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Post by watchful on Apr 13, 2021 14:05:32 GMT -5
We serve in the new way of the Spirit now....no longer under a checklist of do's and don'ts through the carnal mind and flesh, but the law serves as instruction through the washing of the water of the word that transforms us....it's instruction for our heart/spirit.
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Post by Giller on Apr 13, 2021 22:11:06 GMT -5
There is no doubt that we serve him in the newness of the spirit as this scripture says:
Rom 7:6 (6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Now it is by what Christ did at the cross that we have been delivered from the law, or delivered from the curse of the law, which leads to death (spiritual death).
But even though the law itself does not save you, it does not mean you do not need it, for the new testament also says this:
Rom 13:8-9 (8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. (9) For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
In these verses alone you see do's and don'ts, and this in the new testament, one do, is to love your neighbor as yourself, which fulfills the law, and one don't is to not commit adultery.
There are do's and don'ts under the new covenant, and let us not eliminate the fact that this is part of the new testament.
Now if we are loving God with all our hearts, minds and souls, you will not be committing adultery and so on, but nevertheless, we still need the moral law to show us right from wrong, and for conviction, and none of us have attained, we all get into pride at times, and so on, but let us go forward, forsaking those things which we out to, and embracing the things which we out.
I am not interested in saying there are no do's and don'ts under the New covenant, when the bible does not say this.
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Post by Giller on Apr 13, 2021 22:14:48 GMT -5
Let us be careful not to add or take away from his word.
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Post by Giller on Apr 13, 2021 22:18:46 GMT -5
Under the New covenant, it is a complete transformation, to were Christ is actually living through us, as we allow him to do so, it is Christ in us the hope of glory.
It is the living word, living in us and through us, and we are always in a process of being sanctified, as we go from faith to faith, grace to grace.
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Post by watchful on Apr 14, 2021 6:16:49 GMT -5
Well, lets mull this over a bit. Make sure nobody is misunderstanding what is being said....checklist approach IS the old way of the letter. Is the Law even a complete checklist? Do even the words and commands of Jesus make a complete checklist? No they don't. Pharisees ticked off the checklist and felt justified committing all kinds of things that aren't explicitly addressed in the Law....they would (and pharisees of today still do) take advantage of all kinds of 'loopholes' in the written Law, deceiving themselves.
The Law gives basic foundational instruction so we would catch on to what righteousness is all about, that we would get the picture so to speak...it is instruction and reminders for our hearts, by faith, now that we have the Spirit, pointing us in the right overall direction....washing our hearts, renewing our minds....cleansing and transforming us because the entrance of the word by the Spirit into our hearts gives light, dispelling darkness. It's love that fulfills the Law and always has been. We can check off all the boxes but still not be fulfilling the Law. We can do all kinds of good things but if we have not love we are nothing. Checklist approach only whitewashes the outside of the cup.
And worse, the strength of sin is the law....so taking that approach can make a problem worse...it's a ministration of death not life.
It's not by our might and our power (self effort, self righteousness) but by His Spirit, says the Lord.
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Post by Giller on Apr 14, 2021 9:18:05 GMT -5
Oh we do not look to the law in order to get righteous, and make a type of checklist to were we say, oh I got this one covered and so forth, in that way no, because that would first of all, be pride which is sin, and second of all, it would not be faith, simply because your not looking to Christ as your righteousness, you are looking to your performance as your righteousness.
And yes the pharisees added all kinds of laws to God's law, and we are no longer under the ceremonial laws of the Old testament, but we do still need the moral law.
And in truth, it has always been justification by faith:
Gal 3:6 (6) Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
No we no longer serve God in the oldness of the letter, such as we no longer do animal sacrifices, or keep the ceremonial laws of the old testament, and so forth, it is strictly a covenant of the heart, but which does have does and dont's, why do I say this? Because there are do's and dont's under the New covenant.
The moral law still applies.
1Sa 12:24 (24) Only fear the LORD, and serve him in truth with all your heart: for consider how great things he hath done for you.
God did look at the heart under the Old covenant, and there are many verses that show this, but the difference under the New, is that we now have Christ living in us, and through us, and he gave us a new heart at the born again experience, we are now able to walk in the perfect love of God, for it is available to us, although none of us have attained to it, it is still there available for us, and now we have been totally cleansed of our sins.
