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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2020 16:10:06 GMT -5
He Won’t Let Us Go By Marvin Williams
Click on this link for the audio message
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. John 10:28
Today's Scripture & Insight:
John 10:22–30 Julio was biking across the George Washington Bridge—a busy, double-decked thoroughfare connecting New York City and New Jersey—when he encountered a life-or-death situation. A man was standing on a ledge over the Hudson River preparing to jump. Knowing that the police wouldn’t arrive in time, Julio acted quickly. He recalls getting off his bike and spreading out his arms, saying something like: “Don’t do it. We love you.” Then, like a shepherd with a crook, he grabbed the distraught man, and with the help of another passerby, brought him to safety. According to reports, Julio wouldn’t let go of the man, even after he was safe.
Two millennia earlier, in a life-or-death situation, Jesus, the Good Shepherd, said He would lay down His life to save and never let go of those who believed in Him. He summarized how He would bless His sheep: they would know Him personally, have the gift of eternal life, would never perish, and would be secure in His care. This security didn’t depend on the ability of the frail and feeble sheep, but on the sufficiency of the Shepherd who’ll never let one be snatched “out of [His] hand” (John 10:28–29).
When we were distraught and feeling hopeless, Jesus rescued us; now we can feel safe and secure in our relationship with Him. He loves us, pursues us, finds us, saves us, and promises to never let us go.
Reflect & Pray What makes you feel insecure in your relationship with Jesus? How do you feel knowing that your security in Him depends on His sufficiency and not your weakness?
Jesus, when I let go of You because of my sin, You never let go of me because of Your grace.
SCRIPTURE INSIGHT The Festival of Dedication, also known as Hanukkah or the Feast of Lights, celebrates the rededication of the temple in 164 bc after it had been desecrated by the Seleucid ruler Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 167 bc. It’s in this context that Jesus says, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), which recalls the central belief of Judaism known as the shema, “The Lord our God, the Lord is one” (Deuteronomy 6:4). By recalling the shema, Jesus identifies Himself with the God of Israel. For Jesus to be one with the Father is nothing less than a claim to deity. Con Campbell
John 10:22-30 King James Version 22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Oct 3, 2020 13:50:25 GMT -5
while its true He wont let anyone snatch us from His hand... no scheme of man or power of hell... it really is not true he will not let us go. Because He will, and the scriptures tell us He will. the spiritual aspect of the below verse is the temple solomon was to build, and today its our body is The Holy Spirits temple. God expects us to prepare His temple today, our body, just the same as Solomon and David did prepare the physical temple, with GOLD (tried in the fire)and all of the finest most pure things they could acquire. this is what David told his son Solomon when Solomon was about to take over as king and build the temple... 1Ch 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever. its really up to us as if we abandon Him, He will abandon us. He Is a Jealous God. He desires our devotion to Him first, and He even commands it of us. anything we put infront of Him is an idol, and idolatry is condemnation, is sin, is one thing the NT lists as doing so will send you to hell. i.e. separation from God. then of course we still have in Ezekiel where God says if a righteous man turns and does wickedness his righteousness will not be remembered and he will die. while it is nice no external source can effect our salvation... we can forfeit the gift of God. and this is why we must be wise to the enemys ways as he will try to get you to move out from under Gods shadow and protection. out of His promises... and he dies so by influencing your very own actions. But, the saying God will never let go of us... its only true as long as we dont let go of Him. If we like dogs return to our vomit, and we do not turn back... you are abandoning God.
BTW... when i had lived vicariously aften being enlightened, and had hardened my heart to sin, and gone my own way... the above verse out of 1st chronicles 28... thats the very verse The Holy Spirit took me to when i was halfheartedly repenting. He was telling me my sacrifice was not acceptable, and if i did not truly repent, i had no part in Him, no portion. I tell you of a certainty... the tone was austere. He was not joking. He told me i was very close to being cast off forever, that He would be done with me. He did still desire reconciliation, but only if I did right... that was the only way. this is why i do not ever not speak up when osas is being discussed or even being tip toed around. you better be living Holy. better be walking upright. better be preparing His temple... like a bride adorned for her Groom.
