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Post by Tabitha3319 on Dec 10, 2021 5:31:05 GMT -5
Tonight, I had a dream that I answered a,question about what the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit could possibly all be doing, from a skeptics point of view.
I wrote my answer past the margins and into clay-like sand.
I read my answer out loud and began to go off my notes. As I grasped for what to say, signs, symbols, and pictures gave me the words and a crowd formed. I began to witness to the crowd about Jesus and his role as Saviour. Then, I woke up.
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Post by watchful on Dec 10, 2021 8:57:37 GMT -5
Tonight, I had a dream that I answered a,question about what the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit could possibly all be doing, from a skeptics point of view.
I wrote my answer past the margins and into clay-like sand.
I read my answer out loud and began to go off my notes. As I grasped for what to say, signs, symbols, and pictures gave me the words and a crowd formed. I began to witness to the crowd about Jesus and his role as Saviour. Then, I woke up.
Sister, thanks for sharing this dream. If I may offer some thoughts, this comes to mind for one thing: Jhn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. Nothing of this world, man's words, flesh, mind, can contain the things of God and His Spirit, everything He is and does. But the Lord is writing them on our hearts (clay/sand = man). Also 1 Corinthian, chapter 2 came to mind and when I went to pray and read my bible was open and my eyes lit on that chapter....love how the Lord works. << As I grasped for what to say, signs, symbols, and pictures gave me the words>> Amen, because the Lord speaks to us in parables. The dream possibly might be at least partly related to the gospel TV ad you saw.....was there any "life" in the words? or was it relying on man's logic and reason. The Lord might be kind of commenting that we can do nothing without Him, ie, His Spirit. It's wonderful how He sometimes speaks and engages in "conversation" with His children about things, He is alive and He is so real, glory to His name.
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Post by watchful on Dec 10, 2021 9:34:17 GMT -5
The prevailing view in the vast majority of the modern day church is that the "thousand year" reign is after Christ's coming, so that's why we don't hear of many who are saying His reign is in this present age of grace. But as I said there are others who are called preterists or partial preterists who believe Jesus is ruling and reigning now. Private interpretation just means one's own interpretation. When the Spirit of the Lord reveals the meaning of something, then that is not a private interpretation. But always keeping in mind we only know in part and that we are to test all things. For example here is a wonderful scripture the Lord opened my eyes to, and then subsequently I saw someone else who understands it the same as I now do by the grace of God. It becomes quite plain once we lay aside our belief in a future reign of Christ Jesus long enough to see. This passage in itself completely disproves the idea of a future millennial reign: 1Co 15:22-16
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign (now), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. (which is completed with finality at His coming) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. (at the resurrection, which is the context of these verses, which is at the coming of Christ, which is the end) For he hath put all things under his feet (meaning Jesus is ruling and reigning, ie, now) But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. (Jesus returns the kingdom to the Father, so the Son is no longer ruling & reigning after the end of this age) Jesus Himself said this about the end: Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Do you know any preterists or partial preterists? Are there some you are listening to? Is that what you are? You said that this is just something God revealed to you, but you know of these religious groups that believe we are in the millennial reign today. I was not aware of them or that they believe that way. Were there particular teachers or preachers that are preterist or partial preterist that influenced your thinking? If so, I would like to listen to one of them, because it might help me at least half way understand how they came to this belief? Right now, I cannot even comprehend how anyone can get that out of anything in the Bible.
One thing I've tried to learn over the years is not to point to man or men, but only to the Lord. Because as the bible says, all men are liars. In the past I have sometimes pointed to man, saying oh come and listen to this one or that one, only to find out that they were in error about some other things. Everyone is a work in progress and subject to error. But what I did was to lay my beliefs about this particular topic on the altar and asked the LORD about it. And He was kind and faithful to begin opening some scriptures to me, which I have tried to share, but I can see it is not 'computing' with the good folks here. To start with it is going to be hard to understand the scriptures if we aren't willing to lay down our present beliefs to the Lord long enough to be objective. But also, God may speak to hearts and minds using different scriptures to different people. Maybe how I came to this is not necessarily how others need to hear it. Its a spiritual battle, and strongholds don't always come down easily, but as long as they are standing they can blind us to things in the bible that are otherwise simple and easy. All the Lord wants is our willingness...that is all I was able to bring to the table and it was enough.
