Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jan 9, 2020 18:03:50 GMT -5
Mat 26:33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended. Mat 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Here Jesus told Peter he would deny Him 3 times.
after this departure of Peter and The LORD is there another time Peter saw or spoke to Jesus inbetween the above scripture and this scripture:
Joh 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. Joh 21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. Joh 21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
Three times Jesus asked him lovest thou Me. do you think there is a connection to this? we Know Jesus can restore us, heal and deliver us... we also know when the woman was caught in the act of adultery He asked where are your accusers... and then he said... neither do i accuse you go an sin no more. its not like God to accuse or condemn us. Is there any correlation between simon denying Jesus three times and Jesus asking peter lovest thou me three times? I believe the mercy and love of God is really shinning here and wanted to open this up for discussion, particularly about the goodness of The LORD to us. Any thoughts you have concerning these scriptures or anything that relates i would encourage you to share it, even if you think it does not relate... just type it up.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jan 9, 2020 18:05:32 GMT -5
there is no wrong answer.
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Post by John on Jan 9, 2020 18:27:36 GMT -5
In regard to the woman caught in the act of adultery, it was a little more complicated than just a situation where Jesus chose not to condemn her. The religious crowd brought her before Jesus in an attempt to bring the Lord up on charges to the Roman government or to get him in trouble with the people for standing against the Law of Moses. He seemed to be in a no win situation. Tell the people to stone her, and be brought up on charges. Tell them to let her go, and look like he was opposing Moses.
In order to condemn a person to death, there had to be two or more witnesses to the crime, so once all of the witnesses left, and Jesus was left alone with the woman, she couldn't be condemned to death. She was given a second chance. I tend to look at this as an example of the wisdom Jesus had, in addition to forgiving her with the condition that she go and sin no more.
As far as Peter goes, I see several things here. First, Jesus knew what Peter would do, and Peter was going to deny the Lord three times whether he believed he would or not. I see Peter seeing himself as stronger than he was, and making boasts he shouldn't have. I see him walking away sorrowful. I see him as a chosen vessel, that even though he would fall, he would be restored, and Jesus would even tell Peter how he was going to die for his faith. There are a lot of things we can talk about in regard to these stories, probably more than I mentioned if we carefully examine the text. These are just things that come to my mind from memory of having read the stories.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jan 10, 2020 2:27:14 GMT -5
In regard to the woman caught in the act of adultery, it was a little more complicated than just a situation where Jesus chose not to condemn her. The religious crowd brought her before Jesus in an attempt to bring the Lord up on charges to the Roman government or to get him in trouble with the people for standing against the Law of Moses. He seemed to be in a no win situation. Tell the people to stone her, and be brought up on charges. Tell them to let her go, and look like he was opposing Moses.
In order to condemn a person to death, there had to be two or more witnesses to the crime, so once all of the witnesses left, and Jesus was left alone with the woman, she couldn't be condemned to death. She was given a second chance. I tend to look at this as an example of the wisdom Jesus had, in addition to forgiving her with the condition that she go and sin no more.
As far as Peter goes, I see several things here. First, Jesus knew what Peter would do, and Peter was going to deny the Lord three times whether he believed he would or not. I see Peter seeing himself as stronger than he was, and making boasts he shouldn't have. I see him walking away sorrowful. I see him as a chosen vessel, that even though he would fall, he would be restored, and Jesus would even tell Peter how he was going to die for his faith. There are a lot of things we can talk about in regard to these stories, probably more than I mentioned if we carefully examine the text. These are just things that come to my mind from memory of having read the stories.
my hope is that lots of things do come out here.
judas was sorrowful too, he tried to return the silver. didnt seem to amount to nothing. yes for sure judas was prophesied about... but the main thing i want to look at, i am open to whatever tho, is the part you mentioned about being restored. do you think there is something with Peter denying Jesus three times and then Jesus asking Him if he Loved Him three times? and do you know of one instance in scripture that shows when peter had denied Jesus ... from that moment did peter encounter/see /talk to Jesus even once until the meeting in the second passage? i cant point to any for certain. to me this holds significance if its the next meeting.
in response to what your saying about the woman caught in the act... of course there is a condition... of course, more on that in a few ticks. I am not really looking at the wisdom part or the part where the scribes and pharisees wanted to be able to accuse Jesus. I am looking at the part where He said... He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. In this statement there was only One standing there He could have possibly been referring to. He was not the first one to cast a stone. I dont believe He wanted to accuse her or stone her. The condition allows the opportunity for life for the woman so of course the condition is there.
really what i am looking at is the behavior of God, and what it means to us. what it means on how He LORDS/Fathers over us.
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Post by John on Jan 10, 2020 3:27:46 GMT -5
In the case of Peter, it comes across to me like Peter gave a hasty answer, without having put a lot of thought into it the first time. Jesus asked him if he loved him, and Peter quickly says that he did, and did this twice. After Jesus asked him the third time, it is like he was forced to really think about how he really felt before he answered. It is like, Jesus wanted him to really consider if this were true before blurting out a quick response, and when Peter said what he did the third time, there was no question that he really loved Jesus.
In the instance where Peter had boasted about being willing to die for Jesus, it came across like this was done with no real thought, and like he was boasting. Jesus told Peter that he would deny him three times. He had not really considered what it would be like when he was put on the spot and defending Jesus would cost him his life. When push came to shove, Peter was too weak to stand. This time, Jesus tells Peter that he will indeed lay down his life for him, that he will die for his faith. He will not fail this time around. Is there anything significant about three times? Maybe, in that it took that many times for him to really see his heart condition.
As for the woman caught in adultery, this is the only time we see her. There was not a long term, and close relationship between her and Jesus that we know of. She was just a woman dragged before him. I agree that Jesus did not seem like he wanted to accuse or condemn her. There is a sort of mystery here regarding Jesus' relationship with certain individuals. He knows the real people we are, not just who we appear to be. He knew that Peter loved him when he asked him those questions, but he wanted Peter to look into his own heart to see that too. Jesus knew how the crowd would react to his comments about he without sin. Jesus knew how the woman would respond. We don't know what happened to the woman after this event, if she went forward and lived for the Lord, or went back into sin. We hope she listened to the Lord and went without sinning anymore.
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Post by John on Jan 10, 2020 3:39:11 GMT -5
In regard to Judas Iscariot, he was feeling guilty and sorrowful because he saw that Jesus was condemned to die because of his actions. I think it was more about an innocent man being condemned that he was sorrowful, not that he loved the Lord. He did wish he could take back what he did because of the consequences, but having guilt you can't live with isn't genuine repentance. I don't think his sorrow was because he loved Jesus and hurt him. I do think that was the case with Peter. I think it was that Judas was sorry he did something that would lead to the shedding of innocent blood. He couldn't do anything to take away his guilt. Giving back the money wouldn't undo the damage. Jesus was still condemned to die because of him. This guilt led to Judas hanging himself.
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 13, 2020 10:08:05 GMT -5
Interesting discussion. Jesus didn't condemn Peter or the woman who committed adultery, but did expect something from both of them. To Peter, it was to feed His sheep. To the woman, it was to stop sinning.
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