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Post by 2fw8212a on Apr 22, 2020 16:57:28 GMT -5
... Now I must ask the question, why is all things pure to the pure? ... Because they do not see things from the perspective of an evil heart.
The unbelieving, who see things from the perspective of an evil heart will see evil in all things.
To make a test pick a child that is pure and tell them a dirty joke.
Will they find it funny? No, they will not even understand the evil connection.
Now, let us say the same child start repeating that joke even without understanding...
What will people with evil hearts think? They will call that child a pervert, a child of hell, and things like that.
The result: Child is stoned to death without understanding why.
Now, to the unbelieving nothing is pure, not even the Bible.
Because they read something and interprets it in a way and use that to practice more evil.
Blessings!
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Post by Giller on Apr 22, 2020 17:14:25 GMT -5
... Now I must ask the question, why is all things pure to the pure? ... Because they do not see things from the perspective of an evil heart.
The unbelieving, who see things from the perspective of an evil heart will see evil in all things.
To make a test pick a child that is pure and tell them a dirty joke.
Will they find it funny? No, they will not even understand the evil connection.
Now, let us say the same child start repeating that joke even without understanding...
What will people with evil hearts think? They will call that child a pervert, a child of hell, and things like that.
The result: Child is stoned to death without understanding why.
Now, to the unbelieving nothing is pure, not even the Bible.
Because they read something and interprets it in a way and use that to practice more evil.
Blessings!Titus 1:15-16 (15) Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. (16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. In the case of these verses, Letters, I believe it is more referring to a lifestyle, rather than considering this or that wrong ( though there are things that are right and wrong), which is a lifestyle of purity which produces purity, or a lifestyle of unbelief which produces an impure life. In verse 16, it says they profess that they know God, but in works deny him. So in works they deny God, yet by their lips some of them profess to know him, they may even say that they are servants of God, but by the fact that they will not surrender their lives to Jesus, shows that they are walking in their own self righteousness, or in wickedness, or unbelief, and unbelief all by itself, whether someone claims to profess this or that, will produce an impure life. See the impurity that it is referring to here specifically, is found in the life that they live, a life without God, a life of unbelief, a life that is defiled, a life that is in sin. But concerning the pure, they are in purity because they have received Christ's salvation, and always seek to walk more and more in him, which makes us pure, and if you walk in the love of God, well you will not be sinning, and purity will just flow naturally. So when we walk in the love of God, purity flows naturally, therefore all things are pure unto us, not because every single action that a person does is pure, but rather because of you walking in purity, therefore what you are doing is pure.
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Post by John on Apr 22, 2020 18:17:48 GMT -5
Hello everybody. There are certain activities youth and women do that are obviously sensual in nature like pole dancing or twerking. I am not advocating that Christian women do these things blindly. However, I'm noticing a pattern among some of the more conservative saints in that they restrict their daughters from almost every activity in order to maintain modesty. I know of an SDA lady who counseled another young girl to simply give up all athletic activities for the Lord since her swimsuit would be immodest. Here me out. There must be a safe way for youth and women to express their creativity and have a constructive outlet for the energy. I propose the answer is equipping them for ministry at an early age, including performing arts worship and worship services. I see that many denominations have pounced on this--- many Pentecostal musicians have began from an early age. But women specifically need a form of expression that is safe, Godly, and judgement free. Otherwise Satan is all too happy to get them into secular forms of dancing and entertainment. Let's be careful not to take all the activities away from girls to maintain modesty without providing a fun, Godly alternative. Dancing for the Lord is biblically promoted. There is no rule against praising the Lord, worshipping through song and instruments, writing praise music, and performing with modesty before the Lord. All dancing, or movement of female bodies cannot be sin. This is detrimental to the youth of our churches. They need encouragement, not total restriction. Encourage them in their gifts and talents so they can use them to serve the Lord. This is definitely an interesting topic, because it is the kind of thing that will get all kinds of opinions. Poll dancing and twerking are clearly designed by the devil to promote lustful thoughts. That was the intent. There is no way to clean that up, and while it would not necessarily be sinful if it is done in private, or where only one's spouse sees, there are just too many other ways to exercise to have the need for either.
When it comes to swimsuits, there are some that are more modest than others. I do not think someone has to go back and wear something like Granny did on The Beverly Hillbillies to be modest. A decent single piece swimsuit should be just fine. There are some that would not be tempted at all by that, and others who would be full of lust no matter what a person is wearing.
You mentioned equipping for performing arts and worship services. I can see good that can come out of equipping people to be the best they can at doing their ministry. Those people singing and playing instruments at the Indiana Bible College had to be taught, and I have seen people using those talents in church. I think that providing training in music, singing and worship leading, can be very valuable. I am not sure if that is what you had in mind, or something else?
