive subject for you. I do not want to see you frustrated or upset or hurt. So please, if you notice your feathers getting ruffled... step back... let it go... No one here is saying you're not saved. No one is trying to judge you. You made the thread, so no one is trying to accuse you. love you bro.
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Post by John on Aug 21, 2019 18:18:50 GMT -5
Another thing I want to add. I have never questioned Letter's spiritual gifts or calling. The only ones I know of that went through the New Testament in a week because he said we would be blessed if we did so was Frienduff and myself. I don't know of anyone else that followed what he said about doing something different every night for a week and praying about it first to receive a blessing, except me. If anyone else did, they didn't mention it. I think my actions have shown that I am not discounting his prophetic gift, and I have not been going around accusing him of not having the Baptism of the Holy Ghost or being second class or anything like that. Others might be in his church or other places, but I haven't done that.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Aug 21, 2019 22:19:21 GMT -5
Another thing I want to add. I have never questioned Letter's spiritual gifts or calling. The only ones I know of that went through the New Testament in a week because he said we would be blessed if we did so was Frienduff and myself. I don't know of anyone else that followed what he said about doing something different every night for a week and praying about it first to receive a blessing, except me. If anyone else did, they didn't mention it. I think my actions have shown that I am not discounting his prophetic gift, and I have not been going around accusing him of not having the Baptism of the Holy Ghost or being second class or anything like that. Others might be in his church or other places, but I haven't done that.
i was not accusing anyone of saying that they were saying that... i was just encouraging letters to keep in the back of his mind how these threads have gone before. and i do not want to see him get in a slump and there be discord among us due to differences in what each person says, and then all the mods and admins try to put humpty dumpty back together again. recognize the pattern and lets not go down a road where its trouble.
honestly if its going/even might be a problem, and since this really is not a salvation issue i am choosing to remain silent. and i was really just trying to keep the peace. i do not want Letters to think he is being singled out or treated indifferent or unfairly. I think Letters knows these things now, and he has shown self restraint in other threads which is a sign of growth and maturity, i just dont want there to be a stumbling block or an occasion for offense. and i am only saying this to be fair to both sides because there is one scripture that makes me say i do not really know for sure which side is right scripturaly. and how you say you are right, i think i am right, and so does Letters. All i can really say i know for sure is how God has done with me. which ever position is correct... neither preach a false Jesus or pervert the gospel, so my goal here is peace. thats all i want, and thats all i ask for. Let the God of Peace reign. anything else isnt worth it to me.
edit: i was not trying to single anyone out by anything i have said in this thread. If it came across that way... my sincere apologies.
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Post by John on Aug 22, 2019 4:55:32 GMT -5
Another thing I want to add. I have never questioned Letter's spiritual gifts or calling. The only ones I know of that went through the New Testament in a week because he said we would be blessed if we did so was Frienduff and myself. I don't know of anyone else that followed what he said about doing something different every night for a week and praying about it first to receive a blessing, except me. If anyone else did, they didn't mention it. I think my actions have shown that I am not discounting his prophetic gift, and I have not been going around accusing him of not having the Baptism of the Holy Ghost or being second class or anything like that. Others might be in his church or other places, but I haven't done that.
i was not accusing anyone of saying that they were saying that... i was just encouraging letters to keep in the back of his mind how these threads have gone before. and i do not want to see him get in a slump and there be discord among us due to differences in what each person says, and then all the mods and admins try to put humpty dumpty back together again. recognize the pattern and lets not go down a road where its trouble.
honestly if its going/even might be a problem, and since this really is not a salvation issue i am choosing to remain silent. and i was really just trying to keep the peace. i do not want Letters to think he is being singled out or treated indifferent or unfairly. I think Letters knows these things now, and he has shown self restraint in other threads which is a sign of growth and maturity, i just dont want there to be a stumbling block or an occasion for offense. and i am only saying this to be fair to both sides because there is one scripture that makes me say i do not really know for sure which side is right scripturaly. and how you say you are right, i think i am right, and so does Letters. All i can really say i know for sure is how God has done with me. which ever position is correct... neither preach a false Jesus or pervert the gospel, so my goal here is peace. thats all i want, and thats all i ask for. Let the God of Peace reign. anything else isnt worth it to me.
edit: i was not trying to single anyone out by anything i have said in this thread. If it came across that way... my sincere apologies.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 22, 2019 7:15:40 GMT -5
While it is true that in every case in the bible when one received the baptism it says they spoke with tongues
I don't think anyone can say one hundred percent this is the case every time .
But this I can say , IF even paul , who did speak with tongues more than all SAID , yet if I keep not my body under subjection
I too shall be a castaway , the truth is we must look at the fruits of a person .
