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Post by John on Feb 24, 2020 18:34:20 GMT -5
its error to The LORD also. repentance is to be a continuous attitude of the heart, a way of life even. The bible names a man who did live this way unto God: Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. Job 1:2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. Job 1:3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east. Job 1:4 And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them. Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
Dezi, to read your posts from when you first came here until today... thank God for what He is doing in your life. He is for sure revealing truth to you. no one can ever take this from you. no matter what they say... you know. it is a treasure with worth that cant be measured. God is good!
Thank you Cletus for saying this. Nobody here can even fathom where God has brought me in the last 2 years. I was such a sinner that thought I knew Him but I just knew what had been taught to me in "church". So much was false and I was in great deception. I am learning so much about the Lord and His truth now! It's a process and I can't learn it all at once but I learn more every day. I am humbled before my God! I am such a dirty sinner! I have wronged him in almost every way possible! He has forgiven me and there is no way to tell you how I feel about that! I am still physically and mentally suffering but I am also rejoicing in what this horrible thing that has happened to me has done for me! I have found the ONE TRUE GOD! I give HIM all Glory and Honor and Praise for allowing me to go through this hell on earth to keep me from the true Hell that is for eternity! I pray everyone here counts their losses as gain! Praise God for that wonderful testimony, but you are not a dirty sinner today. The Lord has washed you clean. You are a new creation in Christ Jesus. You are now among the saints of God. Old things have passed away, behold, all things are become new. \o/
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Feb 24, 2020 18:43:59 GMT -5
Dezi, I must second what Butero has said. check this out and pray about it:
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
from here on out its ok to say i have sinned... but you do not belong to yourself anymore. you dont have the right to talk that way about SomeOne Else's servant.
it is offensive to God when He makes something clean and we call it unclean... so dont say i am a dirty sinner... say i have sinned.
i do not say this to be critical of you, but instead to help you in being successful in Jesus Christ, step by step.
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Post by John on Feb 24, 2020 18:47:14 GMT -5
At most, calling the front of the church where people pray is a poor choice of words based on a misunderstanding. That is at most. I didn't find the videos offensive, but accusing churches of doing something sac-religious and blasphemous because they have an altar is offensive and FALSE! Yes, words matter, and those words are highly inappropriate. I realize this topic has stirred up emotions, both by those who attend a church and those who do not, but try not to let it get to you. I do not agree with Watchful's comments either. I think they are way over the top, but lets try to avoid the all caps stuff.
In reality, this has been a very good discussion. No matter how you look at it, this has made us all have to consider why we do what we do. Why do we have an altar? Why do we call a building a church? Are these just man-made things carried over into Protestant congregations from the RCC? I have told you why I think altar is fitting for what is taking place, and my reason for being okay with calling a building a church is because it is the regular meeting place for a congregation, and that is all it is denoting. I think everyone recognizes that if the congregation were taken away, it is no longer a church. I have seen old building that were once used by a congregation turned into storage facilities and banks. They are no longer called a church.
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Post by John on Feb 24, 2020 18:51:28 GMT -5
Dezi, I must second what Butero has said. check this out and pray about it: Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. from here on out its ok to say i have sinned... but you do not belong to yourself anymore. you dont have the right to talk that way about SomeOne Else's servant. it is offensive to God when He makes something clean and we call it unclean... so dont say i am a dirty sinner... say i have sinned. i do not say this to be critical of you, but instead to help you in being successful in Jesus Christ, step by step. When you talk to sister Dezi, you know you are not talking to a filthy sinner. She may have once been one of the worst offenders, but she clearly is not today! We can see God's work in her heart, and it is such a blessing to witness it.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 24, 2020 19:07:28 GMT -5
