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Post by frienduff on Aug 27, 2020 8:32:00 GMT -5
Let me give an example . WE know GOD said NOT to fornicate . SO we teach not to fornicate and we warn , like paul , Dont you know fornicators will not inherit the KINGDOM of GOD . NOW if we see one in that sin . WE REBUKE THEM . IF they do repent , they are restored . But you will never see me , ever making light of error . example . I would not say , oh when we first come there are things that might still be doing . NO way . While i know we are all being worked on , SIN and error is deadly . We never know . IF one goes into sin , There is no gaurantee they will ever come back out of it . SO KEEP it SERIOUS . And if we see it , correct it . Well, let's preach the word by all means and keep holding up the plumbline. And the truth is simple. The problem that I see is that people are not so simple, And that's why I believe folks often need to be ministered to and not just preached at. Paul preached not just in word but with a demonstration of power....power to heal, power to change hearts, power to deliver, etc, in order to free people to even be able to obey the Lord. It's a MINISTRY of reconciliation, the word needs to be ministered to hearts. So I don't think it's a case of simply remind believers of what the bible says and if their life doesn't instantly line up with every word in the bible in every way then "too bad, so sad" for them. It's a battle, a laborious battle all the way, and ultimately people need to have the word ministered to them the same way that the Lord ministered the gospel to our hearts...by His Spirit and through faith....the word must find entrance, and we take more ground at various times that involves both God's choosing and our readiness along the way. Jesus says to come to Him and LEARN of Him...it can take a lifetime of growing and maturing, for one's faith to be perfected, a lifetime of the Lord working in various ways in our lives and hearts, and this is also what enables us to be touched with the feeling (empathy) of others' infirmities as well (which comes through getting to know our own infirmities...all flesh is the same). It works humility in us too. It's not for no reason that we will lay our crowns at HIS feet....I doubt we can even fathom how intimately involved and how hard He works in our lives. That the Lord is able and has power to keep us and bring us safely Home, doesn't mean it is a light and easy thing, or instantaneous. Also I like to keep in mind that different members of the body have different gifts....believers can have anointing in some areas while completely lacking in other areas that people need in order to be ministered to, and it doesn't mean the Lord writes anyone off for that. And not to mention the need for each one to grow in their gifting. His wisdom is manifold and He ministers His manifold graces through an entire Body not just through one gifting or person. Anyway, those are some of my thoughts. actually what john just said is correct . And yes its true that all do not have the same gifts . Everyone in the body Does need one another , due to we do not have it all . Each one has the Spirit in measure . And IT is the SPIRIT at work amongst all the believers . So that none does lack . But lacking is not the same thing as sin . In other words , its true i do not have it all , and i do need brethren , because the Spirit is in the body and each member and it works what is needful to the body by and through the members . But sin this does not include . meaning just because i lack , isnt because i am in a sin or etc , thus sin must always be seen as corrected and never in any way as though God understands new beleivers sin . We need to return to the original pattern . If paul and james , jude , john , JESUS were all dire and serious about sin . THEN let us be as well . I do not write anyone off who i see in error , BUT i do correct them . IF they dont take heed to cease the sin , then yeah we have to cast them out , TILL they do repent . Too many teachers today and for a while have been teaching this mindset and down playing the dire seriousness of sin . You know what happened , the churches start getting worse under that mindset . NOT BETTER . OH they may FEEL more safe and secure , but their efforts to really cry and cease sin , YEAH not happening and then it gets worse . Maturity takes time . But sin neeeds to be ceased asap , anytime its spotted and we need to continously stir folks up to NOT sin and to do good , to OBEY the SPIRIT and beware the dangers of error . The early church did , and JESUS did . SO must we .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 27, 2020 8:35:18 GMT -5
Let us have this mindset . If we see a believer , new or mature in the faith , and we see sin or error , deal with it asap . And if the new one or old one does not repent cast them out of the church , TILL they do . But let us never , ever , ponder , oh this one is new , so GOD understands they need some work . MOST DANGEROUS MINDSET of all THAT IS . NO , whether new or old , IF ONE SINS , SEE the SIN as HIGHLY DEADLY and that they have zero excuse , and must cease the sin .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 27, 2020 8:40:32 GMT -5
