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Post by John on Aug 16, 2020 19:12:44 GMT -5
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. Mark 11:25-26
This is something that the Lord has really been dealing with me about lately is forgiving people that have wronged me. I have noticed that as the day of the Lord approaches, there have been many prophets of the Lord who have been having dreams warning them about missing out on heaven because they held unforgiveness towards others. They were in shock, because they were Christians, and had always been taught that as a Christian, nothing could keep them out of heaven. They supposedly had unconditional security. This led to a wakeup call for them, and a time of repentance to make things right.
Here is what the Lord showed me about the issue of forgiveness. Often times, we find reasons not to forgive. Sometimes we will go about claiming we can forgive, but we cannot forget, and we will never trust that person again. Is that real forgiveness? Is that what we expect from the Lord? Do you think that when you repent of your sins, he keeps a file of your transgressions that you repented of, and forgives you, but always holds it against you? If you do not expect that from God, why is that okay for you? When I say that, I point the finger of guilt right back at me, because I have been guilty. I have done that a lot! I know there is a problem with unforgiveness because I keep getting riled up again every time I think about what that person did.
Then there is the question over if the person is really sorry. How can you possibly know? How can you know their heart? Often times, you will hear someone say they are sorry, but you may think within yourself, they do not really mean it. Those are just crocodile tears, or they are insincere apologies. Is it worth risking everything on making such a judgment? I do not think so.
Here comes the toughest situation for me, the person who does not apologize. My feeling has always been, the Lord requires us to confess our sins to get forgiveness, so we do not have to forgive unless someone asks us to forgive them. Is that true? Maybe and maybe not. One thing the Lord showed me I had not considered is that a person can genuinely think they are in the right, even if they are not, and they are not going to repent of wrong doing if they think they did nothing wrong. Even in my belief system, based on Hebrews, I believe that all sins done unintentionally are under the blood covering, even if you did not repent, because it was not known. Only after you know you sinned can you repent, so why would that not be true for others?
Anyway, to make a long story short, I had to go back and forgive and really put the transgressions of others aside. I had to come to the place where I decided that risking my soul out of stubbornly holding onto bitterness was not worth it. The Lord had forgiven me of so many things over the years, who am I to hold onto anger over relatively minor things by comparison? You are not going to make it into heaven with spot or wrinkle on your garment, whether you can point to a day you accepted Jesus or not. Jesus plainly says that if you do not forgive others, neither will God forgive you, which means you will not get into heaven. The time is getting short, and I am not going to allow unforgiveness to stand between me and my relationship with the Father, and I urge you all to look inside to see if you are harboring ill will towards anyone in your past. If you are, now is the time to learn to forgive as you desire God to forgive you.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 16, 2020 21:42:01 GMT -5
Forgiving does not entail we have unity . let us always remember that . lets give an example . say the pope did me wrong . i would not hold that against him in my heart , but it sure dont mean we would become best buds either . I would still warn out against that man . We can pray forgivenss for all who wrong us , but it dont mean we suddenly all hanging out again . IF your brother trepass against you , you Rebuke him , and if he repent you forgive him . I forgave many at even worthy for what they did to me . but it dont mean i am gonna now have unity with them . no way and no how . that would be error . Watch out and be on gaurd . BUT always FORGIVE anyone who does you wrong , pray for them .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 16, 2020 21:43:13 GMT -5
Lets double down on all reminders in the bible . yes indeed .
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Aug 16, 2020 22:12:41 GMT -5
Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
we are supposed to be like our Father... and this is how we give Him glory... when His reflection is seen in us. consider this carefully:
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. Jas 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
count it all JOY it says. and how do we do this? endurance? long suffering? patience? yes. and God is committed to bringing us to maturity. into perfection. and it aint no i failed the test, i just didnt make the mark with God. nope. you get to take the test over and over and over until you are conformed into the image of Christ. again, God is committed to this. and here it is:
while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. oh yes. while we were dead in sin. while we were Gods enemy... God loved us. He suffered. He was mocked. He bled. He died all to make a way back to Him. How then can we turn our nose up at another? how then can the servant be greater than the master? forgiveness is not optional. it is imperative that we love those who are our enemy.
Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. now the above verse from Matthew is speaking to a rich man entering heaven, but what can God not do? God is able to do anything, and even able to change our hearts, able to make a stoney heart, a hard calloused heart full of sin and violence... He can turn it into a soft heart of flesh.
if i have not love i am as a clanging brass...
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Post by watchful on Aug 17, 2020 13:40:34 GMT -5
Learning to rise above the things of this world and reckoning oneself dead to the offense.
There's a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation though. Reconciliation takes both parties to reconcile, whereas forgiveness can be unilateral.
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Cletus
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Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Aug 17, 2020 20:52:06 GMT -5
Learning to rise above the things of this world and reckoning oneself dead to the offense. There's a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation though. Reconciliation takes both parties to reconcile, whereas forgiveness can be unilateral. it is true that dead men do not get offended.
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Post by John on Aug 19, 2020 12:33:21 GMT -5
Forgiving does not entail we have unity . let us always remember that . lets give an example . say the pope did me wrong . i would not hold that against him in my heart , but it sure dont mean we would become best buds either . I would still warn out against that man . We can pray forgivenss for all who wrong us , but it dont mean we suddenly all hanging out again . IF your brother trepass against you , you Rebuke him , and if he repent you forgive him . I forgave many at even worthy for what they did to me . but it dont mean i am gonna now have unity with them . no way and no how . that would be error . Watch out and be on gaurd . BUT always FORGIVE anyone who does you wrong , pray for them . The main thing is that we do not go around holding grudges. The Lord reminded me that when we refuse to forgive others, God will not forgive us. That is what the Bible says, with no exceptions. Imagine that you are a Christian, feeling good about yourself, and you see yourself as on your way to heaven, but you have unforgiveness towards someone. All the time you feel like you are clean, you are defiled with every evil thing you are doing. You are praying for forgiveness as scripture says to do, but God refuses to forgive you because you will not forgive others. If you died in that state, you would not go to heaven, because no unclean thing can get into that holy place.
This is not the only thing in scripture where it says if you are guilty, you will not enter heaven, but it is one area where you are told point blank that God will not forgive you. We all know about the unpardonable sin, where God will not forgive in this life or the next, but in this case, you will not be forgiven for anything when you ask if you harbor ill will towards others. Get it under the blood now, and let it go.
As for reconciling, that is not always possible. It certainly is not possible with WCF, and it has more to do with them than me. I have not changed my views on the controversy that caused me to be called a non-conformist, which means that even if I attempted to return, I would be at Mars Hill. No thanks. This has nothing to do with harboring ill will, but it is about the reality of the situation. What I am letting go is the false witness against me, where I was accused of not believing in the inerrancy of scripture, when I do. At this point, I feel like there is a great weight lifted off of me for letting that go, and for being away from the strife and false teachings. You can let things go without reconciling in some cases. That is certainly the case in situations where that is not an option.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Aug 19, 2020 20:19:50 GMT -5
Check this out:
Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
G4739 στήκω stēkō stay'-ko From the perfect tense of G2476; to be stationary, that is, (figuratively) to persevere: - stand (fast). Total KJV occurrences: 8
G2476 ἵστημι histēmi his'-tay-mee A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively): - abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up). Compare G5087. Total KJV occurrences: 156
G5087 τίθημι tithēmi tith'-ay-mee A prolonged form of a primary word θέω theō (which is used only as an alternate in certain tenses); to place (in the widest application, literally and figuratively; properly in a passive or horizontal posture, and thus different from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate): - + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down. Total KJV occurrences: 96
one of the things we do when we pray is ask for forgiveness of our sins. if you dont you should be. i believe what this verse is saying is while you are in your prayer time... dont just go to God asking to be forgiven... but to search your heart for any unforgiveness you harbor in your heart and forgive them. this would be a sort of sacrifice to God during your prayer time... a living sacrifice. it also would show self-less-ness on your part as you are not just asking for the blessing... but you are doing the standard God has for us. Searching your heart for anything thats dirty to get it out.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Aug 19, 2020 20:41:57 GMT -5
I think its also important to reflect on a major emphasis of Jesus' Teachings, which were how to build and maintain right relationships with God and man. these relationships are indeed a big part of what our lives are made of. here is some good groceries:
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
conflicts left unresolved cause more damage to relationships. I think its wise to daily forgive others during our prayer time. we should do this as a discipline. here is the standard:
Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
if we see something in others that offends us... something that irritates us... we need to be looking inwardly to see if we have any bit of that in our own self. correct our own faults and solve our own problems before trying to do so in others.
