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Post by watchful on Oct 6, 2020 10:37:07 GMT -5
There are things in the bible that only appear contradictory until the Holy Spirit resolves them....but also there are some things that really are contradictory until we realize they are different truths and instruction to be applied to different people at different stages of their walk and growth. Mature adults (or those ready to start maturing) are not treated the same as young children. What paul wrote to the church . He wrote to some who were seasoned and many who were babes . AND it was the SAME INSTRUCTION that Applied to them all . Think on that my dear sister . EVERY letter in the new testament and every gosple , every instruction given , applied to ALL believers of all areas in their walk . Its when it comes to some meats we might have learned , we have to understand that those spiritual meats can be hard to be understood by the newer ones . You be encouraged sister . Here, I'll show you some examples in scripture, of what I'm talking about (not a complete list I'm sure). Where it says in one place that if we would judge ourselves we will not be judged with the world........but elsewhere it says the spiritual man judges all things but is judged by no one, and that he doesn't even judge himself. Also where we are told to fear the Lord and work out our salvation with fear and trembling, but elsewhere it says that perfect love casts out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and that we are not to be in bondage again to fear that comes from being under Law. Here's another one: the bible says that pastors, teachers, apostles, prophets, evangelists are given for edifying and building up of the Body of Christ, but elsewhere it says 'as for you the anointing you have received teaches you of all things and you don't need anyone to teach you'. We are admonished in scripture to grow.....but the things we need when we are not yet matured, are not all the same things that apply to "you who are spiritual" and who have matured. A father would tell his five year old son, don't you dare touch the tractor or something bad will happen to you.....but at age 16 the father would be saying to the same son, get on that tractor and help me in the field, here I'll show you how to drive it. And at age 30 the son doesn't even need to be told to get out in the field and work anymore, he has become an autonomous adult and partner in the father's business and is ready to inherit it. That adult son has already been tutored and trained up in the Law and doesn't need to continue being so. So there are different words/instructions in scripture that apply at different levels of maturity, so to speak. They only seem contradictory in a sense, if we don't realize that. The Lord will minister different aspects of His word, by His Spirit, to different people according to their specific need at a given time.
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Post by frienduff on Oct 6, 2020 14:29:51 GMT -5
Here, I'll show you some examples in scripture, of what I'm talking about (not a complete list I'm sure). Where it says in one place that if we would judge ourselves we will not be judged with the world........but elsewhere it says the spiritual man judges all things but is judged by no one, and that he doesn't even judge himself. Also where we are told to fear the Lord and work out our salvation with fear and trembling, but elsewhere it says that perfect love casts out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and that we are not to be in bondage again to fear that comes from being under Law. Here's another one: the bible says that pastors, teachers, apostles, prophets, evangelists are given for edifying and building up of the Body of Christ, but elsewhere it says 'as for you the anointing you have received teaches you of all things and you don't need anyone to teach you'. We are admonished in scripture to grow.....but the things we need when we are not yet matured, are not all the same things that apply to "you who are spiritual" and who have matured. A father would tell his five year old son, don't you dare touch the tractor or something bad will happen to you.....but at age 16 the father would be saying to the same son, get on that tractor and help me in the field, here I'll show you how to drive it. And at age 30 the son doesn't even need to be told to get out in the field and work anymore, he has become an autonomous adult and partner in the father's business and is ready to inherit it. That adult son has already been tutored and trained up in the Law and doesn't need to continue being so. So there are different words/instructions in scripture that apply at different levels of maturity, so to speak. They only seem contradictory in a sense, if we don't realize that. The Lord will minister different aspects of His word, by His Spirit, to different people according to their specific need at a given time. And not a one of them are a contradiction . The more we read that bible and heed truth it all comes together .
