PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 5, 2018 11:15:29 GMT -5
It you speak against Jesus aren’t you making God a liar? What is the difference?
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Dec 5, 2018 11:20:18 GMT -5
Apparently people can speak against Jesus and still be forgiven... People who speak against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven because they are making God a liar.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, it is God's Spirit.
That is why God cannot forgive those who speak against His Holy Spirit (truth).
That is what I believe.what do you believe concerning Jesus being called The Word of God and Him saying He is the way the truth and the life?
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Post by 2fw8212a on Dec 5, 2018 11:21:21 GMT -5
It you speak against Jesus aren’t you making God a liar? What is the difference? The difference is that the Holy Spirit will come to you with the truth telling you that you were mistaken and the truth is:
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life... You need to repent!
If they cannot receive this truth they cannot be forgiven. "...for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." - John 8:24
It is not a matter of trusting in other's revelations.
Truth is truth, and if a revelation is true it will always be confirmed by the Holy Spirit."But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth." - James 3:14
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 5, 2018 11:25:24 GMT -5
It you speak against Jesus aren’t you making God a liar? What is the difference? The difference is that the Holy Spirit will come to you with the truth telling you that you were mistaken and the truth is:
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life... You need to repent!
If they cannot receive this truth they cannot be forgiven. "...for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." - John 8:24
It is not a matter of trusting in other's revelations.
Truth is truth, and if a revelation is true it will always be confirmed by the Holy Spirit."But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth." - James 3:14Jesus doesn’t come to unbelievers to tell them to repent? He appeared to Paul. Who says it must be the Holy Spirit and not Jesus who approaches us? Where does the Bible say it is the Holy Spirit and not Jesus who comes to unbelievers?
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 5, 2018 11:26:49 GMT -5
It you speak against Jesus aren’t you making God a liar? What is the difference? The difference is that the Holy Spirit will come to you with the truth telling you that you were mistaken and the truth is:
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life... You need to repent!
If they cannot receive this truth they cannot be forgiven. "...for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." - John 8:24
It is not a matter of trusting in other's revelations.
Truth is truth, and if a revelation is true it will always be confirmed by the Holy Spirit."But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth." - James 3:14Wait... if a revelation is true it will be confirmed by another revelation from the Spirit? Then what do we need the Bible for?
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Post by 2fw8212a on Dec 5, 2018 11:27:02 GMT -5
what do you believe concerning Jesus being called The Word of God and Him saying He is the way the truth and the life? All words God says are true. There is no chance of God lying, God cannot lie.
And Jesus is the Son of God, and He and the Father is one.
Then Jesus cannot lie as well, consequently all that Jesus says is always true.
"I and My Father are one." - John 10:30
"And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me." - John 12:45
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." - John 6:38
"...the Father who dwells in Me does the works." - John 14:10
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Post by 2fw8212a on Dec 5, 2018 11:29:42 GMT -5
Jesus doesn’t come to unbelievers to tell them to repent? He appeared to Paul. Who says it must be the Holy Spirit and not Jesus who approaches us? Where does the Bible say it is the Holy Spirit and not Jesus who comes to unbelievers? All Jesus said was from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was speaking through Him.
"...The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works." - John 14:10
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Post by 2fw8212a on Dec 5, 2018 11:32:28 GMT -5
Wait... if a revelation is true it will be confirmed by another revelation from the Spirit? Then what do we need the Bible for? It is confirmed by the Spirit Himself in each one. The Spirit reveals and opens their understanding.
And they all receive and agree the same, by faith.
There are mysteries and knowledge in Scripture that the carnal mind cannot receive or comprehend and goes beyond the scope of printed letters and human logic.
"But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God." - 1 Corinthians 2:10
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Post by frienduff on Dec 6, 2018 10:56:19 GMT -5
This was mentioned in the OP, but I feel it needs to be brought up again, because of the false teaching that the unpardonable sin is nothing more than unbelief. Notice what Jesus said in Matthew 12:32...