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Post by watchful on Dec 10, 2021 10:16:44 GMT -5
o preterists teach this and so does new age . BEWARE THEM BOTH . If we read revelation and the writing also of the apostels , We would KNOW the THOUSAND YEARS was and is A FUTURE EVENT THEY ALL KNEW IT . We must simply press onward in Christ . That is how I feel. If we are to believe we have been in the Millennial reign since the time of the early church, Millennial loses it's meaning. We have greatly exceeded 1000 years. When I look at the state of the world, it is hard to believe the devil has been bound in the bottomless pit all this time! Where do we see all the nations recognizing Jesus Christ as King? Where do we see anything even remotely resembling what the Bible describes during that time, and what about it being a time of peace? Look at all the wars we saw in the 20th century alone! I cannot wrap my mind around it. I am more apt to believe in a flat earth than that we are in the Millennial Reign of Christ today, but I am willing to give one of their speakers a fair hearing to explain this.
I don't believe in a "Millennial Reign" at any time really, because that is an extra-biblical term that involves a utopian concept that I no longer agree with. But I believe that when Rev speaks of a "thousand years" it is allegorical for the age of grace and rule of Christ that we are in now. We need to understand the language of the bible...it is not the language of man but is spiritual language. Here are a couple of examples of what I'm talking about in case it's helpful for anyone: Luk 1:13-17
But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John.
“And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth.
“For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.
“And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God.
“He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
See how the above scripture paints a rosy picture of how things will be for Israel when John the Baptist came, but the reality on the ground was that only a remnant from all Israel ended up saved and John was martyred. This is because from heaven’s (God’s) point of view, He is only really looking at His kingdom and prophesying of His kingdom, how spiritually wonderful it will be for those individuals who repent and are baptized and turn to the Lord. He is not speaking of the nation or those of Israel who remain unbelieving. Rom 16:25-26
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith
This sounds to our natural ears so wonderful as though all the nations are going to turn to the Lord and become obedient and righteous, when in reality only a remnant will be saved out of the nations and they will in likelihood even be persecuted by their respective nations. Once again, God is not speaking in a precise literal sense, but only looking and speaking of His kingdom, the individuals who will be saved in those nations, and yes His kingdom is wonderful. But He is not even looking at or talking about the unbelieving of the nations who are outside His kingdom. So why do we take everything in the book of Revelation as though it is precisely literal? Jesus Christ certainly is ruling and reigning NOW in HIS KINGDOM which is on earth NOW within the believing church. He was already given a name that is above every name at the start of this age and through that name we are ruling and reigning with Him whenever we act or pray in faith.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Dec 10, 2021 13:22:45 GMT -5
Tonight, I had a dream that I answered a,question about what the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit could possibly all be doing, from a skeptics point of view.
I wrote my answer past the margins and into clay-like sand.
I read my answer out loud and began to go off my notes. As I grasped for what to say, signs, symbols, and pictures gave me the words and a crowd formed. I began to witness to the crowd about Jesus and his role as Saviour. Then, I woke up.
Sister, thanks for sharing this dream. If I may offer some thoughts, this comes to mind for one thing: Jhn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. Nothing of this world, man's words, flesh, mind, can contain the things of God and His Spirit, everything He is and does. But the Lord is writing them on our hearts (clay/sand = man). Also 1 Corinthian, chapter 2 came to mind and when I went to pray and read my bible was open and my eyes lit on that chapter....love how the Lord works. << As I grasped for what to say, signs, symbols, and pictures gave me the words>> Amen, because the Lord speaks to us in parables. The dream possibly might be at least partly related to the gospel TV ad you saw.....was there any "life" in the words? or was it relying on man's logic and reason. The Lord might be kind of commenting that we can do nothing without Him, ie, His Spirit. It's wonderful how He sometimes speaks and engages in "conversation" with His children about things, He is alive and He is so real, glory to His name. Thank you for the commentary. It is interesting how the Holy Spirit was prompting me through various pictures. I remember proclaiming Jesus as the Alpha and Omega and being blameless.
