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Post by Giller on Feb 22, 2019 1:04:28 GMT -5
Well I will just say this, judgment must first start in the house of God.
And Paul had to deal with many issues in the church.
Some are more grown in the Lord than others, some are bearing more fruit than others, and there are some who are not bearing much fruit that are genuine Christians.
And of course the bible shows that if someone does not eventually bear fruit he can be cut off from the vine.
I will just leave that at that, and one thing I do know is that judgment must first start in the house of God, and it must start there, the church needs to give heed to God's corrections.
God wants the church to be a witness, a good witness to the world, but if a bad witness is shown, it will make it much harder for the unbeliever to receive your witness, and that is a fact.
We need to decrease so he can increase.
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Post by Giller on Feb 22, 2019 1:29:08 GMT -5
1Pe 4:15 (15) But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
This was actually said to Christians, and of course Christians do not practice sin, but can fall into sin.
Now concerning the lukewarm, God said he will spew them out of his mouth if they do not repent.
And concerning "if" someone who is righteous is scarcely saved, God knows what the fine line is towards that.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Feb 22, 2019 9:56:24 GMT -5
This was actually said to Christians, and of course Christians do not practice sin, but can fall into sin. Christians must seek to fight against sin daily. Sin is not an option in a Christian's life, it is an accident.
"For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." - Romans 6:14
I may be seen as a hater for preaching (true) liberty but...
The truth is, or people fight against sin or they fight against God.
You cannot be friend with both.
"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other,
or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." - Matthew 6:24
And giving chance for sin to flourish in our lives opens door to deception.
"So I gave them over to their own stubborn heart,
To walk in their own counsels." - Psalm 81:12
But if people decide to fight against sin, God will help them and fight with them and for them.
"But if you indeed obey His voice and do all that I speak,
then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries." - Exodus 23:22
And having God fighting with you and for you, the victory is guaranteed.
"In the world you will have tribulation;
but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." - John 16:33
"...I have written to you, young men,
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one." - 1 John 2:14
But if they choose sin, God is the one that will fight against them. And the end you already know...
"If one man sins against another, God will judge him.
But if a man sins against the Lord, who will intercede for him?..." - 1 Samuel 2:25
"...unless you repent you will all likewise perish." - Luke 13:3
Blessings in Jesus' name!
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Feb 22, 2019 10:03:49 GMT -5
People who don’t understand the liberty of sinless living are yet in the flesh. They see carnal pleasures as the true joys of life, and thus they see calls to abandon those pleasures as legalism. In reality, the more we remove our flesh to walk in spirit, the happier and more liberated we are. True liberty is found in destroying the tyranny of flesh.
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PG4Him
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Essay Moderator
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Post by PG4Him on Feb 22, 2019 10:04:55 GMT -5
If you don’t see your flesh as a suffocating tyrant, you haven’t yet begun to understand the cross.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Feb 22, 2019 12:00:12 GMT -5
i went back and did some reading and studying on this passage. the word saved in this passage does not mean sanctify/sanctification. its the same word used in other verses....
i posted from KJV+ to include the strongs ref. number. just skip over the numbers until you get to the word saved. I did this to make it easy to see the words are the same.
Mat_10:22 AndG2532 ye shall beG2071 hatedG3404 ofG5259 allG3956 men for my name's sake:G1223 G3450 G3686 butG1161 he that endurethG5278 toG1519 the endG5056 shall be(G3778) saved.G4982
Mat_24:22 AndG2532 exceptG1508 thoseG1565 daysG2250 should be shortened,G2856 there should noG3756 fleshG4561 be saved:G4982 G302 butG1161 for the elect's sakeG1223 G3588 G1588 thoseG1565 daysG2250 shall be shortened.G2856
Luk_7:50 AndG1161 he saidG2036 toG4314 theG3588 woman,G1135 ThyG4675 faithG4102 hath savedG4982 thee;G4571 goG4198 inG1519 peace.G1515
Joh_10:9 IG1473 amG1510 theG3588 door:G2374 byG1223 meG1700 ifG1437 any manG5100 enter in,G1525 he shall be saved,G4982 andG2532 shall go inG1525 andG2532 out,G1831 andG2532 findG2147 pasture.G3542
Act_4:12 NeitherG2532 G3756 isG2076 there salvationG4991 inG1722 anyG3762 other:G243 forG1063 there isG2076 noneG3777 otherG2087 nameG3686 underG5259 heavenG3772 givenG1325 amongG1722 men,G444 wherebyG1722 G3739 weG2248 mustG1163 be saved.G4982
Act_11:14 WhoG3739 shall tellG2980 theeG4571 words,G4487 wherebyG1722 G3739 thouG4771 andG2532 allG3956 thyG4675 houseG3624 shall be saved.G4982
Act_15:11 ButG235 we believeG4100 that throughG1223 theG3588 graceG5485 of theG3588 LordG2962 JesusG2424 ChristG5547 we shall be saved,G4982 even as they.G2596 G3739 G5158 G2548
Act_16:31 AndG1161 theyG3588 said,G2036 BelieveG4100 onG1909 theG3588 LordG2962 JesusG2424 Christ,G5547 andG2532 thouG4771 shalt be saved,G4982 andG2532 thyG4675 house.G3624
I will stop there. eswords search function found 57 verses with the english word saved. only three of the instances i saw was a different word in the greek but still rendered saved in english. 54 instances of saved in the context of saved is a lot. i did not go thru every single verse to check but i did go thru quite a few of them. the word saved in the passage quoted in the OP is the same exact greek word... strongs 4982. it does not mean sanctified. sanctification is only one part of salvation... so it is included in there.