Remember who we are to HONOR and LOVE above all . GOD , JESUS . WIth that mind we know sin does not please God . do all to ensure the members grow in the pure and holy faith of our Lord and learn all His sayings , all His reminders , all His warnings . Keep all things in line with HIM and what those apostels taught . Keep it simple . Everyone here has thinkers , aka brains . But those thinkers and brains must align with every WORD of GOD . SO we must continously examine to see whether we walk in the faith and speak and do TRUTH . its time to get Houses cleaned and i mean fast . What i say next might scare some folks , but it has to get said . MANY are gonna wail on the day of the LORD . And none want to be in those shoes . We need to KNOW we KNOW the real biblial JESUS and that its HE who we are loving obeying . This reminder is for us all , even if we know it .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 27, 2020 8:46:03 GMT -5
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
JESUS said that . Let us see something . JESUS did not say , Look for all of you who are new , i understand you might slip and need some work , so no worries i wont cast you out . That never was never said or implied by JESUS .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 27, 2020 8:50:19 GMT -5
What is known is that in order for any lamb to grow or continue to grow , IS KEEPING it JUST LIKE JESUS said it . any change and assumption to that , will destroy both the sayer of it and those who would hear and beleive it . I know the bible is very straight forward . I know even paul and james and jude , peter and john were very grave men . And i know that this can scare folks . That many today would rather hear either a more toned down version and or etc . BUT IT DONT WORK man . IF we beleive the bible was GOD inspired , AND IT WAS , THEN KEEP that PATTERN and APPROACH . FOR whether back then , OR EVEN TODAY , ITS THE ONLY PATTERN that will WORK .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 27, 2020 8:52:23 GMT -5
Lets just keep it simple . Warn , encourage , keep it in line with the same pattern and approach JESUS had and the apostels had , IN EVERY situtation .
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Post by watchful on Aug 28, 2020 6:10:34 GMT -5
watchful , I understand what you are saying, but at the same time, we would not tell someone what the Bible says, and then turn around and say that even though this is what it says, God knows you cannot really do it, but you have to grow in maturity first. We do not tell them that if they fail, do not worry. People may fail, and people may mature at a different rate of speed, but our job is not to make light of this. If they do fail, we should be there to try to help them back up, but that is different from saying failure is to be expected. Also, we cannot say with assurance a person's failure did not cost them their standing with God. We only know what scripture says about certain things. Just saying that we shouldn't just rub salt in people's wounds....but we are to bind up their wounds. God has some strong words for shepherds who fail to bind up and heal the wounds of the sheep, wounds of the soul. I'm not at all saying we should be unconcerned about our sins and shortcomings, just that neither should we lose hope, or cause anyone else to lose hope. Shipwrecking someone's faith is the antithesis of what the church is called to do, that would be like a doctor sworn to saving lives going out and killing his patients. God is in the savING business, it is ongoing, not just one and done way back when we came to faith in Christ...there is always hope in Him and through Him.
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Post by watchful on Aug 28, 2020 6:43:01 GMT -5
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. JESUS said that . Let us see something . JESUS did not say , Look for all of you who are new , i understand you might slip and need some work , so no worries i wont cast you out . That never was never said or implied by JESUS . Well, let me clear up this misunderstanding before I go. I am in no way saying or implying or thinking that anyone in sin should be unconcerned, brother. But neither in the other extreme should they lose hope in the Lord and give up on their faith. I only want to encourage us to grow and go on to perfection (and what that means)....it's not some strange concept that is foreign to the scriptures. Growing is necessary, actually, otherwise the stench of death and stagnation sets in...where there's growth there is life. Anyway, sounding like a broken record so enough said.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 28, 2020 7:03:35 GMT -5
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. JESUS said that . Let us see something . JESUS did not say , Look for all of you who are new , i understand you might slip and need some work , so no worries i wont cast you out . That never was never said or implied by JESUS . Well, let me clear up this misunderstanding before I go. I am in no way saying or implying or thinking that anyone in sin should be unconcerned, brother. But neither in the other extreme should they lose hope in the Lord and give up on their faith. I only want to encourage us to grow and go on to perfection (and what that means)....it's not some strange concept that is foreign to the scriptures. Growing is necessary, actually, otherwise the stench of death and stagnation sets in...where there's growth there is life. Anyway, sounding like a broken record so enough said. Be encouraged in the Lord . Just the pure beauty of the words of King Jesus is like water that washes daily over our souls . Praise the HOLY LORD . Yes indeed we should always be on guard of our own bodies and look out for the welfare of the brethren . This world is just getting worse all the time . Sadly even many churches are too . The lambs must be on full time alert and looking out for one another as well.