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Post by watchful on Dec 10, 2021 14:09:40 GMT -5
Sister, thanks for sharing this dream. If I may offer some thoughts, this comes to mind for one thing: Jhn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. Nothing of this world, man's words, flesh, mind, can contain the things of God and His Spirit, everything He is and does. But the Lord is writing them on our hearts (clay/sand = man). Also 1 Corinthian, chapter 2 came to mind and when I went to pray and read my bible was open and my eyes lit on that chapter....love how the Lord works. << As I grasped for what to say, signs, symbols, and pictures gave me the words>> Amen, because the Lord speaks to us in parables. The dream possibly might be at least partly related to the gospel TV ad you saw.....was there any "life" in the words? or was it relying on man's logic and reason. The Lord might be kind of commenting that we can do nothing without Him, ie, His Spirit. It's wonderful how He sometimes speaks and engages in "conversation" with His children about things, He is alive and He is so real, glory to His name. Thank you for the commentary. It is interesting how the Holy Spirit was prompting me through various pictures. I remember proclaiming Jesus as the Alpha and Omega and being blameless. Amen. Just to say why I mentioned the TV ad....I saw a similar TV ad for the gospel and sinner's prayer not long ago, not sure if it's the same one you saw, and I was glad to see it, even though I was sad that there was no anointing on it, as far as I could tell.....it might have been made by believers who are cessationists. But the dream seemed as though the Lord might have been referring (in part) to that ad you mentioned (if it was like the one I had seen)....to the need for His power which goes beyond the words. Just mentioned it as a possibility.
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Post by John on Dec 10, 2021 16:01:55 GMT -5
That is how I feel. If we are to believe we have been in the Millennial reign since the time of the early church, Millennial loses it's meaning. We have greatly exceeded 1000 years. When I look at the state of the world, it is hard to believe the devil has been bound in the bottomless pit all this time! Where do we see all the nations recognizing Jesus Christ as King? Where do we see anything even remotely resembling what the Bible describes during that time, and what about it being a time of peace? Look at all the wars we saw in the 20th century alone! I cannot wrap my mind around it. I am more apt to believe in a flat earth than that we are in the Millennial Reign of Christ today, but I am willing to give one of their speakers a fair hearing to explain this.
I don't believe in a "Millennial Reign" at any time really, because that is an extra-biblical term that involves a utopian concept that I no longer agree with. But I believe that when Rev speaks of a "thousand years" it is allegorical for the age of grace and rule of Christ that we are in now. We need to understand the language of the bible...it is not the language of man but is spiritual language. Here are a couple of examples of what I'm talking about in case it's helpful for anyone: Luk 1:13-17
But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John.
“And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth.
“For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.
“And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God.
“He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
See how the above scripture paints a rosy picture of how things will be for Israel when John the Baptist came, but the reality on the ground was that only a remnant from all Israel ended up saved and John was martyred. This is because from heaven’s (God’s) point of view, He is only really looking at His kingdom and prophesying of His kingdom, how spiritually wonderful it will be for those individuals who repent and are baptized and turn to the Lord. He is not speaking of the nation or those of Israel who remain unbelieving. Rom 16:25-26
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith
This sounds to our natural ears so wonderful as though all the nations are going to turn to the Lord and become obedient and righteous, when in reality only a remnant will be saved out of the nations and they will in likelihood even be persecuted by their respective nations. Once again, God is not speaking in a precise literal sense, but only looking and speaking of His kingdom, the individuals who will be saved in those nations, and yes His kingdom is wonderful. But He is not even looking at or talking about the unbelieving of the nations who are outside His kingdom. So why do we take everything in the book of Revelation as though it is precisely literal? Jesus Christ certainly is ruling and reigning NOW in HIS KINGDOM which is on earth NOW within the believing church. He was already given a name that is above every name at the start of this age and through that name we are ruling and reigning with Him whenever we act or pray in faith. When I read that, it does not sound like it is saying that all will be saved. It only says it is made known to all the nations. It never says what they will do with the information. To me, Revelation is pretty straight forward. Yes, a person could say they are going to get rid of any pre-conceived ideas and keep an open mind about the true meaning, but that does not mean their original thoughts were wrong. Having gone through Revelation recently, I was open minded about what it was saying, and still did not come to the conclusions you did, not even close. I cannot help but wonder if someone from one of those groups you mentioned did not plant seeds in you that have led you to believe what you do? I am not saying that happened, but I tend to think it is likely, just as you think we all are believing what we do based on things we have been taught. It is what it is. We just have a different opinion on this, and it is not something that is essential to the faith. I am just concerned with how many other areas this spiritual type of interpretation changes your beliefs in other parts of the Bible from what most Christians have accepted as truth.
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Post by watchful on Dec 10, 2021 17:08:12 GMT -5
I don't believe in a "Millennial Reign" at any time really, because that is an extra-biblical term that involves a utopian concept that I no longer agree with. But I believe that when Rev speaks of a "thousand years" it is allegorical for the age of grace and rule of Christ that we are in now. We need to understand the language of the bible...it is not the language of man but is spiritual language. Here are a couple of examples of what I'm talking about in case it's helpful for anyone: Luk 1:13-17
But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John.