Examine that doctrine closely , watch their actions as well . For many can teach do this or that , AND YET be not doing it themselves .
Prosphey by the SPIRIT is greater , and tongues and the intpreation of it , IS VERY GREAT . But if a man speaks with tongues and yet
their is no interpretation then the church itself is not edfied . Oh but if there is an interpreter now that is A HUGE blessing indeed .
And remember TEST all prophesies , even the ones given in tongues . For many of the prophecies and or interpreations I am hearing today
SURE ARE contradicting the original pattern . WHICH MEANS WHAT , ITS NOT GOD , the SPIRIT doing the leading on any of that .
an example , OH GOD is calling us to unity with all denominations oh Daddy papa pops God etc etc etc . NO and a double no .
IF a man comes prophesying that which is contrary , NO GOOD will come of that .
God is not calling us to unity WITH any who partakes of the tables of devils . THAT UNITY is not FROM GOD , But rather another who says I SHALL BE AS
I shall exalt my throne above the stars and so on . And it is making a kingdom of the entire world ready for the Christ called anti .
If any unity fellowship does not line up identical with the original , and the original did say that if any brother or sister is a ...........
don't even eat with such a one , THEN ITS THE WRONG UNITY MAN . For true unity would never sit under what divides spiritually but unites physically .
Take that to the bank of truth and cash it in . For many are following a wrong version of unity and thus correction and sharpness will only leave off
and senses will only become duller and duller , until they simply wax as bad as the others who are now even uniting with other religions .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 9:49:27 GMT -5
Scripture doesn't have a rule about being filled with the Holy Spirit....rather it says the Spirit blows where it willeth and apportions gifts as He willeth.
Where it says in scripture that when the Holy Spirit came upon a group of believers that they spoke in tongues and prophesied, it is talking about the group as a whole, rather than each and every believer in the group necessarily.
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Post by John on Aug 22, 2019 9:52:34 GMT -5
Scripture doesn't have a rule about being filled with the Holy Spirit....rather it says the Spirit blows where it willeth and apportions gifts as He willeth. Where it says in scripture that when the Holy Spirit came upon a group of believers that they spoke in tongues and prophesied, it is talking about the group as a whole, rather than each and every believer in the group necessarily.
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Post by John on Aug 22, 2019 10:10:02 GMT -5
Acts 2:3,4 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
The way I read this, every single one of them spoke in tongues. The cloven tongues sat on each of them, and they were all filled and spoke in tongues. I don't see any other way to take it.
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Post by solid on Aug 22, 2019 15:26:30 GMT -5
Acts 2:3,4 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
The way I read this, every single one of them spoke in tongues. The cloven tongues sat on each of them, and they were all filled and spoke in tongues. I don't see any other way to take it.
In that case, I agree. It says they all spoke in tongues. |
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Post by John on Aug 22, 2019 16:43:31 GMT -5
Acts 2:3,4 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
The way I read this, every single one of them spoke in tongues. The cloven tongues sat on each of them, and they were all filled and spoke in tongues. I don't see any other way to take it.
In that case, I agree. It says they all spoke in tongues.
We have an interesting situation here where someone didn't want to speak in tongues. The question is, can you receive the baptism in the Holy Ghost anyway? I am not going to argue with anyone about their own personal experience. If Letters or anyone else tells me they are baptized in the Holy Ghost, that is between them and the Lord. That doesn't change my belief about the initial evidence.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 18:18:08 GMT -5
Scripture doesn't have a rule about being filled with the Holy Spirit....rather it says the Spirit blows where it willeth and apportions gifts as He willeth. Where it says in scripture that when the Holy Spirit came upon a group of believers that they spoke in tongues and prophesied, it is talking about the group as a whole, rather than each and every believer in the group necessarily.
The language of scripture sometimes follows certain patterns of expression, and that is one of them as the Lord was gracious to show me. I think we have gone over these scriptures before, but just as a reminder: 1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 1Co 12:29-30 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? Act 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Going by this, why do those who say the giving of the Holy Spirit needs to have evidence of tongues not include prophesying as also being necessary? But since it is understood that prophesying here doesn't necessarily involve each and every individual in the group, why is it only interpreted that each and every individual in the group here spoke in tongues? |
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Post by John on Aug 22, 2019 18:22:26 GMT -5
What you just said is speculation.
The language of scripture sometimes follows certain patterns of expression, and that is one of them as the Lord was gracious to show me. I think we have gone over these scriptures before, but just as a reminder: 1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 1Co 12:29-30 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? Act 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Going by this, why do those who say the giving of the Holy Spirit needs to have evidence of tongues not include prophesying as also being necessary? But since it is understood that prophesying here doesn't necessarily involve each and every individual in the group, why is it only interpreted that each and every individual in the group here spoke in tongues?
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