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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2019 18:48:32 GMT -5
How should Christians respond to claims of a recent convert?
Claims that one has converted to Christianity are almost always met with doubt from the non-Christian world. Sometimes, there is also skepticism from the Christian world. There are reasons for this skepticism, both good and bad. When the supposed convert is someone with a high-profile, the scrutiny is amplified. Kanye West—who as of this writing, has indicated his conversion and begun promoting Christian music—is a recent example.
The book of Acts presents two “test cases” we should keep in mind when hearing news about someone’s purported salvation. Paul was an active enemy of the faith until his conversion (Acts 9:1–6), resulting in skepticism among believers (Acts 9:21, 26). Eventually, Paul’s actions proved his faith (2 Corinthians 11:23–30). Apollos was eloquent and passionate but imperfect in his doctrine, until more experienced believers gave him supportive guidance (Acts 18:24–28).
As believers, we are wise to be cautiously skeptical about spiritual claims (1 John 4:1). We ought to gauge what other people say and do against the Bible (1 Corinthians 4:6; Acts 17:11). At the same time, we’re not to be unfair or unkind, especially to those who are less spiritually mature (1 Peter 3:15–16). Christians are also not in any position to say, for certain, what is happening between another person and God (1 Samuel 16:7).
In short, the proper response to anyone’s supposed conversion is to say, “Praise God, and let’s hope it’s real!” So long as their words and actions represent someone sincerely seeking Christ, we ought to treat their claims with a charitable spirit. That does not mean pointing out every possible flaw or misstep as a sign of a false convert. Neither does it mean ignoring or brushing aside unbiblical statements or actions.
A cautious approach to claims of conversion are supported by clear principles laid out in the Bible:
• Coming to saving faith in Christ is inherently simple. A person doesn’t need to be an expert in theology to be saved (Luke 18:16). Salvation is possible for anyone, no matter how “unlikely” of a candidate he or she may be (1 Corinthians 6:9–11).
• A recent convert should not be thrust into a leadership role. 1 Timothy 3:6 explicitly warns against this: “He (a church leader) must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.” A person being successful in life and/or in a leadership position before becoming a Christian does not qualify him/her for leadership in the Body of Christ. Spiritual growth and maturity take time.
• When a person claims to be a new convert, he needs discipleship and support (Acts 18:24–26). New believers don’t need nitpicky criticism or cynical dismissal (1 Thessalonians 2:11; 2 Timothy 2:24–25).
• Those young in the faith might say or support things that more mature believers would reject. This makes them spiritually immature—it does not automatically mean they are lost (Hebrews 5:14).
• False conversions are a real thing, so being hopeful and supportive does not mean being naïve (Matthew 7:21–23).
• Over time, a convert’s words, attitudes, and actions will either reflect saving faith, or they won’t (John 13:34–35; 14:15; 1 John 2:19). “By their fruit you will recognize them” (Matthew 7:20).
• As believers, we should celebrate positive attitudes toward Christ, even if it turns out the person expressing them has less-than-perfect motives (Philippians 1:15–18).
• Above all, Christians need to remember our calling to judge with right judgment (John 7:24). That starts by recognizing that only God knows exactly what happens in another person’s heart (1 Samuel 16:7).
Whether or not someone is “truly saved” is not something we or anyone else can answer with certainty. Time will tell whether Kanye West’s claimed commitment to Christ is lasting or temporary. Time will tell whether a person’s claimed faith is secure and real or shallow and artificial. In that sense, Kanye West is no different than any other person who has ever lived. If he examines his own life, he will have the opportunity to see if he is truly “in the faith” (2 Corinthians 13:5).
Until or unless West turns against the faith or stubbornly endorses heresy, Christians should offer measured support. Our response to those who newly claim the name of Christ ought to be along the lines of “that’s wonderful, let’s learn and grow together,” not some version of “yeah, right.”
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Nov 27, 2019 5:01:18 GMT -5
What a well-written and we'll explained article!
I heard of Kanye West's conversion through a conservative podcast. It really encouraged my husband and I. I definitely want to remember that even famous celebrities are not beyond our prayers.