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Post by frienduff on Apr 14, 2021 13:46:28 GMT -5
There is no doubt that we serve him in the newness of the spirit as this scripture says: Rom 7:6 (6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Now it is by what Christ did at the cross that we have been delivered from the law, or delivered from the curse of the law, which leads to death (spiritual death). But even though the law itself does not save you, it does not mean you do not need it, for the new testament also says this: Rom 13:8-9 (8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. (9) For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. In these verses alone you see do's and don'ts, and this in the new testament, one do, is to love your neighbor as yourself, which fulfills the law, and one don't is to not commit adultery. There are do's and don'ts under the new covenant, and let us not eliminate the fact that this is part of the new testament. Now if we are loving God with all our hearts, minds and souls, you will not be committing adultery and so on, but nevertheless, we still need the moral law to show us right from wrong, and for conviction, and none of us have attained, we all get into pride at times, and so on, but let us go forward, forsaking those things which we out to, and embracing the things which we out. I am not interested in saying there are no do's and don'ts under the New covenant, when the bible does not say this. I for sure understand what you are saying my dear friend . For often i have seen folks say to those who would remind of do and dont , they call them legalistic . JESUS said many do and do nots . so did the apostles . OH i hear you my friend . Its really simple . I mean it truly is . May we always remind of do an do not . SO long as we understand the law dont save us , which i know you understand that . WE have many souls that at the first sight of do an do not they holler , LEGALISM . But why . Now ponder this real deep . FOR the answer is , they are still loving some sin and to hear , HEY cease that , does indeed disturb them . Legalism was invented by those who loved sin . They need to feel free , feel saved , thus they create or heed those who have created a jesus a god a love a freedom , by which they can FEEL saved , and yet still serve what it is they desire . SIN . They have left off , or never knew , the true JESUS . You would , or might not , be amazed at how many folks i hear say , THEY LOVE JESUS and bark orders at those who correct . BUT IF WE REALLY LOVE JESUS . HOW CAN WE LOVE SELF , SIN . JESUS did not come to earth to destroy the law and allow us to do as we please . I DID as i pleased once , i loved sin and yet could still say i love CHRIST . BUT little did i know , back then , that how can i love sin and love Christ as well . OH its a lie all right . I was big time decieved . FOR IF i HAD TRULY LOVED JESUS , WHO IS THE TRUTH , THE WAY and THE LIFE , WHY WAS I LOVING my sin . ANY MAN , WOMAN , CHILD , DONKEY, TREE , ANGEL peroid that allows us to invent another JESUS , another gospel , IS A LIE . HOW can we love GOD , HOW can we love CHRIST if we love not and embrace not TRUTH . AND SIN is not truth , its evil . GOD has not changed HIS MIND about sin. EITHER we serve HIM or sin .
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Post by watchful on Apr 14, 2021 15:13:15 GMT -5
Think I'll just leave it there then brothers, my words are being horribly twisted and not being understood. There's no point in arguing. Bless you.
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Post by watchful on Apr 14, 2021 16:14:16 GMT -5
It occurred to me that it's possible some are under a misapprehension about me which is colouring how you read the things that I say. An astonishing word was given to me a while back, about "women's club, Jew club, flesh and sex, flesh and sex." I didn't say anything at the time, I was shocked by it and needed time to process, and then as there was no appropriate opportunity to revisit it, I eventually just forgot about it.....but I think it needs to be known that that word did not and does not reflect or speak to me and my life at all, as God is my witness.
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Post by frienduff on Apr 14, 2021 18:28:08 GMT -5
Think I'll just leave it there then brothers, my words are being horribly twisted and not being understood. There's no point in arguing. Bless you. Sister , what i said had nothing to do with you .
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Post by Giller on Apr 15, 2021 9:28:29 GMT -5
Think I'll just leave it there then brothers, my words are being horribly twisted and not being understood. There's no point in arguing. Bless you. Of course a checklist does not save us, it is Christ that saves us, but in surrendering our lives to Jesus, we then start to be conformed to his image, and in faith there are actions, now the actions themselves are not what saves, but if your faith is real, it will have actions,, and to love there are actions, as this scripture says: Joh 14:15 (15) If ye love me, keep my commandments. If there are no actions, then is the faith even real? And we obey knowing we have been redeemed, for that is what the redeemed do, they obey what God says to do, and reject what God rejects. So when I hear things about no do's and dont's I get concerned, and many in the once saved always saved movement, will say you are saved no matter what, no matter what you do, and I know you do not say that Watchful, just I get concerned about the issue of do's and dont's, for the New Testament as all kinds of do's and dont's. God love you.