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Apr 22, 2020 18:23:20 GMT -5
Hello everybody. There are certain activities youth and women do that are obviously sensual in nature like pole dancing or twerking. I am not advocating that Christian women do these things blindly. However, I'm noticing a pattern among some of the more conservative saints in that they restrict their daughters from almost every activity in order to maintain modesty. I know of an SDA lady who counseled another young girl to simply give up all athletic activities for the Lord since her swimsuit would be immodest. Here me out. There must be a safe way for youth and women to express their creativity and have a constructive outlet for the energy. I propose the answer is equipping them for ministry at an early age, including performing arts worship and worship services. I see that many denominations have pounced on this--- many Pentecostal musicians have began from an early age. But women specifically need a form of expression that is safe, Godly, and judgement free. Otherwise Satan is all too happy to get them into secular forms of dancing and entertainment. Let's be careful not to take all the activities away from girls to maintain modesty without providing a fun, Godly alternative. Dancing for the Lord is biblically promoted. There is no rule against praising the Lord, worshipping through song and instruments, writing praise music, and performing with modesty before the Lord. All dancing, or movement of female bodies cannot be sin. This is detrimental to the youth of our churches. They need encouragement, not total restriction. Encourage them in their gifts and talents so they can use them to serve the Lord. This is definitely an interesting topic, because it is the kind of thing that will get all kinds of opinions. Poll dancing and twerking are clearly designed by the devil to promote lustful thoughts. That was the intent. There is no way to clean that up, and while it would not necessarily be sinful if it is done in private, or where only one's spouse sees, there are just too many other ways to exercise to have the need for either.
When it comes to swimsuits, there are some that are more modest than others. I do not think someone has to go back and wear something like Granny did on The Beverly Hillbillies to be modest. A decent single piece swimsuit should be just fine. There are some that would not be tempted at all by that, and others who would be full of lust no matter what a person is wearing.
You mentioned equipping for performing arts and worship services. I can see good that can come out of equipping people to be the best they can at doing their ministry. Those people singing and playing instruments at the Indiana Bible College had to be taught, and I have seen people using those talents in church. I think that providing training in music, singing and worship leading, can be very valuable. I am not sure if that is what you had in mind, or something else?
That is exactly what I had in mind. In fact, imagine if IBC had a theater department. Amazing, right. There's so much you can do.
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Post by John on Apr 22, 2020 18:33:14 GMT -5
This is definitely an interesting topic, because it is the kind of thing that will get all kinds of opinions. Poll dancing and twerking are clearly designed by the devil to promote lustful thoughts. That was the intent. There is no way to clean that up, and while it would not necessarily be sinful if it is done in private, or where only one's spouse sees, there are just too many other ways to exercise to have the need for either.
When it comes to swimsuits, there are some that are more modest than others. I do not think someone has to go back and wear something like Granny did on The Beverly Hillbillies to be modest. A decent single piece swimsuit should be just fine. There are some that would not be tempted at all by that, and others who would be full of lust no matter what a person is wearing.
You mentioned equipping for performing arts and worship services. I can see good that can come out of equipping people to be the best they can at doing their ministry. Those people singing and playing instruments at the Indiana Bible College had to be taught, and I have seen people using those talents in church. I think that providing training in music, singing and worship leading, can be very valuable. I am not sure if that is what you had in mind, or something else?
That is exactly what I had in mind. In fact, imagine if IBC had a theater department. Amazing, right. There's so much you can do. They do concerts. I noticed when I was looking for their music on YouTube, some of them were actual concerts they had done, that generally ran for just over an hour. I definitely see how something like that would be worthwhile.
I was watching a video of a service at Heavenview Tabernacle, and the way they did their worship service, and I was amazed at how professional it was. Clearly they had to practice. Many churches take time to have choir practice and prepare for the service, but this was beyond what you normally see. It was so polished and well done, and brought glory to God. I never realized that there were schools that train people in music like that, and I would bet that they have people that learned how to lead in worship that way. It is hard to believe that just happened on its own. I learned something watching those videos.
Naturally, not everyone will be able to do that, and God wants us to do our best with the talents he gives us. I need to make that clear too, because some might be discouraged trying to compete. At the same time, I can see the good in it.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Apr 22, 2020 18:35:42 GMT -5
That is exactly what I had in mind. In fact, imagine if IBC had a theater department. Amazing, right. There's so much you can do. They do concerts. I noticed when I was looking for their music on YouTube, some of them were actual concerts they had done, that generally ran for just over an hour. I definitely see how something like that would be worthwhile.
I was watching a video of a service at Heavenview Tabernacle, and the way they did their worship service, and I was amazed at how professional it was. Clearly they had to practice. Many churches take time to have choir practice and prepare for the service, but this was beyond what you normally see. It was so polished and well done, and brought glory to God. I never realized that there were schools that train people in music like that, and I would bet that they have people that learned how to lead in worship that way. It is hard to believe that just happened on its own. I learned something watching those videos.
