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Post by frienduff on Sept 24, 2018 15:33:29 GMT -5
cant hug a snake forever and expect not to get BIT . NO, you gotta spiritually DEFANG that snake , have it REPENT of those wicked fangs OR IT WILL TURN ON YOU . and guess what , the gay agenda IS already turning on some . THEY kicking folks out of churches now that wont support it . BUT no worries , GOD has his own . JUST separating the clean from the unclean . REJIOCE when you are persecuted and kicked out of even churches FOR STAYING LOYAL TO JESUS .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 24, 2018 15:35:50 GMT -5
The Bible gives us three basic requirements for salvation: a heart pierced with genuine sorrow, a mind lit up with faithful knowledge of Jesus, and a verbal confession that Jesus is Lord.
Observe Acts 2:
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Also this from Romans 10:
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
People who are sorry for their past will say they're sorry. People who want to change will say they want to change. People who see Jesus as Savior will call Him Savior. People who see him as Lord will call Him Lord. These are all very simple statements; no rocket science. They should come bubbling out of a person who believes them. This is the biggest issue with scripted prayers. If you're coaching a person on how to apologize, they're not really sorry.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 24, 2018 15:40:32 GMT -5
I do agree with that as well sister Candace . I DONT THINK rick warren or the pope will approve nor all under the all inclusive sway . But they men sowing to the wind , and have no idea they reap what they sow , A WHIRLWIND is on the way sister . But first the saints will suffer world wide and massive too .
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Post by frienduff on Sept 24, 2018 15:42:09 GMT -5
HOW long can churches stay lukewarm , BEFORE THE CALL IS HEARD , I COUNSLE THEE TO BUY OF ME GOLD TRIED IN THE FIRE . A MASSIVE PERSECUTION shall arise , but I just say remind BE ZEALOUS and REPENT .
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Post by Giller on Sept 25, 2018 0:04:42 GMT -5
I truly find that the dangers of the repeat after me sinner's prayer, is that it can cause people to have faith in the sinner's prayer to be saved, rather than have faith in God. not trying to disagree that it does not however, I am asking for something actually in the bible where it states its unscriptural.
what you are saying here is still, in a sense, backing up what I said originally, which is the prayer is fine, but its the approach, the application, or rather the lack of application of preaching/teaching the gospel.
If we spend the time with someone and explain the gospel, explain the need for a savior, explain it is by grace thru faith, the prayer is not hindered.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
Rom 10:9-10 (9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Of course a sinner coming to Christ must confess or pray to God, to receive him as their Lord and Savior and repent of their sins. That is scriptural, but this method of repeat after me a sinner's prayer, is not scriptural, for there is no examples of this being done in the bible. And if God would have wanted things to be done this way, don't you think he would have shown us something or an example of it? To prove something is scriptural you must show that it is in the bible. People are inventing methods, and then Christians just follow those methods, rather than what God says, which is to plant a seed, one waters but he brings the increase. There are too many methods in the body of Christ and not enough of being led by the Spirit. Gal 5:18 (18) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. This method of repeat after me has become ritualistic, it really has, I just pray that people see it. We really need to depend upon the Spirit, we really do need the power of God, God love ya's, amen.
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Post by John on Sept 25, 2018 7:49:15 GMT -5
I don't think scripted is the problem, so much as not explaining to the person that they must actually understand and mean what they are saying. Jesus taught us a scripted prayer.
AND it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed by thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. Luke 11:1-4
That is a scripted prayer. In another account, Jesus says to pray a prayer in like manner, not word for word, but we are still talking about what amounts to a scripted prayer. If I pray this prayer without giving it any thought, it will do me little good. If I actually consider what I am saying, and mean it, it does me a world of good. In all honesty, I have done it both ways with regard to the Lord's prayer. I will pray it every day, and some days I put more thought into what I am actually saying. It can become ritualistic or it can be meaningful. The same thing applies to a sinner's prayer. The minister can not assume the person means what they are saying. That person might think they are magic words that make him saved, and that is not going to work. The purpose is you are leading them into a prayer of sincere repentance and turning their life over to Christ.