Lets expound even more on this topic dear sister . cause I want this to sink real deep into all hearts . Exactly right sister . Most folks either have quenched the Spirit or in truth never had it . THEY do things their own way , and seeker friendly is a fat example of this so is hermeneutics So is many traditions , not all traditions but many . They go about to Find their own way , their own path to getting things done . THEY believe they have wisdom and they have found a better way of doing things , YET HOW COME the way they DO does not line up with the WAY JESUS DID or the apostels did Church and all things . JESUS never said tone down anything to try and make converts , JESUS never said hug them to GOD and don't focus on their errors . JESUS never said many things they do and have done for years . And when I say many things they do and have done for years , I AM talking about the many things they do that CONTRADICT JESUS , the SCRITPURES and the very pattern HE set up and the apostels set up . They preach what they think is a love that will save all and get all to gather as one , YET their religion and love has failed to save those who sit under them in fact ITS A DELSUION and a lie that leads folks away from TRUSTING IN JESUS , TRUSTING IN HIM as the ONLY MEANS of salvation , From trusting in the YE MUST CONFESS HIM BY MOUTH and Believe that GOD has raised him from the dead . Many things they do and much hermuenitcis and greek so called they use to justify their religion . But its all dead and its all bad news . EITHER we follow the lamb or we follow men . EITHER we HEED the SPIRIT or we heed worldwise flesh led men Either we flee the false tabernacle and serve the true one in heaven , or we serve the tabernacle of men . Either we love and obey JESUS or we love and obey men . BUT IT CANT be and wont be BOTH . CHOOSE YE THIS DAY WHOM YE SHALL SERVE and DO SO DAILY , for the lambs IT SHALL BE JESUS CHRIST ALONE . I shudder with great fear for the many who do this not . I must tell you that your words make me so excited for God... I am not trying to build you up more than should be but I do want to tell you how instrumental you have been in my own conversion. You are one of the handful of people that have brought so much truth to me.... helped the veil to be removed from my eyes! The Holy Spirit has used you to save me brother! I am so thankful for men like you that allow HIM to use them. Let's all take heed and learn to do this and much more. I am praying for the Lord to help me know how to put the scriptures together to show others truth! Sister , I used to be so world wise that most all of worthy would have bowed at my feet in total awe . cause truth is most folks just love that carnal wise Hermes knowledge . Now I am seen as the big dummy who is just a simple one . Guess what , I would trade none of it in . Not once . Let the world and ninety eight percent of christains see me as a dumb ignnorant non world wise man , I GOT ALL I NEED , JESUS , the SPIRIT and the bible . You are loved sister . I just keep it simple . And I have great joy doing it . You are loved . Sis , I been called anti Christ and son of perdtion by some folks , but those same folks also , love folks like todd white , Kenneth copleand and all those world wise smart sounding men . ME , and you and and the true lambs here and everywhere , ALL WE NEED IS GOD and let us be as small children with total hope in the LORD ALONE . They can keep their smart sounding speechs , JUST GIVE ME JESUS and all the persecutoin that comes with it . AND I WILL BE HAPPY and DIE HAPPY.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 19:11:05 GMT -5
Amen....and really in light of that it's sacreligious and blasphemous and maybe even an abomination for believers in the risen Christ to call a mere physical location the altar where we meet with God! Truly wish they would stop doing that. I can accept that perhaps we shouldn't call it an altar, but calling it sac-religious and blasphemous is ABSURD! It is absolute NONSENSE!!!I don't know if that was overstating the case or not, but it honestly struck me that way...thinking of something holy and heavenly. People try to justify and do all kinds of things out of ignorance that is blasphmeous etc.....from heaven's point of view.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 24, 2020 19:15:42 GMT -5
At most, calling the front of the church where people pray is a poor choice of words based on a misunderstanding. That is at most. I didn't find the videos offensive, but accusing churches of doing something sac-religious and blasphemous because they have an altar is offensive and FALSE! Yes, words matter, and those words are highly inappropriate. Sometimes folks can go a little too far . I know what I know , and we are to present ourselves as a living sacrifice . but I would not call a church that has a pew or alter of satan etiher . I look at what they teach . I mean I seen some folks even go so far as to say we cant use musical instruments and such . I am dead set against the way of this modern worship junk , Not due to instruments , due to the techniques and then the doctrine that follows the worship . The point is , I would never make a big fuss about alter calls and so forth . I know the alter is where we pray . because in truth the alter IS IN HEAVEN . but if some folks want to make a pew for some to come down and kneel before and pray to GOD , why on earth would I fight , fight and continue to fight over such things . I choose to fight against the men of belial who bring folks down to alters , BEFORE A FALSE JESUS . BEFORE a false gospel , and thus create false converts . I know already the alter is in heaven and we are the living sacrifcies , aka dead to sin alive to GOD . But I would not fight and strive over alter calls and so forth . My fight will be against the men and women of belial who present a false jesus that panders to the flesh and thus the conversion is false .
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Post by frienduff on Feb 24, 2020 22:02:45 GMT -5
Dezi , You are LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVED . Count not the O s , just know its lots of them . Now hands up everyone , ITS TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD .
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on Feb 24, 2020 22:04:42 GMT -5
Dezi , You are LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVED . Count not the O s , just know its lots of them . Now hands up everyone , ITS TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD . God LOVES US Dear Brother! He is worth the cost! He loves us so much! No Greater love!