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Post by John on Aug 29, 2020 13:42:08 GMT -5
watchful , I understand what you are saying, but at the same time, we would not tell someone what the Bible says, and then turn around and say that even though this is what it says, God knows you cannot really do it, but you have to grow in maturity first. We do not tell them that if they fail, do not worry. People may fail, and people may mature at a different rate of speed, but our job is not to make light of this. If they do fail, we should be there to try to help them back up, but that is different from saying failure is to be expected. Also, we cannot say with assurance a person's failure did not cost them their standing with God. We only know what scripture says about certain things. Just saying that we shouldn't just rub salt in people's wounds....but we are to bind up their wounds. God has some strong words for shepherds who fail to bind up and heal the wounds of the sheep, wounds of the soul. I'm not at all saying we should be unconcerned about our sins and shortcomings, just that neither should we lose hope, or cause anyone else to lose hope. Shipwrecking someone's faith is the antithesis of what the church is called to do, that would be like a doctor sworn to saving lives going out and killing his patients. God is in the savING business, it is ongoing, not just one and done way back when we came to faith in Christ...there is always hope in Him and through Him. That is a huge misrepresentation of what I am saying. I never said "one and done." It is about repentance. Our job is to lead people to stay in right relationship with Christ, and if they fail, to help show them that they need to repent immediately. None of this has anything to do with whether or not a person can lose their salvation or standing with God over a single sin. As I stated, a person can lose salvation over one wrong action. We know that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost and taking the mark of the beast will doom a person. I do not believe Ananias and Sapphira died saved. Our job is not to kick people out after a single sin. We are to work to restore them. There is plenty said about shepherds who fail to warn people about their sins. The Bible says that those shepherds will have blood on their hands. Nothing you just said applies to this situation.
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Post by John on Aug 29, 2020 13:45:27 GMT -5
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. JESUS said that . Let us see something . JESUS did not say , Look for all of you who are new , i understand you might slip and need some work , so no worries i wont cast you out . That never was never said or implied by JESUS . Well, let me clear up this misunderstanding before I go. I am in no way saying or implying or thinking that anyone in sin should be unconcerned, brother. But neither in the other extreme should they lose hope in the Lord and give up on their faith. I only want to encourage us to grow and go on to perfection (and what that means)....it's not some strange concept that is foreign to the scriptures. Growing is necessary, actually, otherwise the stench of death and stagnation sets in...where there's growth there is life. Anyway, sounding like a broken record so enough said. Again, a misrepresentation of what was said. Let us take Peter for instance. He denied the Lord, which means Jesus said He would deny Peter. How do we deal with someone like that? Ignore it, and figure he will come to see his error and get right on his own? Absolutely not! We go to him, show him that he needs to repent, dust himself off, and get up and sin no more. Do not deny Jesus anymore, but he must repent to be restored. That is not rubbing salt in his wound. That is restoration.
