Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Sept 1, 2020 23:19:42 GMT -5
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
to me, since "addicts" were mentioned, i prefer the term bond slave, lets examine say a porn addict. do you love God and obey... or do you love your idols more? sure you can profess... but i hate my sin... and if your heart was genuine when God hears your words you would be delivered. the end. is He not faithful? He knows your heart. and here is another part to it... do you hate your sin because its wrong and the bible says so... or do you hate your sin because you are failing Gods calling? here lies whether we love God or sin.
i think we are to use every bit of our will to love God. its when we do He shows up and we are changed. when we hate we sinned... against God. when we acknowledge we put distance between us and God. if its convenient you will stay in bondage. if you have Godly sorrow you get delivered if you cant quit on your own. its what He does. Only He can say go and sin no more and it sticks.
if you really love Him... you cant stay in it. cant enjoy it no more. you may fail to resist... but as soon as sin is conceived... Oh God, im dirty, i messed up. if it dont bother you, well, you love sin.
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Post by watchful on Sept 2, 2020 9:52:37 GMT -5
This may surprise you to have anyone say Gideon, but I do not think your words are too hard to hear or legalistic, but I feel like they are a bit too timid in a couple of places. Those who do not hear well done are not going to enter in. They will be cast out. Our position is not safe if we continue in sin, just because we made a one time confession of faith. In a way, it sounds like you are preaching a loss of rewards while keeping salvation message, and I think the danger is far worse than that. Those who reap to the flesh, and build their homes on sinking sand will not enter into heaven, but will be turned away.
I did notice that you used words like "perhaps," when you said that, so I felt like it was possible you were toning things down a bit, out of concern your message was too hard to be received as it was, but the way I see it, if you do not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and follow Him faithfully till the end, you will not have a home in heaven, period. That is the warning I am giving today. It is not just about loss of crowns or mansions or some other kind of rewards like that, but it is about losing your eternal soul.
I hear what you're saying, that is one point, but Gideon is mentioning more than one point....there are those who will be saved so as by fire. It's the truth that some will lose or gain rewards...it's not just a black and white matter of be completely perfect in every way or wind up in hell. Otherwise newer believers who are still carnal and die before having a chance to grow and mature would all be sent to hell. God will judge each soul and He is a righteous judge as well as showing mercy to who He will according to the counsel of His will and wisdom and knowledge.
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Post by watchful on Sept 2, 2020 9:55:10 GMT -5
One other thing. I do not recognize legalism as being a problem. The word is not even mentioned in scripture. It is a manufactured sin that people use to accuse others of doing if they preach against anything they happen to be doing. There is such a thing as the leaven of the Pharisees though.
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2020 10:00:11 GMT -5
One other thing. I do not recognize legalism as being a problem. The word is not even mentioned in scripture. It is a manufactured sin that people use to accuse others of doing if they preach against anything they happen to be doing. There is such a thing as the leaven of the Pharisees though. That has been perverted by the church too. I have a whole teaching that proves it from the Bible. Maybe I will start a thread on that.
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Post by watchful on Sept 2, 2020 10:10:04 GMT -5
There is such a thing as the leaven of the Pharisees though. That has been perverted by the church too. I have a whole teaching that proves it from the Bible. Maybe I will start a thread on that. I am not taking sides with anything....just saying I think that is sometimes what people mean when they are talking about legalism...whether they are right or not to level that accusation at someone is another issue. I take it that what Jesus meant by leaven of the Pharisees is basically those who seek to establish their own righteousness instead of submitting to the righteousness of Christ, they are self righteous and judge others according to their own self-congratulatory attitude of self-righteousness and false sense of superiority. Maybe there is more to it, but that is how I understand it.
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2020 10:24:37 GMT -5
That has been perverted by the church too. I have a whole teaching that proves it from the Bible. Maybe I will start a thread on that. I am not taking sides with anything....just saying I think that is sometimes what people mean when they are talking about legalism...whether they are right or not to level that accusation at someone is another issue. I take it that what Jesus meant by leaven of the Pharisees is basically those who seek to establish their own righteousness instead of submitting to the righteousness of Christ, they are self righteous and judge others according to their own self-congratulatory attitude of self-righteousness and false sense of superiority. Maybe there is more to it, but that is how I understand it. I will just give a short response to this in this thread, so as not to hijack it, but you would be surprised how much Jesus has to say about the Pharisees and the religious leaders of his day. He clearly did not get onto them for being strict adherents to the Law of Moses, as the people were under the entire Law of Moses at the time, and Jesus said they sit in Moses' seat. Still, he goes into a huge rebuke where he pronounces woes unto the Scribes and Pharisees. Their problems, in this abridged version, were mostly dealing with doing things to be seen of men, telling others to follow the law, while not doing it themselves, and being prideful. Of course, they also rejected Jesus, as they felt their position of power was threatened by Him. What you hear today is that they were legalists who were too strict when it came to law keeping. That was not the case. Jesus Christ himself said that if we desire to be great in His Kingdom, we will keep the least commandments and teach them to others. If I get time, I may go through and break this down in depth, but in another thread.