Naturally, not everyone will be able to do that, and God wants us to do our best with the talents he gives us. I need to make that clear too, because some might be discouraged trying to compete. At the same time, I can see the good in it.
That reminds me of the Soweto Gospel Choir. They are from South Africa but they perform all over the world. They have encouraged me with their music. You can feel their joy, despite language differences.
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Post by John on Apr 22, 2020 18:38:08 GMT -5
This is definitely an interesting topic, because it is the kind of thing that will get all kinds of opinions. Poll dancing and twerking are clearly designed by the devil to promote lustful thoughts. That was the intent. There is no way to clean that up, and while it would not necessarily be sinful if it is done in private, or where only one's spouse sees, there are just too many other ways to exercise to have the need for either.
When it comes to swimsuits, there are some that are more modest than others. I do not think someone has to go back and wear something like Granny did on The Beverly Hillbillies to be modest. A decent single piece swimsuit should be just fine. There are some that would not be tempted at all by that, and others who would be full of lust no matter what a person is wearing.
You mentioned equipping for performing arts and worship services. I can see good that can come out of equipping people to be the best they can at doing their ministry. Those people singing and playing instruments at the Indiana Bible College had to be taught, and I have seen people using those talents in church. I think that providing training in music, singing and worship leading, can be very valuable. I am not sure if that is what you had in mind, or something else?
That is exactly what I had in mind. In fact, imagine if IBC had a theater department. Amazing, right. There's so much you can do. Something else that crossed my mind in watching those men and women sing and play and worship God, was that many of them were every bit as talented as the wealthiest and most well known secular singers. The difference is that they chose to use their talents to glorify God, rather than to serve the devil and make a name for themselves. I was listening to one woman sing, and her voice sort of reminded me of Katy Perry, only perhaps a little better, but Katy, the daughter of a preacher, sold out for fortune and fame. Most likely, Katy Perry will spend eternity in the lake of fire because she took talents the Lord gave her to use for the world, where others with more talent will not have a name for themselves here, but will have eternal riches in glory.
One thing I want to add. I am not saying Katy Perry is hell bound just because she chooses to sing secular music. That is not a sin in itself, but she is living a very sinful lifestyle, and her lyrics are based on how she lives. I am not writing off every professional singer that is not 100 percent Christian.
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Post by John on Apr 22, 2020 18:44:38 GMT -5
They do concerts. I noticed when I was looking for their music on YouTube, some of them were actual concerts they had done, that generally ran for just over an hour. I definitely see how something like that would be worthwhile.
I was watching a video of a service at Heavenview Tabernacle, and the way they did their worship service, and I was amazed at how professional it was. Clearly they had to practice. Many churches take time to have choir practice and prepare for the service, but this was beyond what you normally see. It was so polished and well done, and brought glory to God. I never realized that there were schools that train people in music like that, and I would bet that they have people that learned how to lead in worship that way. It is hard to believe that just happened on its own. I learned something watching those videos.
Naturally, not everyone will be able to do that, and God wants us to do our best with the talents he gives us. I need to make that clear too, because some might be discouraged trying to compete. At the same time, I can see the good in it.
That reminds me of the Soweto Gospel Choir. They are from South Africa but they perform all over the world. They have encouraged me with their music. You can feel their joy, despite language differences. There was a video called, "Blessed To Be A Blessing," that I watched from Heavenview Tabernacle Church. The singers wound up taking over most of the service. But I was watching how they led in the worship service, and they were very much like the people at Indiana Bible College. I wonder if they take graduates of schools like that and make them their worship leaders and singers? I even wonder if they have paid positions like that in some of the big churches? I say that because it is so polished in how they do things. It never crossed my mind till I watched those videos of that College Choir and I realized that the school actually trains people to be worship leaders. I knew preachers went to Seminary, but I never thought about the worship team and musicians in churches before.
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Post by Giller on Apr 22, 2020 18:54:31 GMT -5
To me if a singer is polished he is polished, and if he is not , he is not, as long as he seeks to do all to the glory of God.
Worship is not at all about competition, but about a heart that is in tune with God, to were God gets the glory, the focus is to just simply glorify God.
Now I know many have opinions about competition, but one thing we should always look to for our opinions is the word of God, and just compare the word competition to the works of the flesh, and the fruit of the Spirit, and see which one it matches with, and look at the scripture that says to put on this or that, and see what God says, it is God's opinion that we should always seek.