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Post by frienduff on Oct 3, 2020 15:49:03 GMT -5
while its true He wont let anyone snatch us from His hand... no scheme of man or power of hell... it really is not true he will not let us go. Because He will, and the scriptures tell us He will. the spiritual aspect of the below verse is the temple solomon was to build, and today its our body is The Holy Spirits temple. God expects us to prepare His temple today, our body, just the same as Solomon and David did prepare the physical temple, with GOLD (tried in the fire)and all of the finest most pure things they could acquire. this is what David told his son Solomon when Solomon was about to take over as king and build the temple... 1Ch 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever. its really up to us as if we abandon Him, He will abandon us. He Is a Jealous God. He desires our devotion to Him first, and He even commands it of us. anything we put infront of Him is an idol, and idolatry is condemnation, is sin, is one thing the NT lists as doing so will send you to hell. i.e. separation from God. then of course we still have in Ezekiel where God says if a righteous man turns and does wickedness his righteousness will not be remembered and he will die. while it is nice no external source can effect our salvation... we can forfeit the gift of God. and this is why we must be wise to the enemys ways as he will try to get you to move out from under Gods shadow and protection. out of His promises... and he dies so by influencing your very own actions. But, the saying God will never let go of us... its only true as long as we dont let go of Him. If we like dogs return to our vomit, and we do not turn back... you are abandoning God.
BTW... when i had lived vicariously aften being enlightened, and had hardened my heart to sin, and gone my own way... the above verse out of 1st chronicles 28... thats the very verse The Holy Spirit took me to when i was halfheartedly repenting. He was telling me my sacrifice was not acceptable, and if i did not truly repent, i had no part in Him, no portion. I tell you of a certainty... the tone was austere. He was not joking. He told me i was very close to being cast off forever, that He would be done with me. He did still desire reconciliation, but only if I did right... that was the only way. this is why i do not ever not speak up when osas is being discussed or even being tip toed around. you better be living Holy. better be walking upright. better be preparing His temple... like a bride adorned for her Groom.
Cletus has spoken truth . My friends and all who name JESUS , we must diligently begin afresh in those bibles and start really learning GOD , start really learning JESUS before its too late forever . WE must armour up NOW .
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Oct 4, 2020 0:47:22 GMT -5
I really hope you dont feel like i am stepping on your toes Les. I love you bro. But my duty is to speak the truth... over my life. I have been charged to do so.
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Post by watchful on Oct 4, 2020 9:15:41 GMT -5
Well I have to agree with everyone here. There are things in the word that appear to be contradictory but aren't really. There is an aspect of God's word that it is alive and active....it does not return void but accomplishes the purpose for which it is sent, when He sends it. The Lord knows when a child of His is in need of reassurance of His strength and keeping power, or of comfort or an encouragement or whether we need a warning or rebuke or admonishment, at any given time. There are even things in the word that seem to be contradictory but actually are aimed for different people at different stages of growth. This is another reason we want to serve in the new way of the Spirit rather than the old way of the letter carved in stone, and even that is something we grow in.
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Post by watchful on Oct 5, 2020 7:48:58 GMT -5
Our carnal mind is enmity with God. It cannot perceive or obey the things of the Spirit. The things of the Spirit are foolishness to the carnal mind. We need to have the laws and word of God written on the tables of our heart (our spirit), no longer on the hard tables of the carnal mind, the two hemispheres of the mind of flesh. Because the words of God and Christ are SPIRIT and life.
Trusting in the horses and chariots of Egypt, trusting in man and his carnal mind all comes from the carnal mind and not trusting in God. It is the way that seemeth right to the carnal mind of man....but leads to death. Man's solutions to sin problems always leads to death...they create other often worse problems and sin....because that which is of the flesh can only give birth to flesh (death). And only that which is of the Spirit gives birth to spirit (LIFE!).
