PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 6, 2018 12:20:12 GMT -5
Sometimes people tend to see me as relying too much on my intellect for doctrine. Intellect cannot come up with spiritual truth on its own — no doubt about that. No one can use pure intellect to arrive at the gospel, and I hope I never leave anyone with that impression. When seeking answers from God, we must always turn to spirit with an open heart, no preconceived opinions, and let Jesus teach us His ways through light and love. However, we are also told to test the spirits, to rightly divide the word, and to be on guard against deceptive angels of light. Not every scintillating spiritual experience (and not every doctrinal teaching that sounds like a good idea) is from Jesus.
When I was young, my family got heavily involved in some far-out fringe Pentecostal adventurism. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a charismatic who believes in spiritual activity, but some of the stuff I saw from Christians was borderline witchcraft. It actually succeeded in pushing a few of my siblings toward real occultic stuff. Meanwhile there I was with my books and my love of history, feeling like there was no room for me in church.
I almost didn’t become a Christian at all because I assumed it was a religion for stupid people. It seemed like no one ever had to prove themselves or justify their actions or even strive to be better people. All they had to do was tell cool stories about casting out devils, and they were spiritual experts. The whole thing struck me as nonsense. I resisted Jesus until He spoke to me directly at age 17.
Over-reliance on intellect is a problem, but the other extreme is just as bad. David Koresh was not exactly a college professor. Gullible, emotion-driven people can be persuaded to believe some downright stupid things in the name of being more spiritual.
We are told that God is not the author of confusion. He is a God of order, purpose, civilized behavior, emotional maturity, and sound teaching. He calls us to be as humble and trusting as children, but He doesn’t call us to be animals driven by impulse. Having seen far too much of the latter in my life experience, I tend to be very, very suspicious toward ethereal unprovable “revelations” that rely on bad arguments and circular logic to defend themselves.
Anything which is actual truth will be able to stand up for itself. It will stand up to a bit of questioning (not unfair attacks, but rigorous questions), and it will somehow manifest itself as God’s living, powerful truth in our lives. When I question someone on a doctrinal point, and their answers inevitably dissolve into “you’re not spiritual enough” or “I don’t have to defend it” or “shut up” or any similar dead end, that is a major warning sign to me that they are not willing to rightly the divide the word.
Anyway, I hope this give you all some insight into my mind and why I am the way I am.
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Post by John on Dec 6, 2018 17:51:22 GMT -5
You have always come across to me as one of the most open to the truth wherever it may lead people I have ever met, and a very intelligent person that is a deep thinker. I agree with you 100 percent. If someone's revelations don't match up with the Bible, throw it out. They should be able to defend what they say. If the scriptures are saying one thing, and a person comes along and says they don't really mean that because the Spirit showed them otherwise, I will hold to the Bible.
I don't know if you have ever done one of those tests to see what personality type you are, but I have, and mine was logician. It was pretty rare, and it basically means that I look at everything through the eyes of logic and reason. If I can't see the logic in something, I can't accept it. People have to frame their arguments to me in a way that makes sense. When I read up on that personality type, it had me pegged almost to a tee. It was uncanny. That might help to explain my peculiar personality. I think it said only like 3 percent of those who take the test come up with that result.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 6, 2018 18:25:51 GMT -5
I don't know if you have ever done one of those tests to see what personality type you are, but I have, and mine was logician. It was pretty rare, and it basically means that I look at everything through the eyes of logic and reason. If I can't see the logic in something, I can't accept it. People have to frame their arguments to me in a way that makes sense. When I read up on that personality type, it had me pegged almost to a tee. It was uncanny. That might help to explain my peculiar personality. I think it said only like 3 percent of those who take the test come up with that result.
Edit: It looks like you’re an INTP. I’m an INFJ.
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Post by John on Dec 6, 2018 18:58:27 GMT -5
I don't know if you have ever done one of those tests to see what personality type you are, but I have, and mine was logician. It was pretty rare, and it basically means that I look at everything through the eyes of logic and reason. If I can't see the logic in something, I can't accept it. People have to frame their arguments to me in a way that makes sense. When I read up on that personality type, it had me pegged almost to a tee. It was uncanny. That might help to explain my peculiar personality. I think it said only like 3 percent of those who take the test come up with that result.
Edit: It looks like you’re an INTP. I’m an INFJ. Your personality type is more rare than mine. Less than 1 percent of the population.
