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Post by tlsitd on Jun 30, 2018 12:41:41 GMT -5
I sometimes like to look up the testimonies of people who were converted (genuinely) from another religion to Christianity. I find it to be encouraging to hear how Jesus brought them out of whatever they were and into the knowledge of Him and the one true faith and saved them. And the more deeply involved in or devoted to their former beliefs or religion they were, the more wonderful the testimony of conversion is---not unlike the apostle Paul's.
But here is a curiosity that I have observed. If I look up the testimonies of people who converted from any religion or cult or belief to Christianity, I can find them. But when I search for Judaism, there's virtually nothing. I can find Muslim to Christian, Atheist to Christian, Mormon to Christian, Seventh Day Adventist to Christian, Roman Catholic to Christian; but Jew to Christian? Nope. If anything comes up, it's Messianic Judaism (which is not Christianity, and they don't like to be called that), and videos or articles about how Jewish Jesus was, or "Christian vs Jew" debates, or perhaps the story of a professing Christian, or of a Catholic, who converted to Judaism, or an article about how Christians persecuted Jews.
Obviously there are Jewish people who get saved, and they don't all become "Messianic Jews". But Google and YouTube at least would like the world to believe that there is no such thing, apparently; either that, or the ones who have converted (been converted, more appropriately---by God) face so much potential ridicule or persuasive pressure from either Messianic Jews or from Jews that they keep a low profile. It almost seems like a conspiracy to me on the part of Google and YouTube---a deliberate manipulation of search results for that subject; and it very well could be.
Just an observation of mine. (Feel free to try this experiment for yourselves and see what happens. Perhaps your results will be different than mine.)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 13:18:49 GMT -5
Believers in Christ do not have to call themselves Christians.....that is just a name given to the early believers by non-believers. We don't have to call ourselves anything, but just be known by our fruits, in simplicity. Many Jews who come to Christ prefer not to call themselves Christians because Jews have been persecuted down through history by those who called themselves Christians. Many prefer to identify as messianic Jews for that reason ie, Jews who believe in the Messiah Jeshua (Jesus)....and they also like to keep their faith connected to it's patriarchal roots, especially for purposes of Jewish evangelism. That might explain why it is hard to find testimonies of Jews if we search using the term Christian...since they don't call themselves Christian...it has terrible associations for Jewish people.
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Post by frienduff on Jun 30, 2018 16:12:33 GMT -5
Just throw those hands up and praise the LORD . I guess I will try and go look it up too sister . OH let us praise the LORD .
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Post by tlsitd on Jun 30, 2018 17:32:52 GMT -5
Believers in Christ do not have to call themselves Christians.....that is just a name given to the early believers by non-believers. We don't have to call ourselves anything, but just be known by our fruits, in simplicity. Many Jews who come to Christ prefer not to call themselves Christians because Jews have been persecuted down through history by those who called themselves Christians. Many prefer to identify as messianic Jews for that reason ie, Jews who believe in the Messiah Jeshua (Jesus)....and they also like to keep their faith connected to it's patriarchal roots, especially for purposes of Jewish evangelism. That might explain why it is hard to find testimonies of Jews if we search using the term Christian...since they don't call themselves Christian...it has terrible associations for Jewish people. Mmm... That may be true, but I rather doubt that that is the case for most Jewish Christians (whether they are genuinely born-again or not), especially not in the USA. It has more to do with their wanting to try to straddle the fence between two covenants---the Old (which was between God and the people of Israel) and the New (which is between God and all men---and a completely new covenant, not just an addition onto Judaism), and with a carnal attitude about their Jewish heritage---as if that is of some kind of spiritual value. (It isn't.) They are more concerned with being Jewish and being accepted (and approved) by unsaved Jews than they are about being approved by Jesus Christ and pursuing the unity of the Spirit within the body of Christ.