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Post by watchful on Aug 29, 2020 15:09:49 GMT -5
Just saying that we shouldn't just rub salt in people's wounds....but we are to bind up their wounds. God has some strong words for shepherds who fail to bind up and heal the wounds of the sheep, wounds of the soul. I'm not at all saying we should be unconcerned about our sins and shortcomings, just that neither should we lose hope, or cause anyone else to lose hope. Shipwrecking someone's faith is the antithesis of what the church is called to do, that would be like a doctor sworn to saving lives going out and killing his patients. God is in the savING business, it is ongoing, not just one and done way back when we came to faith in Christ...there is always hope in Him and through Him. That is a huge misrepresentation of what I am saying. I never said "one and done." It is about repentance. Our job is to lead people to stay in right relationship with Christ, and if they fail, to help show them that they need to repent immediately. None of this has anything to do with whether or not a person can lose their salvation or standing with God over a single sin. As I stated, a person can lose salvation over one wrong action. We know that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost and taking the mark of the beast will doom a person. I do not believe Ananias and Sapphira died saved. Our job is not to kick people out after a single sin. We are to work to restore them. There is plenty said about shepherds who fail to warn people about their sins. The Bible says that those shepherds will have blood on their hands. Nothing you just said applies to this situation. Just saying in general that our salvation is a process....a pilgrimmage of growing. It's not a case of we get saved and that's that....we also grow from there. Jesus talked about a harvest ripening, the wheat and tares. The epistles talk about growing into the full stature of Christ. It's not something I expected anyone to disagree with.
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Post by watchful on Aug 29, 2020 15:23:41 GMT -5
Well, let me clear up this misunderstanding before I go. I am in no way saying or implying or thinking that anyone in sin should be unconcerned, brother. But neither in the other extreme should they lose hope in the Lord and give up on their faith. I only want to encourage us to grow and go on to perfection (and what that means)....it's not some strange concept that is foreign to the scriptures. Growing is necessary, actually, otherwise the stench of death and stagnation sets in...where there's growth there is life. Anyway, sounding like a broken record so enough said. Again, a misrepresentation of what was said. Let us take Peter for instance. He denied the Lord, which means Jesus said He would deny Peter. How do we deal with someone like that? Ignore it, and figure he will come to see his error and get right on his own? Absolutely not! We go to him, show him that he needs to repent, dust himself off, and get up and sin no more. Do not deny Jesus anymore, but he must repent to be restored. That is not rubbing salt in his wound. That is restoration. I am not sure that is something a third party needs to deal with.....nobody dealt with Peter but the Lord. I was just making the point that people need to be ministered to not just preached at. Again wasn't expecting that to be a point of contention, just reminding of something we might have put on the shelf, since we tend to talk mostly about doctrine.
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Post by John on Aug 29, 2020 15:32:40 GMT -5
That is a huge misrepresentation of what I am saying. I never said "one and done." It is about repentance. Our job is to lead people to stay in right relationship with Christ, and if they fail, to help show them that they need to repent immediately. None of this has anything to do with whether or not a person can lose their salvation or standing with God over a single sin. As I stated, a person can lose salvation over one wrong action. We know that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost and taking the mark of the beast will doom a person. I do not believe Ananias and Sapphira died saved. Our job is not to kick people out after a single sin. We are to work to restore them. There is plenty said about shepherds who fail to warn people about their sins. The Bible says that those shepherds will have blood on their hands. Nothing you just said applies to this situation. Just saying in general that our salvation is a process....a pilgrimmage of growing. It's not a case of we get saved and that's that....we also grow from there. Jesus talked about a harvest ripening, the wheat and tares. The epistles talk about growing into the full stature of Christ. It's not something I expected anyone to disagree with. It was you that was disagreeing with what Jesus said, not someone disagreeing with you. He said that if we deny him before men, he will deny us before the Father, and he does not say that this is a process. Based on that, I said that Jesus would have denied Peter until Peter repented.
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Post by John on Aug 29, 2020 15:35:12 GMT -5
Again, a misrepresentation of what was said. Let us take Peter for instance. He denied the Lord, which means Jesus said He would deny Peter. How do we deal with someone like that? Ignore it, and figure he will come to see his error and get right on his own? Absolutely not! We go to him, show him that he needs to repent, dust himself off, and get up and sin no more. Do not deny Jesus anymore, but he must repent to be restored. That is not rubbing salt in his wound. That is restoration. I am not sure that is something a third party needs to deal with.....nobody dealt with Peter but the Lord. I was just making the point that people need to be ministered to not just preached at. Again wasn't expecting that to be a point of contention, just reminding of something we might have put on the shelf, since we tend to talk mostly about doctrine. Actually, someone did have to go to Peter. The angel told those that saw him to go to the disciples, "and Peter." Had nobody ever gone to Peter, he may never have gotten right with God. Peter had gone away in disgrace until that happened.
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