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Post by John on Dec 5, 2018 10:42:42 GMT -5
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
This is a passage we should take a close look at. Judgment must first begin with us, who are in the house of God, not those in the world. We need to all take a close look at ourselves in the mirror of God's Word, not in comparison to others. We need to count the cost and choose who we will serve, God or the devil. The half in and half out approach will not do. We are told in Revelation that the lukewarm will be spewed out of God's mouth.
It goes on to ask the question that if judgment first begins with us, what will the end be of those "that obey not the gospel of God?" It is assumed that those in the church are trying to be obedient children, but what will be the end of those who are not? From the way this is worded, it is obvious their end will not be a good one.
This next verse I find to be very interesting. It tells us that the righteous are scarcely saved. How are you "scarcely saved?" It comes across like those who are fully serving God are barely pulled out of the fire and allowed entrance into heaven. That is because next to God's standard of holiness, our righteousness is as filthy rags. If not for the blood of Jesus washing our sins away, we would be spending eternity in hell. Then it asks a similar question as before. If we, the blood washed, sold out Christians are scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and sinners appear? It is obvious that they will not make it into heaven and they won't partake in the joys of the Lord. Since there is no purgatory, that only leaves one option, hell, which will later be cast into the lake of fire.
The final verse in that passage is also sobering. It is God's will that we sometimes suffer for our faith. We are sometimes tried in the fire for a reason. If we are suffering according to the will of God, we must commit the keeping of our souls to God, and how do we do that? "In well doing." Our creator is faithful. He won't let us go through more than we can handle.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Dec 5, 2018 12:21:28 GMT -5
There is a song by a band named soundgarden, one of their songs the lyrics say...
times are gone for honest men, and sometimes far to long for snakes.
the song is titled black hole sun and its talking about the end of the world, and how the singer welcomed it.
it is a rare thing to hear the truth, these days.
Let us press on in The LORD, who is our hope, our strength, and even our song. without Him we can not overcome tomorrow.
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Post by frienduff on Dec 5, 2018 16:43:52 GMT -5
FOR IT IS THE RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT OF GOD that we BE COUNTED WORTHY for the KINGOM for which we suffer . MOUNT UP my friends because a massive river of all out persecution of fiery trials will come against us in full force in the time ahead . COUNT THE COST and REJOICE IN THE LORD . TIME to build the church up . TIME to COUNT THE COST and be fully willing to lose all things , even our life FOR THE LORD . SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES and it will COME and it will wage war against the lambs . IT cannot be stopped , AND we must remain faithful to the LORD even to the end . But no matter what the lambs suffer in the fiery trials , it pales in comparison to the LAKE OF FIRE for those who rejected Christ . ARMOUR UP , let the weak say IN CHRIST I AM STRONG and IN HE can do all things . I am warning us all, SOMETHING OF DIRE WICKED will stand and the world will embrace it . AFTER the course of this delusion has filled the world and minds of all who do and have reject and rejected the Lamb .
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Post by Giller on Feb 19, 2019 14:27:36 GMT -5
Here is something David Wilkerson said in 2005:
”...Yet, as Peter writes, “If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” (1 Peter 4:18). Peter is speaking about judgment in the house of God. And I for one do not want to be “scarcely saved.”
Paul offers this counsel: “If we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world” (1 Corinthians 11:31–32). So, how are we to judge ourselves, as Paul says to do?
Here is the criterion by which I constantly judge myself: I ask, “Have I in any way hindered the gospel of Christ?” We know that the world cannot hinder the gospel. But the fact is, we who preach it can hinder it. Paul judged himself on this matter, writing, “(I) suffer all things, lest (I) should hinder the gospel of Christ” (1 Corinthians 9:12).
The apostle is telling us, in essence, “I have to be careful of how I present the gospel. If I’m materialistically minded, or if I harbor covetousness or lust, I cannot possibly represent Christ accurately. It would cause a hindrance to the gospel I present. No, the way I live has to be a part of the gospel I preach.”...”
Now I know that many present the words:”scarcely saved”, as meaning that all Christians are scarcely saved, put is that really the meaning?
And I can see how it can be taken that way.
But there are 2 topics that 1 Peter 4:12-19 is talking about.
One is on persecution:
1Pe 4:12 (12) Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
And the other is on, well suffering as a result of sin:
1Pe 4:15 (15) But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
To suffer as a Christian is a good thing, to suffer as a result of sin is not so good.
And judgment first starting in the house of God, is a type of God's chastisement to the church, so they get out of worldly ways, and start to decrease, so that Christ may increase in their lives and be a good witness.
For when one is scarcely saved, it will not be a good witness to unbelievers, and the gospel of Christ will be hindered.
And it will make it harder for unbelievers to receive the gospel, it really will.
Now this is what it says:
1Pe 4:17-19 (17) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? (18) And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (19) Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
It says the word ”if”, it is not saying that all believers are scarcely saved.
You do not have to be scarcely saved, you can thrive in the Lord.
Mat 13:23 (23) But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
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Post by John on Feb 20, 2019 20:44:36 GMT -5
The word that stands out to me is the word righteous. It says the righteous are scarcely saved, not the professing Christians are scarcely saved. Who are the righteous? I take that to be the born again believers who are trying their best to fully follow the Lord. Why would they be scarcely saved? Because their best is as filthy rags, and it requires a whole lot of grace for even the best Christian to make it into heaven. If not for the blood of Jesus, we would all be unclean in God's sight.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Feb 20, 2019 22:27:08 GMT -5
what stands out to me is that you didnt make bold or underline any words in verse 19, which gives us context with the other verses.(giller)
1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
"to him" is italic so i should read...