“And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth.
“For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.
“And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God.
“He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
See how the above scripture paints a rosy picture of how things will be for Israel when John the Baptist came, but the reality on the ground was that only a remnant from all Israel ended up saved and John was martyred. This is because from heaven’s (God’s) point of view, He is only really looking at His kingdom and prophesying of His kingdom, how spiritually wonderful it will be for those individuals who repent and are baptized and turn to the Lord. He is not speaking of the nation or those of Israel who remain unbelieving. Rom 16:25-26
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith
This sounds to our natural ears so wonderful as though all the nations are going to turn to the Lord and become obedient and righteous, when in reality only a remnant will be saved out of the nations and they will in likelihood even be persecuted by their respective nations. Once again, God is not speaking in a precise literal sense, but only looking and speaking of His kingdom, the individuals who will be saved in those nations, and yes His kingdom is wonderful. But He is not even looking at or talking about the unbelieving of the nations who are outside His kingdom. So why do we take everything in the book of Revelation as though it is precisely literal? Jesus Christ certainly is ruling and reigning NOW in HIS KINGDOM which is on earth NOW within the believing church. He was already given a name that is above every name at the start of this age and through that name we are ruling and reigning with Him whenever we act or pray in faith. When I read that, it does not sound like it is saying that all will be saved. It only says it is made known to all the nations. It never says what they will do with the information. To me, Revelation is pretty straight forward. Yes, a person could say they are going to get rid of any pre-conceived ideas and keep an open mind about the true meaning, but that does not mean their original thoughts were wrong. Having gone through Revelation recently, I was open minded about what it was saying, and still did not come to the conclusions you did, not even close. I cannot help but wonder if someone from one of those groups you mentioned did not plant seeds in you that have led you to believe what you do? I am not saying that happened, but I tend to think it is likely, just as you think we all are believing what we do based on things we have been taught. It is what it is. We just have a different opinion on this, and it is not something that is essential to the faith. I am just concerned with how many other areas this spiritual type of interpretation changes your beliefs in other parts of the Bible from what most Christians have accepted as truth.
It's not that spiritual brother, not that hard. Jesus said the gospel will be preached in all the world and then the END will come. Paul wrote to the Thessalonians that when Jesus comes we will meet Him in the air (ie, ascend to the heavenly realm) and SO shall we FOREVER be with the Lord. In 1 Corinthians 15 it says when Jesus comes He will return the kingdom to the FATHER (ie Jesus no longer ruling it then, so to speak) and be subject to Him once again. Peter wrote that when Jesus comes we look for a new heavens and new earth and this old world goes up in smoke...no millennial reign mentioned or possible after His second coming. And so many scriptures affirm the rule and reign of Christ ever since the cross. If we read Rev singularly and apart from other scriptures we end up contradicting things that have been written before. Interesting too that I recently read that John Darby, the acknowledged father of these Dispensationalist beliefs wrote that the Levitical priesthood has to be re-established. Yikes...this all seems to be leading to earthly Jerusalem and earthly kingdom that fights with carnal weapons like Israel of old. Anyhow, I don't ask anyone to believe me, just trying to get people to ask God about it. Have a blessed day.
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Post by solid on Dec 11, 2021 10:27:05 GMT -5
When I read that, it does not sound like it is saying that all will be saved. It only says it is made known to all the nations. It never says what they will do with the information. To me, Revelation is pretty straight forward. Yes, a person could say they are going to get rid of any pre-conceived ideas and keep an open mind about the true meaning, but that does not mean their original thoughts were wrong. Having gone through Revelation recently, I was open minded about what it was saying, and still did not come to the conclusions you did, not even close. I cannot help but wonder if someone from one of those groups you mentioned did not plant seeds in you that have led you to believe what you do? I am not saying that happened, but I tend to think it is likely, just as you think we all are believing what we do based on things we have been taught. It is what it is. We just have a different opinion on this, and it is not something that is essential to the faith. I am just concerned with how many other areas this spiritual type of interpretation changes your beliefs in other parts of the Bible from what most Christians have accepted as truth.