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Post by Abby-Joy on Feb 22, 2019 18:25:27 GMT -5
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ — 1 Peter 1:7
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. — 1 Corinthians 3:12-15
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. — Matthew 24:13
And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire. — Hebrews 12:27-29 I'm late to the conversation, but after reading through the comments and looking into the scripture, I must say that the verses that Candance shared fit what I believe 1 Peter 4 is speaking of. It is talking about suffering for righteousness' sake, as well as enduring trials. We are to rejoice in sufferings if we are suffering for righteousness' sake.
Looking at the meaning of the word translated "scarcely" I believe Candance's references are very much in line with the meaning of 1 Peter 4 (especially verses 12-19). The entire chapter is speaking of abstaining from works of the flesh and living a holy and separated life. And if we suffer, let it be that we suffer for righteousness' sake, and be partakers of Christ's sufferings. It is speaking specifically to the righteous, or those who follow Christ and are clothed with His righteousness. The word translated "scarcely" has this meaning:
Strong's Concordance
molis: with difficulty Original Word: μόλις
Part of Speech: Adverb Transliteration: molis Phonetic Spelling: (mol'-is)
Definition: with difficulty Usage: with difficulty, hardly, scarcely.
HELPS Word-studies
3433 mólis (from mogos, "toil) – properly, something happening with great difficulty, i.e. hardly ("scarcely"). 3433 /mólis ("what barely happens") emphasizes the slight margin by which something comes to pass, i.e. because it is so difficult. [3425 /mógis (from mogos, "laborious toil") focuses on the prolonged nature of a difficulty.]
This very much lends to the idea that the way of a Christ follower is narrow. Judgment begins at the house of God! Our works that are of the flesh will be burned up. What is of God, will remain. So let us walk according to the Spirit, and not the flesh. If judgment begins at the house of God (where our works are tried by fire), where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
I've not been feeling well, so my reply is not as thorough as I'd like it to be.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 22, 2019 20:35:27 GMT -5
Giller seems to be saying that scarcely saved means kinda-sorta sanctified in our Christian walk. Only partially living the truth. At least I think that’s what he means. As much as I love giller . THIS does not Add up nor agree at all with Scripture . JESUS said , LOVE THE LORD with all YOUR HEART no one who is partially living truth , IS SAVED PEROID . Either we love HIM or we don't . their simply is no middle ground . Either we living IN CHRIST for CHRIST , or we living for ourselves and hoping for the best . GOD don't put partial love on our heart. TO say partial love , you may as well say NO LOVE AT ALL . Just the idea and the hope of vanity is all this is . We have got to buckle down now , no we must double and triple down . We must teach the pure truth . partial truth saves none , its only gives the delusion one is saved . Giller is loved , so are you , but we gotta buckle down now and fast . I tell us all, their is no such thing as PARTIAL LOVE , partial love is only LOVE OF SELF .
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Post by Giller on Feb 23, 2019 0:49:41 GMT -5
Giller seems to be saying that scarcely saved means kinda-sorta sanctified in our Christian walk. Only partially living the truth. At least I think that’s what he means. As much as I love giller . THIS does not Add up nor agree at all with Scripture . JESUS said , LOVE THE LORD with all YOUR HEART no one who is partially living truth , IS SAVED PEROID . Either we love HIM or we don't . their simply is no middle ground . Either we living IN CHRIST for CHRIST , or we living for ourselves and hoping for the best . GOD don't put partial love on our heart. TO say partial love , you may as well say NO LOVE AT ALL . Just the idea and the hope of vanity is all this is . We have got to buckle down now , no we must double and triple down . We must teach the pure truth . partial truth saves none , its only gives the delusion one is saved . Giller is loved , so are you , but we gotta buckle down now and fast . I tell us all, their is no such thing as PARTIAL LOVE , partial love is only LOVE OF SELF .