if we do these things we can be sure the inside of the cup will be clean of unforgiveness.
can you think of something else to add to this?
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Post by solid on Aug 20, 2020 5:37:34 GMT -5
I think its also important to reflect on a major emphasis of Jesus' Teachings, which were how to build and maintain right relationships with God and man. these relationships are indeed a big part of what our lives are made of. here is some good groceries: Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. conflicts left unresolved cause more damage to relationships. I think its wise to daily forgive others during our prayer time. we should do this as a discipline. here is the standard: Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. if we see something in others that offends us... something that irritates us... we need to be looking inwardly to see if we have any bit of that in our own self. correct our own faults and solve our own problems before trying to do so in others. if we do these things we can be sure the inside of the cup will be clean of unforgiveness. can you think of something else to add to this? Good thoughts, but there will be times where the fault lies 100 percent with the other person. Most times, that's not true, but sometimes it is. I like the thread because it's given me lots to think about I hadn't considered.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Aug 20, 2020 8:04:46 GMT -5
I think its also important to reflect on a major emphasis of Jesus' Teachings, which were how to build and maintain right relationships with God and man. these relationships are indeed a big part of what our lives are made of. here is some good groceries: Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. conflicts left unresolved cause more damage to relationships. I think its wise to daily forgive others during our prayer time. we should do this as a discipline. here is the standard: Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. if we see something in others that offends us... something that irritates us... we need to be looking inwardly to see if we have any bit of that in our own self. correct our own faults and solve our own problems before trying to do so in others. if we do these things we can be sure the inside of the cup will be clean of unforgiveness. can you think of something else to add to this? Good thoughts, but there will be times where the fault lies 100 percent with the other person. Most times, that's not true, but sometimes it is. I like the thread because it's given me lots to think about I hadn't considered. Your words have i considered and I can think of one example in the bible where your words are absolutely 100% truth.
we got to take it back to the garden. Adam and eve ate that fruit... causing the whole human race to be born into sin. to be born sinful. to cause that breath inside them to be suffocated. that light to go dim...
and then....
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. He grew up as a tender shoot. He began to preach and teach to Repent, for The Kingdom is at hand. and then....
he was arrested, mocked whipped, and hung on a cross...
but,
before he died on that cross He said...
"Father, forgive them... for they know not what they do"
Praise The KING!
oh yes sometimes it is 100% THE OTHER GUYS FAULT. the servant is not greater than the Master, and we are to strive to live like He did. How true it is that LOVE is the greatest. A KING has laid down his life for us. Let us never forget this. let us not think we are to good... because i do not want to be gathered with those who cried out give to us Barabbas!
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Post by frienduff on Aug 20, 2020 8:15:34 GMT -5
Speaking of barabbas . lets look at that very example . Notice several things , the people were moved BY the religous leaders to PUT JESUS to death and to cry give us barbabas . Now go to today . The leaders of chrsitanity have moved the people to put away JESUS and BIBLE DOCTRINE and to give us an all inclusive one . They have cast aside the glorious TRUTH , for a lie and the doctrine of a murderer and of a thief . And the leaders have caused the peoples to cry out , away with the gosple and give us the all inclusive one . PONDER on that one . In a sense its exactly what they do . THEY Crucify and trample Christ and HIS doctrine under foot , and ask for the doctrine of a murderer . Cause SATAN IS the one who planted the all inclusive social gosple INTO their hearts . Ponder on this . really ponder .
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