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Post by frienduff on Feb 24, 2020 22:11:02 GMT -5
Dezi , You are LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVED . Count not the O s , just know its lots of them . Now hands up everyone , ITS TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD . God LOVES US Dear Brother! He is worth the cost! He loves us so much! No Greater love! YES HE IS DEAR SISTER . YES HE IS . GIVE ME JESUS and all the persecutions that come with it , and still I will be a happy man and even die a happy man . JESUS IS ALL WE NEED . ALL ……………………..WE …………………………...NEED . YEP . so hands up sister . the lambs gonna march on , feasting on our bibles , loving every word HE SPOKE and heeding HIM . Lift those hands up , sister , and let us praise the LORD
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Feb 25, 2020 8:51:51 GMT -5
Now about altar calls, are we using the word altar in a way that God would approve of. I really do not care about what I think, or what anyone thinks, I really want to see the way God sees things. And I think in this area, we sometimes can be very flippant of how we use the words of God. There seems to be more a focus of not offending someone, rather than seeking the meaning God put to it. Now God is very patient with us, and I thank God he is, and he knows our hearts. But how much are we concerned about offending God? Just using his word, putting our approval to it, yet not caring in a big way to how God sees it, or if even it is an offence to him? Let us get to this word altar. Jas 2:21 (21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? The word altar means this: (Strong's concordance, word altar)
(G2379 θυσιαστήριον thusiastērion thoo-see-as-tay'-ree-on
From a derivative of G2378; a place of sacrifice, that is, an altar (specifically or generally, literally or figuratively): - altar. Total KJV occurrences: 23)The altar is a place of sacrifice. In essence the cross was the place of Jesus' sacrifice. Now I am 100% for people being called up front for prayer, but often times they make the front of the building the altar, they say come to the altar. What I would say, instead of come to the altar, I would say, just say come up front for prayer, rather than risk offending God, or adding my own meaning to the word altar. So the altar is a place of sacrifice, but how would that apply to us as a church? Remember what the sacrifice was, it was Jesus himself. Now the altar was not Jesus, but the sacrifice sure was. Rev 6:9 (9) And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: Now we can see that there is an heavenly altar, and also the bible mentions somewhere about shaking the horns at the altar, well when we seek God in prayer, we are coming before his heavenly altar. So church wise, we do not come before the altar by going somewhere in a building, whether it be up front, in the back or in the middle of the building, but rather we come before the altar, when we seek him in prayer, whether your are seated in the back, the front, in the middle, or outside. Why make a specific place in a building the altar, when what God wants is for us to come before what truly is the altar, which is in heaven? So does that mean that if I did not come up front, even though I prayed while being in the back, that I did not come before the altar? Some might say this is nit picking, but we have to go by what the word says, why are we more concerned about offending men rather than offending God? You could say to just come to the front to pray, and there would be nothing wrong with that. At the same time, I can defend the use of the word altar in an altar call. There is a sacrifice taking place. The old man or woman is being put to death, and they are coming forward to be born again. They are dying to self. Much of the time, that is what people are doing when they come to an altar is crucifying the flesh in one form or another. People do often come forward for prayer for other things as well, like healing, but a lot of the time, there is an actual sacrifice taking place.
When we think of sacrifice, we usually do think of something being put to death, but we sometimes speak of giving a sacrifice of praise to God. That is especially true when we are not feeling well, in a dry spell spiritually. There are things we say we lay on the altar, like habits. I think that is the reason why they call it an altar, and even using your own Dictionary definition, I think it would allow for it. I did say that to me this was being nit picky, and I still think it is, in light of how I see it being an altar.
I don't know why that didn't occur to me. It is a place of sacrifice.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Feb 25, 2020 8:55:28 GMT -5
At most, calling the front of the church where people pray is a poor choice of words based on a misunderstanding. That is at most. I didn't find the videos offensive, but accusing churches of doing something sac-religious and blasphemous because they have an altar is offensive and FALSE! Yes, words matter, and those words are highly inappropriate. I realize this topic has stirred up emotions, both by those who attend a church and those who do not, but try not to let it get to you. I do not agree with Watchful's comments either. I think they are way over the top, but lets try to avoid the all caps stuff.
In reality, this has been a very good discussion. No matter how you look at it, this has made us all have to consider why we do what we do. Why do we have an altar? Why do we call a building a church? Are these just man-made things carried over into Protestant congregations from the RCC? I have told you why I think altar is fitting for what is taking place, and my reason for being okay with calling a building a church is because it is the regular meeting place for a congregation, and that is all it is denoting. I think everyone recognizes that if the congregation were taken away, it is no longer a church. I have seen old building that were once used by a congregation turned into storage facilities and banks. They are no longer called a church.