It's not that spiritual brother, not that hard. Jesus said the gospel will be preached in all the world and then the END will come. Paul wrote to the Thessalonians that when Jesus comes we will meet Him in the air (ie, ascend to the heavenly realm) and SO shall we FOREVER be with the Lord. In 1 Corinthians 15 it says when Jesus comes He will return the kingdom to the FATHER (ie Jesus no longer ruling it then, so to speak) and be subject to Him once again. Peter wrote that when Jesus comes we look for a new heavens and new earth and this old world goes up in smoke...no millennial reign mentioned or possible after His second coming. And so many scriptures affirm the rule and reign of Christ ever since the cross. If we read Rev singularly and apart from other scriptures we end up contradicting things that have been written before. Interesting too that I recently read that John Darby, the acknowledged father of these Dispensationalist beliefs wrote that the Levitical priesthood has to be re-established. Yikes...this all seems to be leading to earthly Jerusalem and earthly kingdom that fights with carnal weapons like Israel of old. Anyhow, I don't ask anyone to believe me, just trying to get people to ask God about it. Have a blessed day. There will be an earthly Kingdom and the Levitical priesthood will be reestablished. The Bible says so. John Darby is right.
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Post by watchful on Dec 11, 2021 13:39:52 GMT -5
It's not that spiritual brother, not that hard. Jesus said the gospel will be preached in all the world and then the END will come. Paul wrote to the Thessalonians that when Jesus comes we will meet Him in the air (ie, ascend to the heavenly realm) and SO shall we FOREVER be with the Lord. In 1 Corinthians 15 it says when Jesus comes He will return the kingdom to the FATHER (ie Jesus no longer ruling it then, so to speak) and be subject to Him once again. Peter wrote that when Jesus comes we look for a new heavens and new earth and this old world goes up in smoke...no millennial reign mentioned or possible after His second coming. And so many scriptures affirm the rule and reign of Christ ever since the cross. If we read Rev singularly and apart from other scriptures we end up contradicting things that have been written before. Interesting too that I recently read that John Darby, the acknowledged father of these Dispensationalist beliefs wrote that the Levitical priesthood has to be re-established. Yikes...this all seems to be leading to earthly Jerusalem and earthly kingdom that fights with carnal weapons like Israel of old. Anyhow, I don't ask anyone to believe me, just trying to get people to ask God about it. Have a blessed day. There will be an earthly Kingdom and the Levitical priesthood will be reestablished. The Bible says so. John Darby is right. Thanks for your input, but I don't know how there could be a future earthly kingdom when this earth is going to perish at His coming, along with all the unbelieving who have rejected Christ. And I can't see what nations there will be left for Satan to deceive when all unbelievers have gone to perdition and believers are forever with the Lord in the new heavens/earth and this earth is burned up, at Jesus' second coming. I don't know what scriptures you're referencing with regard to a re-established Levitical priesthood, unless you'd like to bring some.
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Post by solid on Dec 11, 2021 15:15:08 GMT -5
There will be an earthly Kingdom and the Levitical priesthood will be reestablished. The Bible says so. John Darby is right. Thanks for your input, but I don't know how there could be a future earthly kingdom when this earth is going to perish at His coming, along with all the unbelieving who have rejected Christ. And I can't see what nations there will be left for Satan to deceive when all unbelievers have gone to perdition and believers are forever with the Lord in the new heavens/earth and this earth is burned up, at Jesus' second coming. I don't know what scriptures you're referencing with regard to a re-established Levitical priesthood, unless you'd like to bring some. There will be people that survive the tribulation that enter the Millennial Reign in a natural body. They will multiply on earth and be ruled over by those who were part of the rapture. The new heaven and new earth come after the millenial reign.
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Post by watchful on Dec 11, 2021 16:28:22 GMT -5
Thanks for your input, but I don't know how there could be a future earthly kingdom when this earth is going to perish at His coming, along with all the unbelieving who have rejected Christ. And I can't see what nations there will be left for Satan to deceive when all unbelievers have gone to perdition and believers are forever with the Lord in the new heavens/earth and this earth is burned up, at Jesus' second coming. I don't know what scriptures you're referencing with regard to a re-established Levitical priesthood, unless you'd like to bring some. There will be people that survive the tribulation that enter the Millennial Reign in a natural body. They will multiply on earth and be ruled over by those who were part of the rapture. The new heaven and new earth come after the millenial reign. Not according to scripture, brother. On the day of the Lord....Christ returns, the judgment happens, this earth is burned up and sinners go in the lake of fire, and this earth burned up. All at the return of Christ, on His day. So I'm still left wondering how a future earthly 'millennial reign' can happen. John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Rev 20:11-15
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
So those scriptures tell us clearly that both the judgment of this world and the resurrection of the dead occur on the last day, the day of the Lord upon His return, which is the same time when believers will meet the Lord in the air. With which Peter clearly agrees: 2Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.....