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Post by watchful on Oct 6, 2020 16:23:12 GMT -5
Here, I'll show you some examples in scripture, of what I'm talking about (not a complete list I'm sure). Where it says in one place that if we would judge ourselves we will not be judged with the world........but elsewhere it says the spiritual man judges all things but is judged by no one, and that he doesn't even judge himself. Also where we are told to fear the Lord and work out our salvation with fear and trembling, but elsewhere it says that perfect love casts out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and that we are not to be in bondage again to fear that comes from being under Law. Here's another one: the bible says that pastors, teachers, apostles, prophets, evangelists are given for edifying and building up of the Body of Christ, but elsewhere it says 'as for you the anointing you have received teaches you of all things and you don't need anyone to teach you'. We are admonished in scripture to grow.....but the things we need when we are not yet matured, are not all the same things that apply to "you who are spiritual" and who have matured. A father would tell his five year old son, don't you dare touch the tractor or something bad will happen to you.....but at age 16 the father would be saying to the same son, get on that tractor and help me in the field, here I'll show you how to drive it. And at age 30 the son doesn't even need to be told to get out in the field and work anymore, he has become an autonomous adult and partner in the father's business and is ready to inherit it. That adult son has already been tutored and trained up in the Law and doesn't need to continue being so. So there are different words/instructions in scripture that apply at different levels of maturity, so to speak. They only seem contradictory in a sense, if we don't realize that. The Lord will minister different aspects of His word, by His Spirit, to different people according to their specific need at a given time. And not a one of them are a contradiction . The more we read that bible and heed truth it all comes together . The point I'm making is that the word of God is alive and active and doesn't return void.....when it isn't carved in stones of the carnal mind and being handled as a ministration of death. The Lord knows whether a person needs reassurance, or some other thing like a warning etc. (Things only seems contradictory to our carnal mind.)
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Post by watchful on Oct 6, 2020 16:52:48 GMT -5
There are things in the bible that only appear contradictory until the Holy Spirit resolves them....but also there are some things that really are contradictory until we realize they are different truths and instruction to be applied to different people at different stages of their walk and growth. Mature adults (or those ready to start maturing) are not treated the same as young children. By grace sister , i have read that bible for hours daily , every day for over fourteen years . I do not say this to boast in me as though i know it all . I say it , because i have never seen different truths . The truth i first learned has never changed and their are not different truths . I think you mean to say , we grow deeper in our UNDERSTANDING . And when we grow deeper in our understanding we realize , there is only one truth , the bible does not contradict and we know when it comes to sin and error . We rebuke the new as much as we would a mature one . The approach of sin must always be to have it ceased asap . When i was a new one , when i seen grave warnings it did not cause me to run off . Cause all i read was the bible . AND if we want to see grave and serious , READ THOSE WORDS . Yet they never ran me off . SO i say we can approach anyone just like those men did , just like JESUS Did . Be encouraged sister . I think you are misunderstanding me brother. You said it yourself that you dont try to choke the meat of the word down a new believer's throat. Some truths are for less mature believers and some are for the more mature in the Lord. Things in the word of God that we are not ready for yet, we read them but tend to just overlook or pass them by.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Oct 6, 2020 18:08:45 GMT -5
There are things in the bible that only appear contradictory until the Holy Spirit resolves them....but also there are some things that really are contradictory until we realize they are different truths and instruction to be applied to different people at different stages of their walk and growth. Mature adults (or those ready to start maturing) are not treated the same as young children. can you provide one instance where different truths are found in scripture?
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Cletus
Senior Member
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Post by Cletus on Oct 6, 2020 18:41:45 GMT -5
Here, I'll show you some examples in scripture, of what I'm talking about (not a complete list I'm sure). Where it says in one place that if we would judge ourselves we will not be judged with the world........but elsewhere it says the spiritual man judges all things but is judged by no one, and that he doesn't even judge himself. 1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. in verse 31 the first word for judge and the second are different in the greek... the first means to separate thoroughly,meaning not just from our sinful ways but also from condemning ourselves before we eat, drink, speak, etc... but also seperate ourselves from profane sinners. the second word for judge which is a different word means to distinguish, and in this context its talking about God not inflicting us with disease or death. actual judgement. 1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. i do not see where it says He does not even judge himself. OT and new God is instructing us to judge our own selves.
Also where we are told to fear the Lord and work out our salvation with fear and trembling, but elsewhere it says that perfect love casts out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and that we are not to be in bondage again to fear that comes from being under Law. I do not see a contradiction in truth or instruction here. I do not even see a connection between the two to be opposite or contrary. The Fear is different. same word in greek but way different internally. Here's another one: the bible says that pastors, teachers, apostles, prophets, evangelists are given for edifying and building up of the Body of Christ, but elsewhere it says 'as for you the anointing you have received teaches you of all things and you don't need anyone to teach you'. 1Jn 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. that scriptures context is a warning about antichrists sneaking in. John was coming in behind the wolves Paul warned those in Acts about would come. So its not contradictory as the wolves were teaching another gospel... something different. in other words He is assuring them in the original gospel and not to go after something "new" and He points to The Spirit as to lead them into truth and not wolves into error, which these specific wolves did bring about horrendous false gnostic teaching in the second century. However, those called into a ministry are to preach and teach the body. its Gods order. 1 John is saying not to be taught by just any man.