God will help us get to that place if we are willing, but ultimately we need to stop halting between two opinions - being double minded trying to serve two masters - and choose we this day which one we will serve...either our carnal mind (flesh) or the mind of Christ (spirit and faith).
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Post by John on Oct 5, 2020 8:14:57 GMT -5
Our carnal mind is enmity with God. It cannot perceive or obey the things of the Spirit. The things of the Spirit are foolishness to the carnal mind. We need to have the laws and word of God written on the tables of our heart (our spirit), no longer on the hard tables of the carnal mind, the two hemispheres of the mind of flesh. Because the words of God and Christ are SPIRIT and life. Trusting in the horses and chariots of Egypt, trusting in man and his carnal mind all comes from the carnal mind and not trusting in God. It is the way that seemeth right to the carnal mind of man....but leads to death. Man's solutions to sin problems always leads to death...they create other often worse problems and sin....because that which is of the flesh can only give birth to flesh (death). And only that which is of the Spirit gives birth to spirit (LIFE!). God will help us get to that place if we are willing, but ultimately we need to stop halting between two opinions - being double minded trying to serve two masters - and choose we this day which one we will serve...either our carnal mind (flesh) or the mind of Christ (spirit and faith). The problem we always run into here is trying to discern what a person means when they say they are following the mind of Christ as opposed to the carnal mind, or following the "new way of the Spirit," or the "old way of the letter carved in stone." Because this kind of language means different things to different people.
What do you mean when you speak of the "old way of the letter carved in stone?" Is that the Law of Moses in it's entirety in the Old Testament? Is it the writings of Paul, James, Jude, John and Peter in the New Testament? Is it the teachings of Jesus that were written down by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? That is the first thing we need to have cleared up.
The second thing that needs to be cleared up is what do you mean by following the "new way of the Spirit?" Does that mean being led about by how we feel, and assuming that how we feel is the way the Spirit feels? I am just not sure what you are saying here.
As for the supposed contradictions in scripture, I agree that there are none. There are some scriptures that the eternal security crowd use to promote their beliefs that are completely out of context, and if you read the entire passage, it is apparent. There are some scriptures that the eternal security crowd uses that are speaking of God's foreknowledge. He created us all knowing who are His elect, and since He knows the beginning and the ending, He knows who will remain faithful till the end. OSAS is a doctrine that was created in large part by taking a handful of scriptures from the New Testament, and misusing them, while adding man-made logic to them. If you go back and look at what they teach, you will see they have less than a dozen verses from here and there they recycle and mix carnal logic to come up with their doctrine.
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Post by watchful on Oct 5, 2020 9:56:18 GMT -5
Our carnal mind is enmity with God. It cannot perceive or obey the things of the Spirit. The things of the Spirit are foolishness to the carnal mind. We need to have the laws and word of God written on the tables of our heart (our spirit), no longer on the hard tables of the carnal mind, the two hemispheres of the mind of flesh. Because the words of God and Christ are SPIRIT and life. Trusting in the horses and chariots of Egypt, trusting in man and his carnal mind all comes from the carnal mind and not trusting in God. It is the way that seemeth right to the carnal mind of man....but leads to death. Man's solutions to sin problems always leads to death...they create other often worse problems and sin....because that which is of the flesh can only give birth to flesh (death). And only that which is of the Spirit gives birth to spirit (LIFE!). God will help us get to that place if we are willing, but ultimately we need to stop halting between two opinions - being double minded trying to serve two masters - and choose we this day which one we will serve...either our carnal mind (flesh) or the mind of Christ (spirit and faith). The problem we always run into here is trying to discern what a person means when they say they are following the mind of Christ as opposed to the carnal mind, or following the "new way of the Spirit," or the "old way of the letter carved in stone." Because this kind of language means different things to different people.
