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Post by frienduff on Nov 29, 2018 11:22:01 GMT -5
Think about what some term legalism and see what a loss this really is . They term the very things paul said , as legalism when others simply try and teach this . Or things even JESUS said , or other apostels said and taught . WE SHOULD BE LOVING THOSE THINGS .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Nov 29, 2018 11:29:19 GMT -5
These days anyone who has moral standards is a legalist.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Nov 29, 2018 18:02:33 GMT -5
that makes one without moral standards an ill-legalist. LOL.
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Post by Abby-Joy on Nov 30, 2018 14:14:06 GMT -5
I know that some people may have thought I was against Biblical standards when I used the term "legalist" as a negative term. But in my experience with "legalistic" people... it is the fear mongering kind of legalism that focuses on our ability to keep this law and that law, rules, rules, rules... without RELATIONSHIP! Creating an imbalanced fear that God or His angels will strike us dead if we step out of line... and many of those rules were man-made, not God-made. So that gets our eyes onto ourselves to be able to "do it" ... and off of Christ where our focus should be. I call this a backwards gospel. I was in a church like that for 13 yrs... it was a horrible place to be! We were always at odds, because I didn't measure up... I didn't beat my children to "break their spirits" ... I didn't stand idly by and allow their teachers treat my children unjustly ... I "put my children before God" (in their opinion) because I didn't leave my babies in the church nursery ... I didn't see the Biblical logic in their dress codes (modesty = YES... cross-dressing = NO... but other man-imposed rules = NO!) ... if I was late to one of the 10 or so weekly services and meetings, I was going to hell ... if I disagreed with how we were to treat our children, I was rebellious and going to hell ... if I attended another church without letting the pastor know, I was compromising (and going to hell) .... lol ... crazy ... and that is legalism to me. On top of the Biblical commands, they added about 500 more!
That is what I'm referring to when I say "legalism." When we love Him, we will keep His commandments and they will not be heavy or burdensome or grievous. I truly believe that if the church heard more about love ... the true love (relationship with Jesus Christ rooted, and grounded in love!) ... we wouldn't have so much sin problem in the church! In these days we live in, sin abounds more and more, and the love of many has grown cold. That's why we'll see even those who call themselves our brothers and sisters in Christ betraying us in the last days. That's where we're headed....
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Post by 2fw8212a on Nov 30, 2018 15:22:50 GMT -5
I believe legalism is rooted in lack of mercy and love.
It brings many doctrines and commandments of men that must be followed strictly.
For those who engage in legalistic practices, it becomes their idol and they strive to meet those standards.
To follow the commandments of the Lord and to be led by His Spirit is not the priority, it is to conform to doctrines and commandments of men.
Which means to please men rather than God.
For them, it is OK if you have harmed your brother or sister in Christ as long as you have followed the rules of the Church's parking lot.
Those who are trapped in legalistic practices are more worried in not breaking their own rules than breaking the commandments of God.
"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets." - Matthew 7:12
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith..." - Matthew 23:23
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Nov 30, 2018 18:44:24 GMT -5
legalisim is also rooted in ... BONDAGE. Jesus is all about setting the captives free.. from bondage. breaking chains. and iron bars. freedom from the curse of sin.
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Post by justinadams on Dec 1, 2018 6:04:55 GMT -5
Is a cop legalistic just because he wants you to follow the speed limit?
Yeshua said that those that Love Him will follow and keep His commandments - commandments He gave us three times. 1) verbally. 2) on tablets He hewed that were broken. 3) On tablets Moses cut that are now in the Ark.
He instituted a Holy Sabbath to commemorate His Creation. When I mention this fact I am often labeled a 'legalistic' person.
Labels are for soup cans.
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Post by Abdicate on Dec 1, 2018 10:57:45 GMT -5
Amen!
What amazes is me is how God built into creation and His laws wiggle room. The law says, sin you will die. The wiggle room is, if you change your mind about your sinful actions, God will forgive. We build roads with wiggle room. The law says a car has a width that cannot exceed X inches (I don't know what that is) but when they build a road it must be such-and-such wide. This gives car-makers the wiggle room to make big or small cars. The white lines on the road are its boundaries, with your part having a yellow line on the left, but if you go past them, there's still a little wiggle room. God wants us to go down the road of life between the lines and He knows we must have that wiggle room. However, sometimes, that wiggle room is very narrow and if you cross that yellow line at the wrong time, you could hit the oncoming car and die, or go too far past the white line and you're in a deep ditch. That "one" decision could be your last. We must live within the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This is even borne out in mathematics, the most legalistic unforgiving thing there is. But that is for another thread.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Dec 1, 2018 14:17:28 GMT -5
the thing most convos overlook concerning the law is that The Book says the law is still good. Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill the law. and he did. thru accepting Him and living for Him and having His Spirit in us, we have that same power in us. sins grip no longer has hold on us. freedom. liberty. but that dont mean we do not consider the law. that dont mean we do not respect Gods ways. Sin means to miss the mark and its an old archers term... harmotia in greek. the mark is love. if how we live is in love and we love God and our neighbor...then we are doing what the law demands. against such there is no law.
Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. Luk 10:29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? Luk 10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. Luk 10:31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. Luk 10:32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. Luk 10:33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, Luk 10:34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. Luk 10:35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Luk 10:36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? Luk 10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
MERCY. G1656 ἔλεος eleos el'-eh-os Of uncertain affinity; compassion (human or divine, especially active): - (+ tender) mercy.