We are admonished in scripture to grow.....but the things we need when we are not yet matured, are not all the same things that apply to "you who are spiritual" and who have matured. A father would tell his five year old son, don't you dare touch the tractor or something bad will happen to you.....but at age 16 the father would be saying to the same son, get on that tractor and help me in the field, here I'll show you how to drive it. And at age 30 the son doesn't even need to be told to get out in the field and work anymore, he has become an autonomous adult and partner in the father's business and is ready to inherit it. That adult son has already been tutored and trained up in the Law and doesn't need to continue being so. So there are different words/instructions in scripture that apply at different levels of maturity, so to speak. They only seem contradictory in a sense, if we don't realize that. The Lord will minister different aspects of His word, by His Spirit, to different people according to their specific need at a given time. i can see how some of these scriptures could back up your claim about different times in different lives, but i still having given years of my life to searching for even one contradiction... i come up empty handed on it. every single time.... its in our mind where the misunderstanding is. I really thought i had an ah-ha moment when i read about ornan the jebusite and how much money that was given for the threshingfloor, from i think kings and chronicles, but then i found out the span of time between each book written and the language barrier of each original writing. when i compared each cultures money system... it came out to be the exact amount but with translation to English being not so explanatory on that. thats when i gave up my quest and trusted God's word fully. I have always smiled inside when someone says the bible has contradictions... i always respond... show me.
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Post by John on Oct 6, 2020 18:42:59 GMT -5
Here, I'll show you some examples in scripture, of what I'm talking about (not a complete list I'm sure). Where it says in one place that if we would judge ourselves we will not be judged with the world........but elsewhere it says the spiritual man judges all things but is judged by no one, and that he doesn't even judge himself. Also where we are told to fear the Lord and work out our salvation with fear and trembling, but elsewhere it says that perfect love casts out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and that we are not to be in bondage again to fear that comes from being under Law. Here's another one: the bible says that pastors, teachers, apostles, prophets, evangelists are given for edifying and building up of the Body of Christ, but elsewhere it says 'as for you the anointing you have received teaches you of all things and you don't need anyone to teach you'. We are admonished in scripture to grow.....but the things we need when we are not yet matured, are not all the same things that apply to "you who are spiritual" and who have matured. A father would tell his five year old son, don't you dare touch the tractor or something bad will happen to you.....but at age 16 the father would be saying to the same son, get on that tractor and help me in the field, here I'll show you how to drive it. And at age 30 the son doesn't even need to be told to get out in the field and work anymore, he has become an autonomous adult and partner in the father's business and is ready to inherit it. That adult son has already been tutored and trained up in the Law and doesn't need to continue being so. So there are different words/instructions in scripture that apply at different levels of maturity, so to speak. They only seem contradictory in a sense, if we don't realize that. The Lord will minister different aspects of His word, by His Spirit, to different people according to their specific need at a given time. In reference to the spiritual man judging all things, but being judged of no one and not judging himself, can you please post the scriptures you are referring to, rather than just referencing them.
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling is saying that we are to fear God. The other scripture you are referring to is not speaking of the fear of the Lord, but fear in a general sense. If we have God on our side, there is no need to fear man and what he can do, or anything in the world for that matter. It is not saying that some need fear the Lord and others should not.
I do not know of any scripture that says that the anointing that you have makes it where you no longer need Pastors, Teachers, Evangelists, Prophets and Apostles. I have never read that anywhere. Can you post the scriptures you are referring to?
The example you gave about a Father and his child in his youth as opposed to as an adult is just earthly wisdom. It is not a Bible example. People use examples like that all the time to promote things that are not Biblical. I do not believe that God is expecting one person to obey something, but not another, when it comes to Bible-based teachings. The young person is not under certain parts of the Bible where the older Christian is not. The older and more mature person is able to understand deeper truths, but that has nothing to do with being under a different standard. You need to post scriptures in context for us to examine if you are going to make points like that.