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2020 10:26:29 GMT -5
This may surprise you to have anyone say Gideon, but I do not think your words are too hard to hear or legalistic, but I feel like they are a bit too timid in a couple of places. Those who do not hear well done are not going to enter in. They will be cast out. Our position is not safe if we continue in sin, just because we made a one time confession of faith. In a way, it sounds like you are preaching a loss of rewards while keeping salvation message, and I think the danger is far worse than that. Those who reap to the flesh, and build their homes on sinking sand will not enter into heaven, but will be turned away.
I did notice that you used words like "perhaps," when you said that, so I felt like it was possible you were toning things down a bit, out of concern your message was too hard to be received as it was, but the way I see it, if you do not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and follow Him faithfully till the end, you will not have a home in heaven, period. That is the warning I am giving today. It is not just about loss of crowns or mansions or some other kind of rewards like that, but it is about losing your eternal soul.
I hear what you're saying, that is one point, but Gideon is mentioning more than one point....there are those who will be saved so as by fire. It's the truth that some will lose or gain rewards...it's not just a black and white matter of be completely perfect in every way or wind up in hell. Otherwise newer believers who are still carnal and die before having a chance to grow and mature would all be sent to hell. God will judge each soul and He is a righteous judge as well as showing mercy to who He will according to the counsel of His will and wisdom and knowledge. Using scripture, can you explain what you mean by being saved by fire? Also, do you have any scripture that indicates carnal believers will go to heaven? I am reserving judgment on this until I see what you have to say so I fully understand the Biblical basis for it. Thank you.
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Post by watchful on Sept 2, 2020 10:41:32 GMT -5
I hear what you're saying, that is one point, but Gideon is mentioning more than one point....there are those who will be saved so as by fire. It's the truth that some will lose or gain rewards...it's not just a black and white matter of be completely perfect in every way or wind up in hell. Otherwise newer believers who are still carnal and die before having a chance to grow and mature would all be sent to hell. God will judge each soul and He is a righteous judge as well as showing mercy to who He will according to the counsel of His will and wisdom and knowledge. Using scripture, can you explain what you mean by being saved by fire? Also, do you have any scripture that indicates carnal believers will go to heaven? I am reserving judgment on this until I see what you have to say so I fully understand the Biblical basis for it. Thank you. I think that had better remain a kettle of fish for another day. Just will leave a couple of scriptures. 1Co 3:14 -15 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 1Co 3:1-3 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2020 10:41:47 GMT -5
One other quick point I want to make. It is possible to be carnal minded, as a new believer, but not in sin. For some reason, people automatically equate carnal to sinful, but that is not true.
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2020 10:44:57 GMT -5
Using scripture, can you explain what you mean by being saved by fire? Also, do you have any scripture that indicates carnal believers will go to heaven? I am reserving judgment on this until I see what you have to say so I fully understand the Biblical basis for it. Thank you. I think that had better remain a kettle of fish for another day. Just will leave a couple of scriptures. 1Co 3:14 -15 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 1Co 3:1-3 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? While you were typing, I was addressing the issue of carnal, and how that is not necessarily sinful. People will often mix the two things up. Also, when it speaks of works here, it is speaking of things we do for God, like ministry. Some of those things will not stand, and there will be no reward, but in other cases, there will be a reward. God is looking at all kinds of things, like motive for instance. I should have clarified this before. That is on me, for trying to do too many things at the same time. I was just trying to get my lunch together before my rest break ends.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Sept 2, 2020 11:05:27 GMT -5
I am not taking sides with anything....just saying I think that is sometimes what people mean when they are talking about legalism...whether they are right or not to level that accusation at someone is another issue. I take it that what Jesus meant by leaven of the Pharisees is basically those who seek to establish their own righteousness instead of submitting to the righteousness of Christ, they are self righteous and judge others according to their own self-congratulatory attitude of self-righteousness and false sense of superiority. Maybe there is more to it, but that is how I understand it. I will just give a short response to this in this thread, so as not to hijack it, but you would be surprised how much Jesus has to say about the Pharisees and the religious leaders of his day. He clearly did not get onto them for being strict adherents to the Law of Moses, as the people were under the entire Law of Moses at the time, and Jesus said they sit in Moses' seat. Still, he goes into a huge rebuke where he pronounces woes unto the Scribes and Pharisees. Their problems, in this abridged version, were mostly dealing with doing things to be seen of men, telling others to follow the law, while not doing it themselves, and being prideful. Of course, they also rejected Jesus, as they felt their position of power was threatened by Him. What you hear today is that they were legalists who were too strict when it came to law keeping. That was not the case. Jesus Christ himself said that if we desire to be great in His Kingdom, we will keep the least commandments and teach them to others. If I get time, I may go through and break this down in depth, but in another thread. Oh LORD, if you would give John time to break it down. Amen.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 2, 2020 11:21:57 GMT -5
Hmmmm. So people that struggle with sexual addictions, drug addictions, alcohol, gluttony, simply have not wanted it badly enough for God to intervene? If we cannot tell someone captive to sin how to get free other than to try harder, and if they really wanted to be free, God would free them, they are left no only still imprisoned but also now condemned because they do not want it badly enough. Suppose a man by nature battles anger or impatience. What do you tell him? How does he go from fruitless to bearing fruit? It is one thing to try to obey, but when things are a problem, just choosing to do better is of little value. blessings, Gids It does not matter what the addiction or sin is. They are to resist the temptation and cry out to God. If they are not serious, He will leave them in that state. Read Romans chapter one. Simply coming back to me and acting like I am giving wrong advise does not make me wrong. I stand by my answer.