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ohhello
Senior Member
Global Moderator
Let us rejoice in the Lord Jesus!
Posts: 6,304
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Post by ohhello on Apr 15, 2021 10:07:07 GMT -5
Let us all just praise the glorious biblical Lord Jesus and keep reading those bibles. All truth is in those bibles. Let us keep it simple, as the scriptures tell us to.
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” Romans 10:9-10
You are all dearly loved and prayed for.
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Post by frienduff on Apr 15, 2021 11:07:20 GMT -5
How often did paul say do this and do not do that . Quite often . If they left us with lots of do and donts , let us not omit that either . For it is indeed the Spirit at work that did all those reminders through the early church . just as it would amongst us today . Realizing that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ . We must often encourage and provoke one another to do good and to flee evil .
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Post by watchful on Apr 15, 2021 13:12:16 GMT -5
Think I'll just leave it there then brothers, my words are being horribly twisted and not being understood. There's no point in arguing. Bless you. Of course a checklist does not save us, it is Christ that saves us, but in surrendering our lives to Jesus, we then start to be conformed to his image, and in faith there are actions, now the actions themselves are not what saves, but if your faith is real, it will have actions,, and to love there are actions, as this scripture says: Joh 14:15 (15) If ye love me, keep my commandments. If there are no actions, then is the faith even real? And we obey knowing we have been redeemed, for that is what the redeemed do, they obey what God says to do, and reject what God rejects. So when I hear things about no do's and dont's I get concerned, and many in the once saved always saved movement, will say you are saved no matter what, no matter what you do, and I know you do not say that Watchful, just I get concerned about the issue of do's and dont's, for the New Testament as all kinds of do's and dont's. God love you. I'm just trying to express the difference between serving in the old way of letter as opposed to the new way of the spirit brother. Hard to put into words . It's a matter of how we are approaching it ...whether we're still under the governance of rules & regulations and self-effort, or if we've come to the end of that, being governed by the Holy Spirit who quickens us to obey the Lord as living sacrifices. Certainly not denying all the many teachings in scripture that we need to have upon our hearts, to heed them, not at all, heaven forbid.
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Post by Giller on Apr 15, 2021 23:04:44 GMT -5
Shadow of things to come
Col 2:14-16 (14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. (16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Now I have heard some say that the handwritten ordinances refers to commandments that had nothing to do with God's old testament ordinances, but if you read verse 16 carefully, it goes along with verse 14, for verse 16 starts with the words, let no man therefore judge you.
The word "therefore" refers to something that was mentioned before hand.
What was mentioned before hand? Handwritten ordinances that were blotted out.
So 2 things in the list of verse 16, that are mentioned, are holydays and sabbath days.
And in the old testament, there were many sabbaths, including the 7th day of the week sabbath, but not all holy days were sabbaths, hence the word holydays was mentioned, so to cover all of God's holy days, whether a sabbath or not.
So you cannot judge people on the observance of a meat ordinance such as clean and unclean meats, nor can you judge a person on the observance of a drink ordinance such as the Nazarite vow, nor concerning all the days that they had observed holy days under the old covenant.
So we can conclude that those handwritten ordinances, under old covenant times, are no longer binding to observe, for they have been blotted out, for the one who fulfilled the law was here, our Passover Lamb was here and so on.
And more proof that these handwritten ordinances were referring to God's old testament ordinances, is found in our next scripture:
Col 2:17 (17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
What are a shadow of things to come? Well the sabbath days, holy days, and so on, are a shadow of things to come, and it is obvious that it is not referring to man made ordinances that are a shadow of things to come, for they are not, but God's feast days sure are.
And I do not know all the meanings behind every ordinance, but many of the ordinances, pointed to a few things, such as the feast of tabernacles, points to God tabernacling with men, which Christ came to tabernacle with men at his first coming, and will also do so at the second coming.
God is good.
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