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Post by John on Oct 6, 2020 18:46:26 GMT -5
Here, I'll show you some examples in scripture, of what I'm talking about (not a complete list I'm sure). Where it says in one place that if we would judge ourselves we will not be judged with the world........but elsewhere it says the spiritual man judges all things but is judged by no one, and that he doesn't even judge himself. 1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. in verse 31 the first word for judge and the second are different in the greek... the first means to separate thoroughly,meaning not just from our sinful ways but also from condemning ourselves before we eat, drink, speak, etc... but also seperate ourselves from profane sinners. the second word for judge which is a different word means to distinguish, and in this context its talking about God not inflicting us with disease or death. actual judgement. 1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. i do not see where it says He does not even judge himself. OT and new God is instructing us to judge our own selves.
Also where we are told to fear the Lord and work out our salvation with fear and trembling, but elsewhere it says that perfect love casts out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and that we are not to be in bondage again to fear that comes from being under Law. I do not see a contradiction in truth or instruction here. I do not even see a connection between the two to be opposite or contrary. Here's another one: the bible says that pastors, teachers, apostles, prophets, evangelists are given for edifying and building up of the Body of Christ, but elsewhere it says 'as for you the anointing you have received teaches you of all things and you don't need anyone to teach you'. 1Jn 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. that scriptures context is a warning about antichrists sneaking in. John was coming in behind the wolves Paul warned those in Acts about would come. So its not contradictory as the wolves were teaching another gospel... something different. in other words He is assuring them in the original gospel and not to go after something "new" and He points to The Spirit as to lead them into truth and not wolves into error, which these specific wolves did bring about horrendous false gnostic teaching in the second century. However, those called into a ministry are to preach and teach the body. its Gods order. 1 John is saying not to be taught by just any man.
We are admonished in scripture to grow.....but the things we need when we are not yet matured, are not all the same things that apply to "you who are spiritual" and who have matured. A father would tell his five year old son, don't you dare touch the tractor or something bad will happen to you.....but at age 16 the father would be saying to the same son, get on that tractor and help me in the field, here I'll show you how to drive it. And at age 30 the son doesn't even need to be told to get out in the field and work anymore, he has become an autonomous adult and partner in the father's business and is ready to inherit it. That adult son has already been tutored and trained up in the Law and doesn't need to continue being so. So there are different words/instructions in scripture that apply at different levels of maturity, so to speak. They only seem contradictory in a sense, if we don't realize that. The Lord will minister different aspects of His word, by His Spirit, to different people according to their specific need at a given time. i can see how some of these scriptures could back up your claim about different times in different lives, but i still having given years of my life to searching for even one contradiction... i come up empty handed on it. every single time.... its in our mind where the misunderstanding is. I really thought i had an ah-ha moment when i read about ornan the jebusite and how much money that was given for the threshingfloor, from i think kings and chronicles, but then i found out the span of time between each book written and the language barrier of each original writing. when i compared each cultures money system... it came out to be the exact amount but with translation to English being not so explanatory on that. thats when i gave up my quest and trusted God's word fully. I have always smiled inside when someone says the bible has contradictions... i always respond... show me. Thank you for posting those scriptures for her. I considered trying to do that, but I was not sure in all cases what she was referring to, and sometimes when I have done that, they come back and say that is not what they were referring to. The instructions in the Bible are to all of us. We do not out grow them.
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Post by John on Oct 6, 2020 18:47:47 GMT -5
By grace sister , i have read that bible for hours daily , every day for over fourteen years . I do not say this to boast in me as though i know it all . I say it , because i have never seen different truths . The truth i first learned has never changed and their are not different truths . I think you mean to say , we grow deeper in our UNDERSTANDING . And when we grow deeper in our understanding we realize , there is only one truth , the bible does not contradict and we know when it comes to sin and error . We rebuke the new as much as we would a mature one . The approach of sin must always be to have it ceased asap . When i was a new one , when i seen grave warnings it did not cause me to run off . Cause all i read was the bible . AND if we want to see grave and serious , READ THOSE WORDS . Yet they never ran me off . SO i say we can approach anyone just like those men did , just like JESUS Did . Be encouraged sister . I think you are misunderstanding me brother. You said it yourself that you dont try to choke the meat of the word down a new believer's throat. Some truths are for less mature believers and some are for the more mature in the Lord. Things in the word of God that we are not ready for yet, we read them but tend to just overlook or pass them by. All the scriptures are for everyone. Some just are not to a place to understand them, but that is not the same as saying they are not for them.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Oct 6, 2020 18:59:49 GMT -5
Thank you for posting those scriptures for her. I considered trying to do that, but I was not sure in all cases what she was referring to, and sometimes when I have done that, they come back and say that is not what they were referring to. The instructions in the Bible are to all of us. We do not out grow them.