Wow I think people are not really getting at what I am saying, the main part of the 1 Peter chapter does speak of persecution, and the judgment of God, is talking about the chatisement of God, and no we are not to practice sin, for the wages of sin is death. But the fact is that Christians can and do fall into sin at times, we are not to be carnally minded, we are to put on the mind of Christ, but Christians do struggle with sins at times, and some do give a bad witness, which they should not, but if they continue in ways that are not good they can lose their soul, and no one is sinlessly perfect, for if any of you are , then cast the first stone.
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Post by Giller on Feb 23, 2019 0:51:31 GMT -5
And yes there is a lot of fake Christians out there, but not all are fake, and some are new to Christ, yes they will have a love for God, but that does not mean that they have fully put on the mind of Christ, for all of us have to change, let us be careful of self righteousness.
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Post by Giller on Feb 23, 2019 0:55:26 GMT -5
Yes we must seek to fully live the truth, but how many of us are totally perfect in this?
We have to be careful that we do not become holier than thou.
None of us is perfect, though we should strive for it.
People can backslide and eventually lose their soul, but that does not mean they were never Christian to begin with.
Man, man , man, let us be careful not to be so self righteous.
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Post by Giller on Feb 23, 2019 0:59:10 GMT -5
Persecution is persecution, and the judgment of God is the judgment of God.
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Post by Giller on Feb 23, 2019 1:03:36 GMT -5
And of course we should fight the good fight of faith, I am not advocating to not do so, it is easy to be critical of people, very easy.
God is the judge, he knows the heart, and we must love him with all our hearts , minds and souls.
I am not rejecting that at all, but I do reject self righteousness, which is as bad a sin as any other.
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Post by Giller on Feb 23, 2019 1:31:43 GMT -5
We have to be careful with our attitudes in correction also, for just correction itself, does not guarantee that you are walking in the love of God, the attitude has to match up as well.
I will leave this post, with words from David Wilkerson, and we have to remember that Paul did correct bad attitudes in the church, among believers, let us not pretend that that did not happen.
So here is the quote , with more of David's comments, which I totally agree with this:
"Yet, as Peter writes, “If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” (1 Peter 4:18). Peter is speaking about judgment in the house of God. And I for one do not want to be “scarcely saved.”
Paul offers this counsel: “If we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world” (1 Corinthians 11:31–32). So, how are we to judge ourselves, as Paul says to do?
Here is the criterion by which I constantly judge myself: I ask, “Have I in any way hindered the gospel of Christ?” We know that the world cannot hinder the gospel. But the fact is, we who preach it can hinder it. Paul judged himself on this matter, writing, “(I) suffer all things, lest (I) should hinder the gospel of Christ” (1 Corinthians 9:12). The apostle is telling us, in essence, “I have to be careful of how I present the gospel. If I’m materialistically minded, or if I harbor covetousness or lust, I cannot possibly represent Christ accurately. It would cause a hindrance to the gospel I present. No, the way I live has to be a part of the gospel I preach.”
Consider the Corinthians in Paul’s time. They were bringing fancy foods to the feast table, while the poor among them didn’t have any food at all. Paul told them, in so many words, “You’re not really concerned about the needs of Christ’s body if your eye is only fixed on how to better your own life. You simply can’t be focused on God’s concerns if you don’t care whether your brother has enough money for his next meal.”
Any works or ministry that’s done with such a mindset won’t endure the Lord’s holy fire. Large numbers, successful methods and monumental achievements won’t mean anything in that hour, because God judges the motives of the heart. The question we have to ask ourselves today is, “Am I doing this for recognition? To be somebody? To secure my own future, with no regard for my brothers or sisters in need?” Make no mistake: the gospel of Jesus Christ goes forth unhindered, mighty and unstoppable. But this happens only when it is preached and taught in its fullness. It has to be delivered in the context of “the whole counsel of God.” As Paul says, “I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God” (Acts 20:27, italics mine).
A watered-down half-gospel is an abomination to the Lord. You see, I could write to you each month, saying, “Jesus loves you and wants to bless you. He wants you to enjoy your life. He desires to give you miracle after miracle.” This would be pure gospel truth. But it is only half the truth of the gospel. The whole gospel also includes warnings against the deceitfulness of sin. It includes repentance and godly sorrow, preparation for persecution, and a yearning for the coming of Christ. Scripture tells us in no uncertain terms, “Follow…holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14). The gospel of Christ always confronts man and then brings comfort to him. It will never accommodate the likes of sinful men."
Now if Christians eventually do not take heed to the chastisement of the Lord, they can backslide and eventually lose their soul, so this is a very serious thing, and God knows the limits, the boundaries of what being scarcely saved is, I will leave that judgment in God's hands, but no believer should ever desire to be one who is just making it, they should want to thrive in the Lord.
I will leave that judgment to God, and not place myself as God.
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Post by Giller on Feb 23, 2019 1:46:34 GMT -5
Here is another scripture to consider:
1Co 3:11-15 (11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (12) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; (13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. (14) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. (15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
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