Messianic Judaism is neither Christianity nor Judaism, and has no basis in New Testament doctrine. There's nothing wrong with being culturally Jewish, but that culture shouldn't contradict or interfere with one's obedience to the teachings of the faith; and keeping the Law of Moses (any part of it) is not a part of Christian doctrine, either for saved Jews or for saved Gentiles. Everything that Christians (whatever their cultural heritage or former religion) are supposed to obey is contained in the New Testament, including anything that carried over from the Law of Moses (such as the various amplified and amended commandments in Matthew 5). God places no emphasis on maintaining some sort of separate Jewish identity as a believer in Jesus Christ in the NT; neither should Jewish believers.
Preoccupation with one's ancestry is both unspiritual and unScriptural, but probably a very difficult thing for a Jewish Christian to overcome---perhaps more than any other kind of Christian, because it is so ingrained in them by their religion and culture. (But they should be encouraged and admonished to overcome this unspiritual mentality, and not permitted to indulge it---and certainly not to promote it.) They still want to be "special", which is not a spiritual attitude for any Christian of any heritage to have. Jesus Christ in a person is all that makes any difference to God and all that should make any difference to Christians.
Jesus Christ built a church---not a church and a synagogue. And both saved Jews and saved Gentiles are building-stones of the same temple, with one law for both (just as there was one law under the Old Covenant, for Israel and for the foreigners among them), not two. Only unsaved Jews are under the law of Moses. They can only be released from it if they die to it through faith in the one who fulfilled it (since the law will not be abolished until heaven and earth pass away, as Jesus said). He fulfilled the law so that those Jews who believed in Him could enter into the New Covenant in His blood (not the blood of goats and sheep), without committing spiritual adultery by keeping the law of Christ while still being bound to the law of Moses. (Paul explains all of this in Romans.)
And now even Gentiles, who never even had the law of Moses, are trying to be Jewish and keep the law and the Sabbath, which is heresy. No Christian should be keeping any part of the law of Moses, either saved Jew or Gentile. That is not a Christian doctrine, but a doctrine of well-intentioned but deceived and misguided men at best; and of cunning men with corrupt desires and motives at worst.
"Messianic Jew" says it all---they are fence-straddlers between Judaism and Christianity. They have invented their own religion in order to try to live in both worlds, and to try to woo Jews into Christianity by making Christianity as 'Jewish' as possible; which is deceptive, because Christianity is a different religion and Jewishness is not the focus of it, as it is of Judaism. Then they have to keep up the charade to keep the Jews who really care more about being Jewish than about being crucified with Christ and boasting in Him only in their congregation---which is trying to please man rather than God (not unlike what the churches are doing, trying to be more like the world in order to cater to the unspiritual appetites of unsaved people who have no real desire for Jesus Christ or to turn away from their sins.)
The unsaved Jews think Messianic Judaism ridiculous and deceitful, and I agree with them. Christians trying to evangelize the Jews would probably have more respect from the Jews if they just presented Christianity as it is in the NT, instead of trying to make it into a different form of Judaism. And they make matters worse by influencing Gentile believers into thinking that there is something spiritually beneficial to them, or morally superior in God's eyes, about adopting Jewish customs and trying to be more Jewish---rather than trying to be more like Christ.
And Messianic Judaism has not proven to be a very effective strategy for converting Jews to Christianity either, from what I have read. Probably because God isn't working with them (the Messianics) because it's not His will for it to be done that way---to bring Jews into some strange blend of Mosaic Law-keeping and New Testament Christianity. He wants people to be brought into New Testament Christianity, not some distortion of it that combines the commands and Rabbinic traditions of Judaism with those of Christianity. He doesn't want converts to Messianic Judaism; He wants converts to Christianity.
The whole business is utterly absurd and unScriptural. Romans, Galatians, and Hebrews (which was written to Jewish believers), should be enough to show "Messianic Judaism" for the heresy it is. But unfortunately, too many Christians are under the spell of it, and afraid of offending the practitioners of this religion to speak out against its unScripturalness. (I am not one of them.) The fact that some or many Messianic Jews may be genuinely born-again doesn't justify the heresy they teach, or the totally unnecessary division and confusion in the Body of Christ that it causes.