AMEN . SOUND IT OUT . JESUS never pandered to the WHY one sins . NOPE . HE SIMPLY SAID GO AND SIN NO MORE . I shun the mind of man to hell . and now i know some are infected with it . even one who preaches strong against it , IS them self infected with it . ITS all dung . Forget WHY man sins or struggles . JUST SPEAK THE WORDS OF JESUS . GO AND SIN NO MORE . And the second you cease it , i myself will personaly rebuke you . NEVER fall for the sensual feelings of today . STRIKE THOSE FEELINGS WITH THE WORDS OF GOD . GO and SIN NO MORE . GO and Sin no more . PEROID . if JESUS said and paul said it . ITS ENOUGH . No wonder this world and churches are in trouble THEY PANDER to the human sensual side of things . WHY DO YOU think they are blaming even TRUMP, who i wont vote for , as being the cause of all these riots . WHAT A JOKE and a sick one too . THEY RIOT and do damage , cause they do evil. PEROID . NEVER make an excuse for why one does evil . SIMPLY REBUKE THE HECK OUT OF IT . I AM GOING out hard . I AM GOING OUT HARD . NO more excuses for why one sins . NO MORE . Folks sin and do evil for one reason . THEY LOVE EVIL and hate the light . PEROID . And i do not care who comes aginst me for saying that . JESUS SAID IT FIRST . HE SAID WHY FOLKS choose evil over HIM . THEY LOVE their evil . FEET DOWN , NO MORE Excuses for sin wll no longer be tolerated on my watch . and it breaks my heart that i see at least TWO HERE who are on the wrong side . TOO much excuse for why one does evil . NOT ENOUGH of JESUS WORDS . NOW Go AND SIN NO MORE . i frankly care less how i appear . PEROID .
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Post by frienduff on Sept 2, 2020 11:25:15 GMT -5
There is such a thing as the leaven of the Pharisees though. That has been perverted by the church too. I have a whole teaching that proves it from the Bible. Maybe I will start a thread on that. DO IT . START IT . BEGIN IT . if our approach to sin is not like theirs . WE LOVE SIN and love mens doctrines and our minds . DO IT . Start the thread . i WILL FLOOD IT WITH EVERY REMINDER GOD GIVES ME . ENOUGH with this fake dead sensual stuff i am hearing from folks . CLEAN THOSE HOUSES OUT . I AM SO SORRY if folks THINK THE POWER OF JESUS aintenough and make excuse for sin . BUT NO MORE will it be tolerated on my watch . NO MORE PEROID . NO MORE . ZERO , NONE .
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Post by frienduff on Sept 2, 2020 11:27:21 GMT -5
One other quick point I want to make. It is possible to be carnal minded, as a new believer, but not in sin. For some reason, people automatically equate carnal to sinful, but that is not true. I know you mean well . but that aint how GOD DID IT FOR ME . I hated sin the moment he DREW ME TO JESUS . What i lacked , however , was knowledge .
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2020 11:38:06 GMT -5
One other quick point I want to make. It is possible to be carnal minded, as a new believer, but not in sin. For some reason, people automatically equate carnal to sinful, but that is not true. I know you mean well . but that aint how GOD DID IT FOR ME . I hated sin the moment he DREW ME TO JESUS . What i lacked , however , was knowledge . You mean that there were some things that you now see as sinful, but did not know was wrong immediately? If that is what you mean, I understand that, and till God showed it to you, you were not purposely sinning.
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