What do you mean when you speak of the "old way of the letter carved in stone?" Is that the Law of Moses in it's entirety in the Old Testament? Is it the writings of Paul, James, Jude, John and Peter in the New Testament? Is it the teachings of Jesus that were written down by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? That is the first thing we need to have cleared up.
The second thing that needs to be cleared up is what do you mean by following the "new way of the Spirit?" Does that mean being led about by how we feel, and assuming that how we feel is the way the Spirit feels? I am just not sure what you are saying here.
As for the supposed contradictions in scripture, I agree that there are none. There are some scriptures that the eternal security crowd use to promote their beliefs that are completely out of context, and if you read the entire passage, it is apparent. There are some scriptures that the eternal security crowd uses that are speaking of God's foreknowledge. He created us all knowing who are His elect, and since He knows the beginning and the ending, He knows who will remain faithful till the end. OSAS is a doctrine that was created in large part by taking a handful of scriptures from the New Testament, and misusing them, while adding man-made logic to them. If you go back and look at what they teach, you will see they have less than a dozen verses from here and there they recycle and mix carnal logic to come up with their doctrine.
No it's not about feelings and emotions, since these also belong to the flesh just as much as our carnal mind. But it would be better to ask God what HE means by those things brother. All I am saying is, they are true, and these are things that we grow and increase in as we die out to everything that is of our flesh.
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Post by John on Oct 5, 2020 10:31:08 GMT -5
The problem we always run into here is trying to discern what a person means when they say they are following the mind of Christ as opposed to the carnal mind, or following the "new way of the Spirit," or the "old way of the letter carved in stone." Because this kind of language means different things to different people.
What do you mean when you speak of the "old way of the letter carved in stone?" Is that the Law of Moses in it's entirety in the Old Testament? Is it the writings of Paul, James, Jude, John and Peter in the New Testament? Is it the teachings of Jesus that were written down by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? That is the first thing we need to have cleared up.
The second thing that needs to be cleared up is what do you mean by following the "new way of the Spirit?" Does that mean being led about by how we feel, and assuming that how we feel is the way the Spirit feels? I am just not sure what you are saying here.
As for the supposed contradictions in scripture, I agree that there are none. There are some scriptures that the eternal security crowd use to promote their beliefs that are completely out of context, and if you read the entire passage, it is apparent. There are some scriptures that the eternal security crowd uses that are speaking of God's foreknowledge. He created us all knowing who are His elect, and since He knows the beginning and the ending, He knows who will remain faithful till the end. OSAS is a doctrine that was created in large part by taking a handful of scriptures from the New Testament, and misusing them, while adding man-made logic to them. If you go back and look at what they teach, you will see they have less than a dozen verses from here and there they recycle and mix carnal logic to come up with their doctrine.
No it's not about feelings and emotions, since these also belong to the flesh just as much as our carnal mind. But it would be better to ask God what HE means by those things brother. All I am saying is, they are true, and these are things that we grow and increase in as we die out to everything that is of our flesh. I do agree with you about feelings and emotions being untrustworthy. There is no question about that. If that is not what you mean, all I can conclude is that you are saying that the Spirit is leading you to the correct interpretation of the text, as opposed to the interpretation the carnal mind might reveal. Is that what you are saying? If it is, I cannot disagree with you in principle, but I am sure you must be aware that people will say the Spirit is leading them, when it is obvious to others it is the flesh. I am not making any accusations towards you in saying that. I am just making an obvious observation. Also, most people think they are the one with the mind of God, so what do you do when 2 people both claim they are being led of the Spirit when they are completely at odds with each other? I would have to think you would say that you know you are right, and therefore they must be wrong, but I am sure they would say the same thing about you. Still, there is no question that the Spirit of God will help us rightly understand the Bible.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Oct 5, 2020 19:37:14 GMT -5
Well I have to agree with everyone here. There are things in the word that appear to be contradictory but aren't really. There is an aspect of God's word that it is alive and active....it does not return void but accomplishes the purpose for which it is sent, when He sends it. The Lord knows when a child of His is in need of reassurance of His strength and keeping power, or of comfort or an encouragement or whether we need a warning or rebuke or admonishment, at any given time. There are even things in the word that seem to be contradictory but actually are aimed for different people at different stages of growth. This is another reason we want to serve in the new way of the Spirit rather than the old way of the letter carved in stone, and even that is something we grow in. the old way, carved in stone was only to bring a person to the point they realize by striving with their chains that they by their own ability can not obtain freedom, and thus are doomed. it is then in desperation and brokenness that will bring a whole heart to cry out unto God... and confessing the truth, which is i am sorry God but i cant not do this, have mercy on me a sinner. and then is when we experience The Spirit... when you feel Him reach inside you... and pull it out.