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Let's forget about the word blasphemy for a moment, and look at what Jesus says here. He warns us against speaking against the Holy Ghost. This should once and for all put away any controversy over what this sin is. The context points us in the right direction, but this verse makes it crystal clear. To speak against the works of the Holy Spirit, and attribute them to the devil, is to commit the unpardonable sin. This will help you greatly butero . When the OSAS crowd tells you that unbelief is what gets a person cast into the lake of fire . YOU NEED to AGREE with that , then come and offer this. But also remind them that IF unbelief was the unpardonable sin , THEN NONE COULD BE SAVED , BECAUSE WE WERE ALL ONCE UNBELIEVERS . Now , they will say , IF they reject the Holy Ghost when it convicts that is the sin . You need to acknowledge this is SIN . And if a man does this and wont repent , THEN HELL FIRE FOR HIM. THEN go back to mark chapter three . And show them . now the response you will get , is more than likely what I have heard in person them tell me . One said , BUT JESUS IS NOT LONGER walking amongst us casting out demons and such , SO THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE ANYMORE . TO which you simply say , JESUS told us if they reject you , they reject me , WHO is the one who gives a man the POWER to cast out demons , THE SPIRIT . THUS if they are blashpheming the work of the SPIRIT , THEY ARE BLASPHEMING THE SPIRIT . NO man can cast out demons and etc , UNLESS ITS BY THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT . NO MAN . IT cant and wont happen , the jews of sceva tried that number, having no faith in Christ and THUS NO SPIRIT in them . AND that demon leaped all over those men . them seven sons came in as one , but fled out seven different ways , howling and crying .
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Post by Giller on Dec 6, 2018 11:03:46 GMT -5
Mar 3:22-30 (22) And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. (23) And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? (24) And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. (25) And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. (26) And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. (27) No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. (28) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: (29) But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: (30) Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
The works of the Holy Ghost cannot be spoken against, but another good scripture to compare with this one, would be this next one:
Heb 6:4-6 (4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
We know that at times there have been Christians who have fallen away, yet came back to Christ, and I do not believe in this case it is just referring to any type of falling away here.
But one who tasted the heavenly gift, was partaker of the Holy Ghost, they knew these things, and yet fell away.
Could this type of falling away be referring to knowingly committing the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, while having experience the things of God, for it says that in this case that it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance, yet we know that falling away in a general fashion, there is hope to renew them unto repentance.
For all manners of sin may be forgiven, except the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.
There is hope for the backslider.
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Post by frienduff on Dec 6, 2018 11:04:41 GMT -5
Wait... if a revelation is true it will be confirmed by another revelation from the Spirit? Then what do we need the Bible for? It is confirmed by the Spirit Himself in each one. The Spirit reveals and opens their understanding.
And they all receive and agree the same, by faith.
There are mysteries and knowledge in Scripture that the carnal mind cannot receive or comprehend and goes beyond the scope of printed letters and human logic.
"But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God." - 1 Corinthians 2:10SO HOW does a man truly KNOW what SPIRIT HE is hearing from . IF any SPIRIT , if any man , if any thought pops into the mind And in contradicts what is written . REST ASSURED ITS NOT FROM GOD . I say again REST assured its not FROM GOD . Their is a reason why paul says , THE HOLY SCRIPTURES MAKE one WISE unto salvation through our FAITH in CHRIST . For go to and behold , we see many saying theLORD revealed , the LORD revealed . BUT DID HE . FOR IF it contradicts what is written , its NOT FROM GOD , but simply from the heart of the man who says THUS sayeth the LORD , WHEN the LORD said it NOT WE must more than ever DIG SO DEEP in that bible . OH let those pages , coupled with the SPIRIT refresh us all. Letters , be careful , be on heavy guard what you READ . My advice , PUT down all other reads , and READ ONLY the bible . For many men can twist things very crafitily . and very craftily they do . Let us get well , well learned in that bible . And no matter how well learned we are LET us stay ONLY in the bible being refreshed by those words ,those letters every day STILL . You loved letters .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 6, 2018 11:24:03 GMT -5
We can’t exactly say that the Pharisees involved were people who tasted the Holy Ghost and then knowingly attacked Him. Jesus never implied these people had once been in communion with God. There was no evidence of them prophesying beforehand. That doesn’t mean a believer can’t make a mistake, but it wasn’t the case with those guys. Jesus didn’t put any qualifiers in His words about whether or not belief/unbelief makes any difference.