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Post by Giller on Apr 22, 2020 20:27:33 GMT -5
One key verse to take heed to is this one:
1Ti 2:9 (9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
Here is the Greek definition of the word modest:
(Thayer's Greek definitions)
(G2887 κόσμιος kosmios
Thayer Definition:
1) well arranged, seemly, modest Part of Speech: adjective A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G2889 (in its primary sense))
Now modest apparel, can be nice looking apparel, and as John mentioned it does not have to be bathing suits that looks like old granny ones, but it must be decent, not provocative, not for the purpose of seeking the wrong kind of attention.
And then there is people who have to wear the most costly apparel and so on, just to show off.
Humbleness does not seek attention, seeks to be modest, and seeks to be an example to all.
Just think about what is pleasing in God's sight, and then we won't be the focus of attention, and then man made opinions just fall off, because man or ourselves are no longer the focus.
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Post by Giller on Apr 22, 2020 20:48:18 GMT -5
Now it is true that some men and even women will lust no matter what, but if one does their part that is all one can do, and I mean this for men also.
Luk 6:31 (31) And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
If you want people to rightly respect you, show a right type of respect also, if you do not want people to lust after you, be an example of not purposely provoking such things, and so on and so forth.
And concerning dresses, there is no law of how long the dress should be, such as it having to be down to the ground, so it is not about a specific length but at the same time you do have to be careful of the length, for if things are too short, it will be revealing, and mini skirts are not modest.
So our thoughts should not be of, this is my body and I will do what I want with it, it is not about this selfish attitude at all, but rather it is about being an example to all, but an example to were you become that example in reality, and not just doing things for a while so you do not offend.
The witness you want is this, to were people can look at you and say, hmmm there is something different about that person, they must be a Christian, but sadly to say, there are too many who are destroying the true Christian witness.
Sometimes in Christian circles they are so engulfed about men's opinions and wordliness that they forget that their whole lives belong to God, and not just part of their lives.
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Post by Giller on Apr 22, 2020 21:01:40 GMT -5
I think we need to get back to all the things that God talks about, how to respect one another, in modesty, and so on, but get into these things as a lifestyle, and not as an after thought.
I think in church circles there is very little respect towards these things.
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Post by John on Apr 23, 2020 4:57:23 GMT -5
To me if a singer is polished he is polished, and if he is not , he is not, as long as he seeks to do all to the glory of God. Worship is not at all about competition, but about a heart that is in tune with God, to were God gets the glory, the focus is to just simply glorify God. Now I know many have opinions about competition, but one thing we should always look to for our opinions is the word of God, and just compare the word competition to the works of the flesh, and the fruit of the Spirit, and see which one it matches with, and look at the scripture that says to put on this or that, and see what God says, it is God's opinion that we should always seek. I am not opposed to all competition, like in sports and things like that, but I was not even thinking about worship as a competition. I was thinking more about churches doing their best, rather than doing something half heartedly.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Apr 23, 2020 8:39:51 GMT -5
That is exactly what I had in mind. In fact, imagine if IBC had a theater department. Amazing, right. There's so much you can do. Something else that crossed my mind in watching those men and women sing and play and worship God, was that many of them were every bit as talented as the wealthiest and most well known secular singers. The difference is that they chose to use their talents to glorify God, rather than to serve the devil and make a name for themselves. I was listening to one woman sing, and her voice sort of reminded me of Katy Perry, only perhaps a little better, but Katy, the daughter of a preacher, sold out for fortune and fame. Most likely, Katy Perry will spend eternity in the lake of fire because she took talents the Lord gave her to use for the world, where others with more talent will not have a name for themselves here, but will have eternal riches in glory.
One thing I want to add. I am not saying Katy Perry is hell bound just because she chooses to sing secular music. That is not a sin in itself, but she is living a very sinful lifestyle, and her lyrics are based on how she lives. I am not writing off every professional singer that is not 100 percent Christian.
I agree. If we don't offer children a Godly outlet, the devil is all too happy to take them.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Apr 23, 2020 8:41:48 GMT -5
One key verse to take heed to is this one: 1Ti 2:9 (9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; Here is the Greek definition of the word modest: (Thayer's Greek definitions)
(G2887 κόσμιος kosmios
Thayer Definition:
1) well arranged, seemly, modest Part of Speech: adjective A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G2889 (in its primary sense))
Now modest apparel, can be nice looking apparel, and as John mentioned it does not have to be bathing suits that looks like old granny ones, but it must be decent, not provocative, not for the purpose of seeking the wrong kind of attention. And then there is people who have to wear the most costly apparel and so on, just to show off. Humbleness does not seek attention, seeks to be modest, and seeks to be an example to all. Just think about what is pleasing in God's sight, and then we won't be the focus of attention, and then man made opinions just fall off, because man or ourselves are no longer the focus. I think the key is balance. I know some women that purposely try to look unattractive because of modesty misdirection. What modesty cannot be is sin prevention. Otherwise women can never leave the house.
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