there is zero contradictions in the bible. when we think we have found one... the error is in our own understanding. if we ask, seek, and knock He will show us truth... if we ask for understanding He will give it, liberally. we must not cherry pick scriptures, only focusing on the good parts we want or like if we desire to know truth, and more importantly... to live. Those in Jeremiahs day did this... oh no dont prophecy to us these things, but prophecy to us whats smooth and blessings. they really didnt want to hear the truth, which was it was their God they claimed to serve and love... it was He who brought them into captivity into a heathen land. But Jeremiah told them the truth... not so... get ready to stay awhile. have children even. and pray for the peace of the city where God brought you into captivity... because if it goes well for the city it will go well for you. today we have those who only want whats smooth and blessing too. they want the promises... but not A LORD. They want prosperity... but not the valley where things grow. Some want lofty positions in the church, but do not want to serve. they want to only speak the positive words that are happy in the bible... but they do not want to publish the Truth as it is either undesirable or unprofitable.
You see, Jeremiah did not butter it up. He did not change the message. He spoke as The Lord gave it... in Truth. And the Truth is if you deny Him, He will deny you. If you walk away (parabanio) and do not turn around... there is no strong right hand to hold you up and you will simply fall right into hells mouth when you die. And even now as you read this there are many who confess to be a Christian, many who have believed no matter what they do they will be saved... but no one ever told them you have to be a practicing Christian... you have to be living it... walking the walk. not just honoring Him with your lips. its no coincidence Jesus did say many would say unto me in that day didnt we do many great things in your name?... and He will reply i never knew you, depart ye who work iniquity.
I am going to do like Jeremiah did. the way to the life is the truth. its narrow.
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Post by frienduff on Oct 5, 2020 19:56:11 GMT -5
Well I have to agree with everyone here. There are things in the word that appear to be contradictory but aren't really. There is an aspect of God's word that it is alive and active....it does not return void but accomplishes the purpose for which it is sent, when He sends it. The Lord knows when a child of His is in need of reassurance of His strength and keeping power, or of comfort or an encouragement or whether we need a warning or rebuke or admonishment, at any given time. There are even things in the word that seem to be contradictory but actually are aimed for different people at different stages of growth. This is another reason we want to serve in the new way of the Spirit rather than the old way of the letter carved in stone, and even that is something we grow in. the old way, carved in stone was only to bring a person to the point they realize by striving with their chains that they by their own ability can not obtain freedom, and thus are doomed. it is then in desperation and brokenness that will bring a whole heart to cry out unto God... and confessing the truth, which is i am sorry God but i cant not do this, have mercy on me a sinner. and then is when we experience The Spirit... when you feel Him reach inside you... and pull it out.
there is zero contradictions in the bible. when we think we have found one... the error is in our own understanding. if we ask, seek, and knock He will show us truth... if we ask for understanding He will give it, liberally. we must not cherry pick scriptures, only focusing on the good parts we want or like if we desire to know truth, and more importantly... to live. Those in Jeremiahs day did this... oh no dont prophecy to us these things, but prophecy to us whats smooth and blessings. they really didnt want to hear the truth, which was it was their God they claimed to serve and love... it was He who brought them into captivity into a heathen land. But Jeremiah told them the truth... not so... get ready to stay awhile. have children even. and pray for the peace of the city where God brought you into captivity... because if it goes well for the city it will go well for you. today we have those who only want whats smooth and blessing too. they want the promises... but not A LORD. They want prosperity... but not the valley where things grow. Some want lofty positions in the church, but do not want to serve. they want to only speak the positive words that are happy in the bible... but they do not want to publish the Truth as it is either undesirable or unprofitable.