Okay. I will stop with the all caps.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 25, 2020 10:12:38 GMT -5
You could say to just come to the front to pray, and there would be nothing wrong with that. At the same time, I can defend the use of the word altar in an altar call. There is a sacrifice taking place. The old man or woman is being put to death, and they are coming forward to be born again. They are dying to self. Much of the time, that is what people are doing when they come to an altar is crucifying the flesh in one form or another. People do often come forward for prayer for other things as well, like healing, but a lot of the time, there is an actual sacrifice taking place.
When we think of sacrifice, we usually do think of something being put to death, but we sometimes speak of giving a sacrifice of praise to God. That is especially true when we are not feeling well, in a dry spell spiritually. There are things we say we lay on the altar, like habits. I think that is the reason why they call it an altar, and even using your own Dictionary definition, I think it would allow for it. I did say that to me this was being nit picky, and I still think it is, in light of how I see it being an altar.
I don't know why that didn't occur to me. It is a place of sacrifice. I am sure everyone will agree with this next thing . The alter sure is a place of sacrifice . As Abraham offered up Issac upon the alter , let all lambs offer up themselves upon the alter as being dead to sin , but alive unto Christ . let all lambs present themselves as a living sacrifice unto the lamb WHO was made THE SACRIFICE for all who do love Him . Just follow the SPIRIT , OBEYING THE SPIRIT and heeding not the flesh . Let not that which we are to be dead to , which is sin , come alive and take control of us . HEED the lamb FOLLOW THE SPIRIT and HEED it continually . These are dangerous times , and by dangerous I mean highly deceptive . Many will try and teach otherwise and will make it seem as though God puts obedience second to things . TRUTH is , GOD DESIRES obedience above all other things . God does take pleasure in our praises , but not the praises of those who walk in willfull sin . Who obey HIM NOT . He never has and never will . For a man can praise him most the day long and yet if they walk after the flesh , GOD is not pleased with that , nor will it profit that soul at all . Present those bodies a living sacrifice , not a dead sacrifice of being alive unto sin , But dead to sin and ALIVE UNTO CHRIST . Let not the men and women of belial turn any from the true path which is in CHRIST and be turned aside to another gospel or image of jesus . The original pattern must be kept and loved and lambs must endure Faithful unto the end . NO crown awaits any , if the race is not faithfully finished . It matters not if one started the race strong and sprinted even ahead of others , and yet sin tires him out and he stops the race . IF he stops the race , there is no crown . FOR he has abandoned and denied JESUS He has denied the faith . And the early apostels knew that . They knew it , cause they had seen it in some . Some have already turned aside from Christ , unto satan . Having damnation because they have cast off what , their first faith or first love . WHICH MEANS they had good faith and good love and yet ……………….. Lambs must continue IN THE LAMB unto the end . For those who are LED OF the SPIRIT are the sons and daughters of GOD . DO notice that say LED of the SPIRIT . WELL if I am walking a horse on a rope and it yanks its head back and pulls that rope outta my hand and no longer follows me , IS THAT HORSE BEING LED OF ME STILL or DOING ITS OWN THING . EXACTLY . IF we take off from heeding HE who is from heaven , the unctions of the SPIRIT and begin to follow the lusts of the flesh , WE are not FOLLOWING , being LED OF HIM anymore . THUS if a horse yanks that rope out of the hand of its master , IT BETTER REPENT and coming running back to its master , FOR ITS TOO LATE . me thinks folks don't see that anymore . But rest assured who we are LED OF and follow , aka OBEY , IS WHOSE WE ARE .
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Post by solid on Feb 25, 2020 10:17:47 GMT -5
It is promoting lawlessness, and it is because of these kind of attacks people are falling away from the faith. They leave the church and become self willed. They do what seems right in their own eyes and call that following God. Thank God for his mercy indeed! Interesting that is the exact accusation Rome uses as well, to keep their people from leaving "the church". Religion is all about manipulation, guilt, power and control, in order to take and keep people CAPTIVE. Who has ears to hear let him hear. Do you have proof that Rome used that argument, because it sounds made up to me?
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Post by solid on Feb 25, 2020 10:34:19 GMT -5
It is promoting lawlessness, and it is because of these kind of attacks people are falling away from the faith. They leave the church and become self willed. They do what seems right in their own eyes and call that following God. Thank God for his mercy indeed! Interesting that is the exact accusation Rome uses as well, to keep their people from leaving "the church". Religion is all about manipulation, guilt, power and control, in order to take and keep people CAPTIVE. Who has ears to hear let him hear. Who has ears to hear, let him hear? Do you think you are Jesus? I don't believe you speak for God and I don't receive it!
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