I am excited about his new Christian hip hop album and have listened to one of the songs. I've always thought of him as a talented producer. For him to give God glory with that talent is really amazing to me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 7:02:53 GMT -5
I agree to give time for a person to grow and for fruits to show, etc. And pray that they not be led astray. We sure do hope and pray for the best, especially in these dark days of spiritual famine, we long to see something encouraging. But at the same time be aware that we live in very deceptive times and the devil is being very tricky and pulling out all the stops. He knows how people follow celebrities. Kanye has already been on stage at Joel Osteens's church....so what message are millions of Kanye's fans receiving from that? So we should pray that his fans don't get led astray either. Kelly Clarkson is also purportedly Christian but sadly she belongs to the "broad way church"...they even gave her a new TV show and I have to wonder why. Do not follow celebrities, do not follow ANYONE but Jesus.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 7:07:23 GMT -5
How should Christians respond to claims of a recent convert?
Claims that one has converted to Christianity are almost always met with doubt from the non-Christian world. Sometimes, there is also skepticism from the Christian world. There are reasons for this skepticism, both good and bad. When the supposed convert is someone with a high-profile, the scrutiny is amplified. Kanye West—who as of this writing, has indicated his conversion and begun promoting Christian music—is a recent example.
The book of Acts presents two “test cases” we should keep in mind when hearing news about someone’s purported salvation. Paul was an active enemy of the faith until his conversion (Acts 9:1–6), resulting in skepticism among believers (Acts 9:21, 26). Eventually, Paul’s actions proved his faith (2 Corinthians 11:23–30). Apollos was eloquent and passionate but imperfect in his doctrine, until more experienced believers gave him supportive guidance (Acts 18:24–28).
As believers, we are wise to be cautiously skeptical about spiritual claims (1 John 4:1). We ought to gauge what other people say and do against the Bible (1 Corinthians 4:6; Acts 17:11). At the same time, we’re not to be unfair or unkind, especially to those who are less spiritually mature (1 Peter 3:15–16). Christians are also not in any position to say, for certain, what is happening between another person and God (1 Samuel 16:7).
In short, the proper response to anyone’s supposed conversion is to say, “Praise God, and let’s hope it’s real!” So long as their words and actions represent someone sincerely seeking Christ, we ought to treat their claims with a charitable spirit. That does not mean pointing out every possible flaw or misstep as a sign of a false convert. Neither does it mean ignoring or brushing aside unbiblical statements or actions.
A cautious approach to claims of conversion are supported by clear principles laid out in the Bible:
• Coming to saving faith in Christ is inherently simple. A person doesn’t need to be an expert in theology to be saved (Luke 18:16). Salvation is possible for anyone, no matter how “unlikely” of a candidate he or she may be (1 Corinthians 6:9–11).
• A recent convert should not be thrust into a leadership role. 1 Timothy 3:6 explicitly warns against this: “He (a church leader) must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.” A person being successful in life and/or in a leadership position before becoming a Christian does not qualify him/her for leadership in the Body of Christ. Spiritual growth and maturity take time.
• When a person claims to be a new convert, he needs discipleship and support (Acts 18:24–26). New believers don’t need nitpicky criticism or cynical dismissal (1 Thessalonians 2:11; 2 Timothy 2:24–25).
• Those young in the faith might say or support things that more mature believers would reject. This makes them spiritually immature—it does not automatically mean they are lost (Hebrews 5:14).
• False conversions are a real thing, so being hopeful and supportive does not mean being naïve (Matthew 7:21–23).
• Over time, a convert’s words, attitudes, and actions will either reflect saving faith, or they won’t (John 13:34–35; 14:15; 1 John 2:19). “By their fruit you will recognize them” (Matthew 7:20).
• As believers, we should celebrate positive attitudes toward Christ, even if it turns out the person expressing them has less-than-perfect motives (Philippians 1:15–18).
• Above all, Christians need to remember our calling to judge with right judgment (John 7:24). That starts by recognizing that only God knows exactly what happens in another person’s heart (1 Samuel 16:7).
Whether or not someone is “truly saved” is not something we or anyone else can answer with certainty. Time will tell whether Kanye West’s claimed commitment to Christ is lasting or temporary. Time will tell whether a person’s claimed faith is secure and real or shallow and artificial. In that sense, Kanye West is no different than any other person who has ever lived. If he examines his own life, he will have the opportunity to see if he is truly “in the faith” (2 Corinthians 13:5).