1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
Psalm 37:5 commit thy way unto The LORD, trust also in Him and He shall bring it to pass.
the word is commit in both verses. we are to leave it in Gods hands. and our job is to always do good and leave the result up to God.
it is true we can thrive in the LORD, but we must also consider: Psa 125:3 For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity.
Eze 18:1 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, Eze 18:2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? Eze 18:3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die...
...Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
scarcely/μόλις means with difficulty or with much work. if one is not thriving they are not striving. we must labor to enter His rest.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 20, 2019 22:47:40 GMT -5
Well, JESUS IS LORD and with that being said , OH its TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD one and all, ITS TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD .
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Post by Giller on Feb 21, 2019 1:11:37 GMT -5
Scarcely saved I believe would be in the realm of sanctification, and I agree with David Wilkerson on this one.
It is just making it.
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Post by Giller on Feb 21, 2019 1:50:07 GMT -5
And yes it is talking about true Christians, and it is talking about judgment first starting in the house of God, which speaks of chastisement.
And there are true Christians who do suffer as a result of their sins, who suffer as a result of being a busy body and so forth.
No a Christian cannot practice sin, but that does not mean that Christians do not fall into sin at times, and we know that there are many immature Christians.
Then it says "if", the righteous be scarcely saved, were shall the ungodly and sinner appear.
Now we know that the ungodly and sinner can get saved for we were all this at one time, but if we scarcely be saved, scarcely be sanctified, or are being a hindrance to the gospel through a poor witness, then what chance has the ungodly and sinner? Will they even accept our witness?
Yes in the bible it says to labor to enter into his rest, but I think scarcely here is used in a different way.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Feb 21, 2019 6:29:21 GMT -5
...but I think scarcely here is used in a different way. "For many are called, but few are chosen." - Matthew 22:14
"Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace." - Romans 11:5
"And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me." - Matthew 10:38
"And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" - Matthew 7:23
"Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness." - 1 John 3:4
"And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." - Galatians 5:24
"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." - Romans 8:9
"So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless." - Matthew 22:12
"Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’" - Matthew 22:13
"For many are called, but few are chosen." - Matthew 22:14
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." - John 6:63
Blessings in Jesus' name!
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Feb 21, 2019 9:14:37 GMT -5
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ — 1 Peter 1:7
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. — 1 Corinthians 3:12-15
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. — Matthew 24:13
And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire. — Hebrews 12:27-29
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Post by Giller on Feb 21, 2019 10:44:24 GMT -5
Oh I agree totally with all the verses that you guys are mentioning, just disagree with the way scarcely is used.
But yes the trial of our faith is precious.
So I am glad we can at least agree on the points that the trial of our faith is precious, that narrow is the way, that many are called but few are chosen, all 100 % truth.
I do not say that we do not go through things as Christians, we absolutely do, and of course we need to endure till the end.
But this chapter is about judgment starting in the house of God first, because there are many churches who just seek to save the lost (which we should seek to save the lost), but do not take care of the church, and are not concerned about the state of the church.
And as a result, many bring a bad witness to the world, we need to allow God to bring us to the place were he wants us to be.
We need to allow the judgment of God to start in the church first.
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Post by John on Feb 21, 2019 19:31:04 GMT -5
And yes it is talking about true Christians, and it is talking about judgment first starting in the house of God, which speaks of chastisement. And there are true Christians who do suffer as a result of their sins, who suffer as a result of being a busy body and so forth. No a Christian cannot practice sin, but that does not mean that Christians do not fall into sin at times, and we know that there are many immature Christians. Then it says "if", the righteous be scarcely saved, were shall the ungodly and sinner appear. Now we know that the ungodly and sinner can get saved for we were all this at one time, but if we scarcely be saved, scarcely be sanctified, or are being a hindrance to the gospel through a poor witness, then what chance has the ungodly and sinner? Will they even accept our witness? Yes in the bible it says to labor to enter into his rest, but I think scarcely here is used in a different way. No, the ungodly and sinners will not be saved. It is not speaking of their ability to come to Christ and get washed from their sins and no longer be ungodly and sinners. He is saying that if the Christians are scarcely saved, what can we expect will be the end of the ungodly and sinners, people that are not saved or trying to serve the Lord. I don't think this is a comparison of good moral people that get saved verses terrible sinners that get saved. I see it as a comparison of Christians and non-Christians.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Feb 21, 2019 19:50:14 GMT -5
Giller seems to be saying that scarcely saved means kinda-sorta sanctified in our Christian walk. Only partially living the truth. At least I think that’s what he means.
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Post by John on Feb 21, 2019 19:58:19 GMT -5
Giller seems to be saying that scarcely saved means kinda-sorta sanctified in our Christian walk. Only partially living the truth. At least I think that’s what he means. The only problem I would have with that is how are we saying that they are the righteous if we are speaking of the lukewarm? It doesn't say the lukewarm are scarcely saved. I have always taken this passage to mean that those who are truly serving God are scarcely saved. I need to go back and re-examine the entire passage more closely.
It is like at the first, there is a comparison of those who are obedient to those who are in the church but obey not the gospel of God, which could be your lukewarm believers. Then there is a further comparison of the righteous, who he says are scarcely saved, to unsaved people. At least, that is what it looks like to me.
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