I believe that the preoccupation with all things Jewish on the part of Christians (as well as Christian Zionism, well-intentioned as those who subscribe to it may be) is the result of seducing spirits of antichrist that are preparing the way for the Jewish antichrist and his religion and worship. It's definitely not coming from God. The religion of God is Christianity, not Judaism. It's not the Holy Spirit who is leading Christians away from Scriptural Christianity and into the works of a dead religion, or attempting to blend and confuse the two. (Think about it.)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 18:54:52 GMT -5
I know what you mean sister, it's just so tragic isn't it, how there seems to have been quite a number of Jews who came to the Lord in recent years, only to be caught up in false gospels and the falling away. And just to clarify, I wasn't intending to indicate either my support or disagreement with them wanting to identify as messianic Jews.....only explaining why it might be hard to find their testimonies if we use the word "Christian" to search on the internet. I don't consider that there is anything wrong with avoiding the term Christian in itself, since Jesus didn't give a name to anything....what He brought was a new "way" of life rather than a religion, so on that part I don't fault them. The Hebrew Roots movement crossed the line over into idolizing all things Jewish....and I'm afraid that led many Jews astray instead of bringing them a pure gospel. It really has hints of interfaith when Christianity is blended with something else...that is another worry.
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Post by frienduff on Jun 30, 2018 20:52:50 GMT -5
You all are loved . let us keep on with the exhortations and reminders . We here Love one another and will keep on by HIS grace exhorting . The ONE loved above all IS CHRIST , and from that we see How to love one another . Now leap up and praise the LORD .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 7:32:50 GMT -5
My first post here might have been a bit incoherent, I banged it out in a hurry, so it wasn't very well put together and could have been misunderstood. I do not agree with "Messianic Judaism" as such either, however, I extend some understanding to those Jewish folks given their history. People of any race tend to gather mostly with their own when they have sufficient numbers to do so, that is just a natural tendency for anyone anywhere, and I don't think that is a problem in itself. Really it is the church's fault here in the west for not giving the Jews a pure gospel. We are the ones who put them on a pedestal, and after so long a time of feeling like the underdog it's understandable in that sense that they found it a welcome change (not saying it is right, but that i can understand it). We are the ones who re-built the partition between Jew and Gentile in that way. So in praying for the Jews it's good to confess the fault of the church and that the Lord would be merciful and not hold it against the Jews for that reason.
To me it's interesting how Paul wrote that the old covenant is obsolete and fading away, rather than a sudden end to it.....so I wonder if the Lord also gives grace and time for Jewish people to learn and grow individually and sort themselves out with regard to the law when they come to Christ, at least I hope and pray so. Paul himself kept some aspects of the law....nazarite vow, circumcizing someone (for expediency, not to offend the unsaved Jews). Some of what messianic Jews do is for expediency, in order to not unnecessarily offend their fellow Jews. It's a problem when they are teaching and preaching that everyone is obligated to keep certain aspects of the Law, rather than allowing people the liberty to sort it out between the Lord and themselves. At least that's how I see it.
Everything is in such a huge mess right now...with all camps of the church. But I believe the Lord is going to act, and when He starts shaking things in earnest here in the west and it starts to be more costly to follow Him in our part of the world, hopefully it will soon rid all camps of a lot of the fluff and wrong, the unnecessary things they are doing. Many will get back to brass tacks, the foundations, I believe, and hope. We also know many will be turned over to the strong delusion, sadly, and only the Lord knows who has not received a love of the truth individually. But in general, I have hope for the Jews....to my understanding, as many unnatural branches are being broken off in the falling away, it makes room for more natural branches to be grafted back in.
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Post by John on Jul 2, 2018 9:37:54 GMT -5
Romans chapter 14 addresses the topic of Christians that observe portions of the law of Moses. They are just as saved as those who don't, but are referred to as weak. Calling Messianic Judaism heresy is too strong to me. They do things that are not necessary, but they are saved.
If God didn't want Israel to exist, they wouldn't be there. They have as much right to exist and have secure borders as any nation on the face of the earth.
I do think it is possible search engines are covering up testimonies of Jews getting saved.
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