Until or unless West turns against the faith or stubbornly endorses heresy, Christians should offer measured support. Our response to those who newly claim the name of Christ ought to be along the lines of “that’s wonderful, let’s learn and grow together,” not some version of “yeah, right.” The Lord would not have us walking around with a "yeah, right" attitude, but certainly we need to be sober and alert and test everything.
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Post by frienduff on Nov 27, 2019 9:30:39 GMT -5
I agree to give time for a person to grow and for fruits to show, etc. And pray that they not be led astray. We sure do hope and pray for the best, especially in these dark days of spiritual famine, we long to see something encouraging. But at the same time be aware that we live in very deceptive times and the devil is being very tricky and pulling out all the stops. He knows how people follow celebrities. Kanye has already been on stage at Joel Osteens's church....so what message are millions of Kanye's fans receiving from that? So we should pray that his fans don't get led astray either. Kelly Clarkson is also purportedly Christian but sadly she belongs to the "broad way church"...they even gave her a new TV show and I have to wonder why. Do not follow celebrities, do not follow ANYONE but Jesus. This is spot on right accurate . THIS is how we respond to a conversion . I never accuse someone who says they believe in JESUS , BUT I SURE DO examine the fruits . What I also say next , keep an eye on .
WE WILL all witness KANYE gathering with only more of the broad way ones . Just watch . FOR sure we should be praying HE FLEES this and seeks CHRIST ALONE .
But his fruits are showing that he is far more into just gathering with whomever . His fruits , As of RIGHT NOW , show me he is just another change agent who is doing the work of a spirit of unity and gathering . The SPIRIT never led me to gather with olstein . That is what we need to recognize . IF the SPIRIT drew us away from the broad way , WHY is Kanye being drawn toward the broad way . What I saw at kaiiros twenty seventeen should be a dire dire warning . When Kenneth was on stage and being asked questions . THE DUDE was answering like a born again christain , he was putting the focus on JESUS and the gospel but and yet , WE KNOW he is doing the will of pope francis . SO we cannot be led into ever thinking just because one can tell of a good conversion , or use the name of JESUS a lot , IT DONT mean they are not a deceiver . WE don't assume they are one way or the other , BUT WE MUST test all the fruits and do so always . Because unless repentance is given unto Kanye , You all mark my words and take this to the bank , YOU GONNA SEE HIM gather with only more broad way ones and the focus will be NOT on sound doctrine , but on sensual love , gathering , unity etc .
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Post by Giller on Nov 27, 2019 11:43:21 GMT -5
Whether Kanye truly did convert or not, one thing I do know, is that he needs to get out of what he is into, in this celebrity stuff, the hip hop, and affiliations with Joel Osteen.
I just pray that some mature Christian in the Lord, comes in his pathway, so that that mature Christian can show Kanye the ways of the Lord, more perfectly, and pray that Kanye may be open to it, to receiving correction or being shown the way of the Lord, and the way of holiness.
If his love for the Lord is genuine, the Holy Spirit will always draw him to gravitate towards his ways of holiness more and more, and I know that I do not bear witness in what Kanye is getting into.
I just pray that he can be shown, and that he is open to see.
I want the best for him.
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Post by Giller on Nov 27, 2019 12:00:22 GMT -5
I think we should really pray for Kanye.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Nov 27, 2019 21:56:04 GMT -5
not all of us have a Barnabus...
Act 9:26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. Act 9:27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
LOL. nothing new under the son... EH?
I am not following the kayne west movement. I dont care too. I do hope The Spirit of The LORD lives in him, and that God will use Him to draw people to God.
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Cletus
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Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Nov 27, 2019 22:05:14 GMT -5
I kept smoking pot for a long time after i got saved. I even used to think if i burned a couple fatties before church it would help me to understand better. Soon enough God dealt with me. Some folks God takes fast... others He takes His time with. I do not think we should take a holier than thou stance, but i do think Kanye would not be naming the name of Christ as LORD if he did not have The Spirit in him. look at all he has gone thru with people shunning him already in "the industry"
we should not do the same... but we should also support a holy lifestyle.