either we can fully trust Gods written word, that He did write... and leave for us is without contradiction and can be trusted fully... or we do not. i do. I posted those scriptures to boast in Our LORD. FAITHFUL He has been... And FAITHFUL He will be.
When i was searching for a contradiction in scripture... i could discern God had a little smile on His face during my study time... at the time i thought it was he was happy i was studying His word... today i know He was smiling in the sense of ... try me... I AM God. its all there. its all true. Just as i wrote it. You will see you can trust me. Kinda like it was a cute little moment when you watch your children learning about the world around them. you just got to let them take it in on their own.
I love the way He Fathers me.
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Post by watchful on Oct 7, 2020 6:31:02 GMT -5
I think you are misunderstanding me brother. You said it yourself that you dont try to choke the meat of the word down a new believer's throat. Some truths are for less mature believers and some are for the more mature in the Lord. Things in the word of God that we are not ready for yet, we read them but tend to just overlook or pass them by. All the scriptures are for everyone. Some just are not to a place to understand them, but that is not the same as saying they are not for them.Unfortunately the point is getting lost in the details, as so often happens. The word of God is ALIVE (LIFE) and active and He ministers it by HIS SPIRIT to each soul according to their need and readiness. (And when He does, it does not return void....it's a ministration of LIFE.) Even the apostle said I have more to say to you but you cannot bear it now. And it's written in Hebrews to leave the elementary principles of Christ to go on to maturity. And does the Lord minister comfort and reassurance to someone who needs a rebuke, or does He minister a rebuke to someone who needs encouragement? No....He will minister the appropriate portions of His word that He knows they need at the time. Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
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Post by John on Oct 7, 2020 7:58:08 GMT -5
All the scriptures are for everyone. Some just are not to a place to understand them, but that is not the same as saying they are not for them. Unfortunately the point is getting lost in the details, as so often happens. The word of God is ALIVE (LIFE) and active and He ministers it by HIS SPIRIT to each soul according to their need and readiness. (And when He does, it does not return void....it's a ministration of LIFE.) Even the apostle said I have more to say to you but you cannot bear it now. And it's written in Hebrews to leave the elementary principles of Christ to go on to maturity. And does the Lord minister comfort and reassurance to someone who needs a rebuke, or does He minister a rebuke to someone who needs encouragement? No....He will minister the appropriate portions of His word that He knows they need at the time. Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. That does not mean some scriptures do not apply to me. They all do. It works like this. I am reading through the Bible and living right and come across stern rebukes. They apply to me and warn me to keep living right. I am reading through the Bible and in sin, and read encouragements to continue in the faith. That applies to me, as it tells me what God desires I continue in. This living Word language you are using reminds me of how liberal judges justify not taking our Constitution literal, except you are speaking of how we look at scripture.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Oct 7, 2020 20:46:56 GMT -5
Unfortunately the point is getting lost in the details, as so often happens. The word of God is ALIVE (LIFE) and active and He ministers it by HIS SPIRIT to each soul according to their need and readiness. (And when He does, it does not return void....it's a ministration of LIFE.) Even the apostle said I have more to say to you but you cannot bear it now. And it's written in Hebrews to leave the elementary principles of Christ to go on to maturity. And does the Lord minister comfort and reassurance to someone who needs a rebuke, or does He minister a rebuke to someone who needs encouragement? No....He will minister the appropriate portions of His word that He knows they need at the time. Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. That does not mean some scriptures do not apply to me. They all do. It works like this. I am reading through the Bible and living right and come across stern rebukes. They apply to me and warn me to keep living right. I am reading through the Bible and in sin, and read encouragements to continue in the faith. That applies to me, as it tells me what God desires I continue in. This living Word language you are using reminds me of how liberal judges justify not taking our Constitution literal, except you are speaking of how we look at scripture.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
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