God gives us mercy, and He expects us to give it to others. He even said what you have done unto the least of these, my brethren, ye have done it unto me... so if we dont love our neighbor we dont love God.
this is why the law is still GOOD. it points us to LOVE.
so we should be doing like Abdicate pointed out... and keep it between the ditches. dont want to fall in a ditch.
so then we can conclude the oppisite side of the coin... lawlessness=no love.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Dec 1, 2018 15:45:36 GMT -5
I believe the law of God (the ten commandments) can only be fulfilled through love.
"He who does not love does not know God, for God is love." - 1 John 4:8
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another." - John 13:34
He says: As I have loved you...
Then we are not to love people in the way the world teach us. The world does not know love.
Because love rejoices in the truth and the world cannot receive God's truth, then the only love the world can offer is a false one (deception, devoid of truth).
"the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him..." - John 14:17
The love of the world is like this:
I am seeing a person going to fire something in a place full of gas, and they ask me:
Is it safe to do it?!
Then they say:
Yes, it is completely safe. You can do it.
And BOOOM, destruction takes place.
The law of God is not about following Sabbaths, days, food and drinks, etc...
"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little." - Isaiah 28:10
"having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace..." - Ephesians 2:15
"For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh..." - Romans 8:3
"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths..." - Colossians 2:16
Because what profits someone if they keep Sabbath, observe days, and only eat and drink certain things and they do not walk in love?!
"It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out..." - Luke 14:35
"You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain." - Galatians 4:11
"Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting." - Isaiah 1:13
And that is how I believe we keep the Sabbath today:
It is not by doing nothing or going to church on Saturday.
I believe it is everyday, as we are to walk holy everyday and to rest from our evil works we used to practice in our days of ignorance.
"If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight..." - Isaiah 58:13
"...Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." - Matthew 12:12
"For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." - Matthew 12:8
"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy..." - Exodus 20:8
That is, walk in love.
"...for he who loves another has fulfilled the law." - Romans 13:8
"...Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh." - Galatians 5:16
"For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh..." - Philippians 3:3
Blessings in Jesus' name!
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Post by John on Dec 3, 2018 8:26:52 GMT -5
Letters, I agree with you about the Sabbath. For the Christian, we entered into that rest when we put our trust in Jesus, and ceased from doing sinful works. We walk in His rest every single day simply by walking in the Spirit.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Dec 3, 2018 12:09:18 GMT -5
Letters, I agree with you about the Sabbath. For the Christian, we entered into that rest when we put our trust in Jesus, and ceased from doing sinful works. We walk in His rest every single day simply by walking in the Spirit.
while I agree with your words i want to point out something, of interest.
And i do need to be clear when i mention "keeping the sabbath" I am not talking about a lengthy list of rules like you can only take so many steps on that day. The rest is entering into His rest. I used to go to a church, the church kinda died. but before that happened i noticed there were only a handful of people who were faithfully doing all the work. an older lady was always cleaning the church, and she had back problems. no help for her. they had a hard time keeping the lawn and flowerbeds maintained. leaves stopping up the drain boxes and a little water coming in the door. I had spoken with the pastor with a few brothers. I had prayed about it too. the pastor finnally made a decree. if you worship here you have chores here unless you are unable to help. we made a schedule. we all pitched in. i noticed others in the ministry were being pulled by their duties in different directions and the sound tech was one of them and they needed another guy. I offered to help. they trained me in to run the sound system and mics, the lights, and the projector. everyone said i was doing a good job. then, it was all me. i didnt have help, and I volunteered to help pick up the slack, not take the job on 100 %. i did it for a while and i noticed my sundays at church were not so restful. i noticed i was not able to pour my heart into the worship or really meditate on the sermons scriptures as my mind was concentrating on running the projector. there is something special about getting together with other believers and worshiping. it recharges your batteries. and for me, it does so more than when i am by myself. I have noticed that it helps to get that stride for the next week.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
have you ever looked up the word labor in this scripture? it means to use speed, or to strive. and with the attitude of being earnest.
If our keeping of the sabbath is anymore than entering rest its off. we should be striving to do this everyday yes. but if we look at genesis, God Himself took that day to enter into the rest. I had to eventually tell the brothers at the church, hey now i said help yall out not do it all, i need to get my worship on too. and they ended up helping me too. we started taking turns on that chore as well. and my Spirit was better for it. my weeks were better for it.
I dont think we need to keep a list of things we can and cant do... but I know that once a week is beneficial to really get into His presence. Lift Him up. sing to Him. Pray to Him. intensely so. time set aside for Him.
to me this is what "Keeping the sabbath" is... Undistracted quality time with God. does a husband and a wife have a good relationship if they dont get that quality time in together?... or is the relationship a little bit stale or even dead/non-existent?
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Post by Abdicate on Dec 4, 2018 18:47:05 GMT -5
The Sabbath is a special day to the Lord and is the Lord's Day since Creation:
Even today, scientists say we must unplug from life to recharge our batteries. God already wanted us to do just that. Everyone makes it out to be religious thing, but it's really for us. Think about it; why is it the only commandment that's dismissed of the Ten and lumped into the expired ceremonial laws.
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