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Post by John on Dec 6, 2018 19:06:58 GMT -5
The kind of argument I have no patience for is one based purely in emotion. I have had people try to argue OSAS by trying to play on emotions. They will say something like, "Here Jesus went to the cross, and gave all for you, and look how you repay him. You practically stomp all over the blood he shed by trying to save yourself. How sad that must be for him, looking down from heaven and knowing how he gave up everything for you, and you won't accept it." When I hear someone do that or something similar, my response is usually something like, "It is time to get out the violins. We need some mood music while we read this." I got the mods on my case for doing that once.
When I was working through the Mandela issue, I was trying to come up with any possible logical way this could be. I went through all the options I could think of from alternate universes to time travel, and nothing made any real sense. I do feel like the Lord showed me it was a lie, but even so, try as I may, I never heard a single argument that made any real sense. Then, I watched that last video, and they were claiming the word unicorn was added to the Bible, and I knew it was not, along with a bunch of other phony charges of changes that I knew were lies. That was the last straw. I could clearly see this was all emotion based and the result of an over active imagination and paranoia. I try to consider anything anyone says, but it has to have some kind of logic behind it. I do that with anything.
Based on your personality type, how do you react to emotion based arguments and how do you reason things out?
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 6, 2018 19:47:07 GMT -5
The kind of argument I have no patience for is one based purely in emotion. I have had people try to argue OSAS by trying to play on emotions. They will say something like, "Here Jesus went to the cross, and gave all for you, and look how you repay him. You practically stomp all over the blood he shed by trying to save yourself. How sad that must be for him, looking down from heaven and knowing how he gave up everything for you, and you won't accept it." When I hear someone do that or something similar, my response is usually something like, "It is time to get out the violins. We need some mood music while we read this." I got the mods on my case for doing that once.
When I was working through the Mandela issue, I was trying to come up with any possible logical way this could be. I went through all the options I could think of from alternate universes to time travel, and nothing made any real sense. I do feel like the Lord showed me it was a lie, but even so, try as I may, I never heard a single argument that made any real sense. Then, I watched that last video, and they were claiming the word unicorn was added to the Bible, and I knew it was not, along with a bunch of other phony charges of changes that I knew were lies. That was the last straw. I could clearly see this was all emotion based and the result of an over active imagination and paranoia. I try to consider anything anyone says, but it has to have some kind of logic behind it. I do that with anything.
Based on your personality type, how do you react to emotion based arguments and how do you reason things out?
Emotions can have their place in selling an argument, but what you described from the OSAS crowd is a guilt trip. That’s not an emotional selling point; it’s an emotional attack. When people use emotions as weapons, it’s repulsive, and that’s why you reacted the way you did. Consider in Corinthians when Paul appealed to them as beloved children. He had a family relationship with them, which he leveraged to give them a rebuke they would listen to. All of the epistles used comforting words as if speaking to loved ones. The rebukes were sharp, but they all came across as genuinely loving. Emotions absolutely play a role in the delivery of a message. Remember we are told to appeal to others as if they are a father, mother, sister, etc. If our proposal grows the fruit of reconciliation, fellowship, and mutual respect, then the proposal probably has some value to it. If a proposal needs guilt and shame to sell itself, it will probably never grow positive fruit. So I tend to look for logical explanations of things, and I also look at the potential consequences. I look down the road at the way something will logically play out. The result of something usually reveals the intention of it. That’s kind of how INFJs work. We use our instinctive knowledge of human behavior to predict how a proposal will affect people. Also, we are very keen to pay attention to the tactics used on selling it. We can smell a bad argument a mile away. We don’t like being tricked or manipulated in order to make us believe something. So we hit people hard with questioning to see if they have an agenda. A good policy with YouTube videos is to mentally check out of what’s being said to pay more attention on the delivery. Are they buttering up the listener (you’re watching this because you’re smart enough to think for yourself, that sort of flattery)? Are they using loaded words that evoke emotion? Does the tone of voice sound like they’re speaking to a toddler? Do they sound bitter? If they can’t sell you on the truth without manipulating you, it probably isn’t true.
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Post by justinadams on Dec 7, 2018 8:17:55 GMT -5
Edit: It looks like you’re an INTP. I’m an INFJ. Your personality type is more rare than mine. Less than 1 percent of the population.
DEFENDER PERSONALITY (ISFJ, -A/-T) That is me.
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Post by John on Dec 7, 2018 8:28:17 GMT -5
Looking into all 16 of the personality types would be an interesting study, and perhaps help us understand each other better.
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