I’ve known of stories where wicked people attacked a move of the Spirit or outright threatened a minister on an anointed mission, and they were struck for it on the spot. I do know for certain that this is not limited to backslid believers.
As for knowing which spirit brings a revelation, that’s a very serious subject. We truly can’t rely on how popular a doctrine is, or how many people get the same “revelation” or how much sense it seems to make to us. Spiritual truth is not confirmed by popularity contests. There needs to be confirmation from a tangible source, such as clear evidence in God’s word, or obvious good fruit that grows from it, or a prophetic word that confirms it from someone else who doesn’t know about it. Some kind of independent, objective confirmation need to happen. Three or four people claiming the exact same “revelation” against clear evidence otherwise is not enough.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Dec 6, 2018 14:04:33 GMT -5
SO HOW does a man truly KNOW what SPIRIT HE is hearing from . IF any SPIRIT , if any man , if any thought pops into the mind And in contradicts what is written . REST ASSURED ITS NOT FROM GOD . I say again REST assured its not FROM GOD . Their is a reason why paul says , THE HOLY SCRIPTURES MAKE one WISE unto salvation through our FAITH in CHRIST . For go to and behold , we see many saying theLORD revealed , the LORD revealed . BUT DID HE . FOR IF it contradicts what is written , its NOT FROM GOD , but simply from the heart of the man who says THUS sayeth the LORD , WHEN the LORD said it NOT WE must more than ever DIG SO DEEP in that bible . OH let those pages , coupled with the SPIRIT refresh us all. Letters , be careful , be on heavy guard what you READ . My advice , PUT down all other reads , and READ ONLY the bible . For many men can twist things very crafitily . and very craftily they do . Let us get well , well learned in that bible . And no matter how well learned we are LET us stay ONLY in the bible being refreshed by those words ,those letters every day STILL . You loved letters .
frienduff PG4Him There are things only the Holy Spirit of God can do.
Only God can reveal you a thing in such a way that you have no doubt it is true (as absolute truth comes only from God).
Revelation from the Spirit of God always come with confirmation (faith). And you can still check by the fruits.
Just as the people couldn't understand what was written about Jesus in Scriptures without Him revealing to them.
"And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures." - Luke 24:45
That is the reason why many pharisees and some who study the Bible for years by following the letter (and trust in their intellect) are unable to find truth.
Because they are trying to find the truth by themselves, and by themselves they will never find it. Only God can reveal the truth to them, so they can know it.
"And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." - John 14:21
"that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him..." - Ephesians 1:17
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Post by Giller on Dec 6, 2018 14:10:39 GMT -5
Mar 3:22-30 (22) And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. (23) And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? (24) And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. (25) And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. (26) And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. (27) No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. (28) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: (29) But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: (30) Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
To me it seems that Christ was warning them here, and the act of claiming a work to be of the devil, that is done by the Holy Ghost, does fit into what the blasphemy is.
But did the scribes here actually commit the blasphemy?
Or were they being warned about it?
Was Christ opening up their eyes to what they were doing?
And then their is the Hebrews verses to consider.
Heb 6:4-6 (4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
And in the Mark verse it says they were in danger of eternal damnation.
All things to consider, and the bible does say to compare the word with the word.
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Post by frienduff on Dec 6, 2018 15:14:57 GMT -5
That is the reason why many pharisees and some who study the Bible for years by following the letter (and trust in their intellect) are unable to find truth.
Because they are trying to find the truth by themselves, and by themselves they will never find it. Only God can reveal the truth to them, so they can know it.
Here my dear friend letters , lets shorten this just a bit , but make the point VERY CLEAR .
The reason why many Pharisees and some who study the bible for years and yet unable to find truth . CAUSE THEY DONT KNOW JESUS and THEY NEVER CAME TO HIM . But anyone else who does , IS GONNA KNOW TRUTH , THEY WILL learn of HIM and they will grow .
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