You see, Jeremiah did not butter it up. He did not change the message. He spoke as The Lord gave it... in Truth. And the Truth is if you deny Him, He will deny you. If you walk away (parabanio) and do not turn around... there is no strong right hand to hold you up and you will simply fall right into hells mouth when you die. And even now as you read this there are many who confess to be a Christian, many who have believed no matter what they do they will be saved... but no one ever told them you have to be a practicing Christian... you have to be living it... walking the walk. not just honoring Him with your lips. its no coincidence Jesus did say many would say unto me in that day didnt we do many great things in your name?... and He will reply i never knew you, depart ye who work iniquity.
I am going to do like Jeremiah did. the way to the life is the truth. its narrow.
Zero contradictions my friend . You are correct . And we cannot butter it up . OH just let the glorious truth be sounded out .
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Post by watchful on Oct 6, 2020 8:34:14 GMT -5
There are things in the bible that only appear contradictory until the Holy Spirit resolves them....but also there are some things that really are contradictory until we realize they are different truths and instruction to be applied to different people at different stages of their walk and growth. Mature adults (or those ready to start maturing) are not treated the same as young children.
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Post by frienduff on Oct 6, 2020 9:50:49 GMT -5
There are things in the bible that only appear contradictory until the Holy Spirit resolves them....but also there are some things that really are contradictory until we realize they are different truths and instruction to be applied to different people at different stages of their walk and growth. Mature adults (or those ready to start maturing) are not treated the same as young children. By grace sister , i have read that bible for hours daily , every day for over fourteen years . I do not say this to boast in me as though i know it all . I say it , because i have never seen different truths . The truth i first learned has never changed and their are not different truths . I think you mean to say , we grow deeper in our UNDERSTANDING . And when we grow deeper in our understanding we realize , there is only one truth , the bible does not contradict and we know when it comes to sin and error . We rebuke the new as much as we would a mature one . The approach of sin must always be to have it ceased asap . When i was a new one , when i seen grave warnings it did not cause me to run off . Cause all i read was the bible . AND if we want to see grave and serious , READ THOSE WORDS . Yet they never ran me off . SO i say we can approach anyone just like those men did , just like JESUS Did . Be encouraged sister .
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Post by frienduff on Oct 6, 2020 9:56:23 GMT -5
When it comes to meats , yeah now that we cannot choke down a new ones throat . But when it comes to sin . WE approach it just like JESUS , and all them apostels did . When it comes to teaching JESUS sayings , we teach them all . We teach everything them apostels wrote as well . Now let us rejoice in our glorious KING JESUS . The more we read and the more we feed from that bible and instruct it to others , the better off the church is . NOW SING TO THE GLORIOUS KING my friends . SING , SING to the GLORIOUS KING .
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Post by frienduff on Oct 6, 2020 10:00:00 GMT -5
There are things in the bible that only appear contradictory until the Holy Spirit resolves them....but also there are some things that really are contradictory until we realize they are different truths and instruction to be applied to different people at different stages of their walk and growth. Mature adults (or those ready to start maturing) are not treated the same as young children. What paul wrote to the church . He wrote to some who were seasoned and many who were babes . AND it was the SAME INSTRUCTION that Applied to them all . Think on that my dear sister . EVERY letter in the new testament and every gosple , every instruction given , applied to ALL believers of all areas in their walk . Its when it comes to some meats we might have learned , we have to understand that those spiritual meats can be hard to be understood by the newer ones . You be encouraged sister .
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