......2 Peter 3:10-13
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
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Post by solid on Dec 11, 2021 18:36:34 GMT -5
There will be people that survive the tribulation that enter the Millennial Reign in a natural body. They will multiply on earth and be ruled over by those who were part of the rapture. The new heaven and new earth come after the millenial reign. Not according to scripture, brother. On the day of the Lord....Christ returns, the judgment happens, this earth is burned up and sinners go in the lake of fire, and this earth burned up. All at the return of Christ, on His day. So I'm still left wondering how a future earthly 'millennial reign' can happen. John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Rev 20:11-15
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
So those scriptures tell us clearly that both the judgment of this world and the resurrection of the dead occur on the last day, the day of the Lord upon His return, which is the same time when believers will meet the Lord in the air. With which Peter clearly agrees: 2Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.....
......2 Peter 3:10-13
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Read the first part of Revelation chapter 20. That doesn't happen till the thousand years expires. This is completely opposite of what you are saying. 1000 years. It has been over 2000 years already since the destruction of Israel. We are not in the Millenial reign today.
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Post by watchful on Dec 12, 2021 7:27:46 GMT -5
Not according to scripture, brother. On the day of the Lord....Christ returns, the judgment happens, this earth is burned up and sinners go in the lake of fire, and this earth burned up. All at the return of Christ, on His day. So I'm still left wondering how a future earthly 'millennial reign' can happen. John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Rev 20:11-15
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
So those scriptures tell us clearly that both the judgment of this world and the resurrection of the dead occur on the last day, the day of the Lord upon His return, which is the same time when believers will meet the Lord in the air. With which Peter clearly agrees: 2Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.....
......2 Peter 3:10-13
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Read the first part of Revelation chapter 20. That doesn't happen till the thousand years expires. This is completely opposite of what you are saying. 1000 years. It has been over 2000 years already since the destruction of Israel. We are not in the Millenial reign today. The scriptures I brought prove the judgment of sinners, and earth and heavens passing away, occur at the day of the Lord, at His coming, which is like a thief in the night....sudden destruction. 1Th 5:2-4 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. It is our understanding of Rev that is incorrect, since it contradicts so many prior scriptures. But we are blind to those contradictions because our current understanding has lodged like a stronghold in the mind. We all have imbibed a utopian concept of what His kingdom looks like on earth, but it isn't like that......His kingdom is here now but the unsaved world remains at enmity with it and about to be judged/perish. Jesus said His kingdom is within/among us and that it cometh not with careful observation. The way things get described in prophecy is from heaven's point of view, not man's...and regarding His rule and reign God is only looking at and describing HIS kingdom, which Jesus certainly has been ruling ever since the cross/resurrection/ascension. He and His disciples were preaching the kingdom is at hand 2000 years ago. It is here now on this earth through His Spirit and within the church of believers. And when He comes again He will root out of the already existing kingdom all that do evil, ie, judge/destroy all that is not of Him. It is our MIS-understanding of certain passages in Rev that is throwing us off. It is much better to allow all the prior scriptures to inform our understanding of Rev, rather than working backwards from our (wrong) understanding of Rev and trying to make that fit the earlier scriptures. If we work backwards we will either try to make (wrest) the earlier passages fit our current wrong understanding of Rev, or we just remain confused d/t the contradictions.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Dec 13, 2021 15:54:05 GMT -5
Hi Narrow Way,
I just wanted to share something Im thinking about when it comes to forums and online communities.
I think it's wonderful that Christians have places to gather online but I feel like I am starting to see a golden opportunity by stepping out of my comfort zone to secular sites. One website in particular is called Reddit. You may have heard of it.
You can form an online community around anything you want. I joined r/AskaChristian and r/debatereligion just now.
My main point is that a this is a place where the lost gather and many are looking for advice.
I was in a thread about weight loss and I put prayer as one of many methods as to how I lost weight. A user point blank asked me how prayer and faith affected my weight loss.
My mind was blown. I feel like my time might be better shifted towards prayerfully witnessing and being a light on places like Reddit.
The majority of people on Reddit, Id say are young liberal types. It came off a but obnoxious at first but there are a lot of people who are hungry for truth as well.
I just wanted to share this in case others felt like I was feeling--- like they are in a Christian bubble and not sure how to make a difference.
I feel like places like Reddit could use more of a Christian presence.
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