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Post by Giller on Nov 28, 2019 11:43:11 GMT -5
I kept smoking pot for a long time after i got saved. I even used to think if i burned a couple fatties before church it would help me to understand better. Soon enough God dealt with me. Some folks God takes fast... others He takes His time with. I do not think we should take a holier than thou stance, but i do think Kanye would not be naming the name of Christ as LORD if he did not have The Spirit in him. look at all he has gone thru with people shunning him already in "the industry" we should not do the same... but we should also support a holy lifestyle. Oh I agree with not taking an holier than thou attitude, and I would not be surprise if Kanye did receive Christ, but he does need guidance, just like we needed guidance at the beginning of our walk. I do pray that God uses him in whatever means, but I do know that in the things that I have seen that he has started, or what he is into, at least some of the stuff I have seen, seems to be on the worldly side. He may not know better, and I do not judge him as being a Christian or not a Christian as a result, just am concerned, and if he continues to put his faith in God, God will show him, though I do pray God will send some mature Christian in his pathway. Many times some preachers even false ones, will take advantage of new Christians and teach them there ways.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Nov 28, 2019 14:15:27 GMT -5
I kept smoking pot for a long time after i got saved. I even used to think if i burned a couple fatties before church it would help me to understand better. Soon enough God dealt with me. Some folks God takes fast... others He takes His time with. I do not think we should take a holier than thou stance, but i do think Kanye would not be naming the name of Christ as LORD if he did not have The Spirit in him. look at all he has gone thru with people shunning him already in "the industry" we should not do the same... but we should also support a holy lifestyle. Oh I agree with not taking an holier than thou attitude, and I would not be surprise if Kanye did receive Christ, but he does need guidance, just like we needed guidance at the beginning of our walk. I do pray that God uses him in whatever means, but I do know that in the things that I have seen that he has started, or what he is into, at least some of the stuff I have seen, seems to be on the worldly side. He may not know better, and I do not judge him as being a Christian or not a Christian as a result, just am concerned, and if he continues to put his faith in God, God will show him, though I do pray God will send some mature Christian in his pathway. Many times some preachers even false ones, will take advantage of new Christians and teach them there ways. and thats why i dont concern myself with keeping up to date with kanyes doings or not doings... God Is Faithful.
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Post by Giller on Nov 28, 2019 14:28:31 GMT -5
Oh I agree with not taking an holier than thou attitude, and I would not be surprise if Kanye did receive Christ, but he does need guidance, just like we needed guidance at the beginning of our walk. I do pray that God uses him in whatever means, but I do know that in the things that I have seen that he has started, or what he is into, at least some of the stuff I have seen, seems to be on the worldly side. He may not know better, and I do not judge him as being a Christian or not a Christian as a result, just am concerned, and if he continues to put his faith in God, God will show him, though I do pray God will send some mature Christian in his pathway. Many times some preachers even false ones, will take advantage of new Christians and teach them there ways. and thats why i dont concern myself with keeping up to date with kanyes doings or not doings... God Is Faithful. I personally have actuality not been keeping up with Kanye, there are just some things I came across and seen, and as a result of seeing these things, I can make a judgment concerning what I saw. Yes God is faithful, he does the work, but it is still right to want to pray for him, and desire that a mature Christian comes on his pathway, many false teachers take advantage of young converts and lead them the wrong way, I think being concerned about these things is right.
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Post by Giller on Nov 28, 2019 14:30:39 GMT -5
As well I know that I have not attained, and always need more of him.
My attitude towards this is not self righteous at all, and if you were to hear me talk about it, you would know in what way I am saying this.
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Post by Giller on Nov 28, 2019 14:36:24 GMT -5
I am not a person that goes and just seeks out for someone to speak against, not at all.
Though if something is brought to my attention, and that I should look into a situation or a person, I will look into it.
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Post by Giller on Nov 28, 2019 14:46:31 GMT -5
Though concerning Kanye, I have heard reports that he was not treated right with some certain Christians, and this is only things people told me about, not something I went searching after.
And if he was, and the reports are truly accurate, then all the more I pray that a mature Christian comes his way, for right now he is getting involved in some way, with Joel Osteen, and the only reason I know this, is because I was watching a news cast, and in that news cast it just happen to show this story of Kanye in it, but the rest of the news was not at all about this.
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