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Post by Sister on Sept 25, 2018 7:51:31 GMT -5
I normally just advise people that when they get a quiet moment to go into their room, kneel down and ask the Lord for forgiveness, and ask for him to guide them into his kingdom and deliver them from evil. I always make a big point of telling them that they have to pray in Jesus name. I then tell them that they need a bible so that they can learn the difference between good and evil, as most people don't know what to confess until they start reading and the spirit convicts them. Normally by this point, we have discussed a few things already, and we could stand there all day and tell them what every sin is, but if they are genuine, they will seek for themselves and the Lord will show them. This is a journey, a labour of love. There also should be lots of curiosity in what the Lord has to say. We are not instantly made righteous, but given a chance to learn what righteousness is and space to repent. If they are eager to find out what God's will is, they will get stuck straight into the scriptures and feed, feed, feed.
It has to come from the heart because the person wants it, and not from pressure. If God wants them, he will draw them to Christ. All we can do is plant the seed, and see where it goes from there. It has to be a conscientious decision of that individual. They may just seek first before making that decision, and see if their spirit is drawn to Christ's teachings, and often, that seed doesn't take root straight away, but somewhere down the line.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 25, 2018 8:20:08 GMT -5
I don't think scripted is the problem, so much as not explaining to the person that they must actually understand and mean what they are saying. Jesus taught us a scripted prayer.
AND it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed by thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. Luke 11:1-4
That is a scripted prayer. In another account, Jesus says to pray a prayer in like manner, not word for word, but we are still talking about what amounts to a scripted prayer. If I pray this prayer without giving it any thought, it will do me little good. If I actually consider what I am saying, and mean it, it does me a world of good. In all honesty, I have done it both ways with regard to the Lord's prayer. I will pray it every day, and some days I put more thought into what I am actually saying. It can become ritualistic or it can be meaningful. The same thing applies to a sinner's prayer. The minister can not assume the person means what they are saying. That person might think they are magic words that make him saved, and that is not going to work. The purpose is you are leading them into a prayer of sincere repentance and turning their life over to Christ.
You always make me think!
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Post by Giller on Sept 25, 2018 9:31:22 GMT -5
I don't think scripted is the problem, so much as not explaining to the person that they must actually understand and mean what they are saying. Jesus taught us a scripted prayer.
AND it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed by thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. Luke 11:1-4
That is a scripted prayer. In another account, Jesus says to pray a prayer in like manner, not word for word, but we are still talking about what amounts to a scripted prayer. If I pray this prayer without giving it any thought, it will do me little good. If I actually consider what I am saying, and mean it, it does me a world of good. In all honesty, I have done it both ways with regard to the Lord's prayer. I will pray it every day, and some days I put more thought into what I am actually saying. It can become ritualistic or it can be meaningful. The same thing applies to a sinner's prayer. The minister can not assume the person means what they are saying. That person might think they are magic words that make him saved, and that is not going to work. The purpose is you are leading them into a prayer of sincere repentance and turning their life over to Christ.
I understand were you are coming from, but as you also mention, Jesus said to pray in like manner, it was an example of how to pray. Concerning healing, and getting saved, bible wise, Jesus always prompted or stirred faith in them, and gave them instruction, and they had to decide for themselves whether to obey Christ or not, or to confess or not. Can you pray the Lord's prayer? Of course you can, but remember this verse: Gal 5:18 (18) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Jesus never set up a format for people to repeat after him, but just stirred up faith in them. It the Holy Spirit that stirs up our hearts in what we will pray, and if he leads us to pray the Lord's prayer than great, but it should never be prayed in a ritualistic way, it is a word that must become alive in us. In fact the bible gives us all kinds of instructions concerning prayer, and to do so in Jesus' name, and what to confess, but it has to come out in a way to were it is real, it has got to be a real cry, like the thief on the cross, or like the Eunuch. It cannot be vain repetitions like the Pharisees, it must be real, there must be given thought to it. So it is not repeat after me, but rather it is praying what the Lord stirs up in your heart, then it is the leading of the Spirit, we cannot be the Holy Spirit, we can plant seeds, water the seed, but we cannot be the Holy Spirit, and create a format that does not exists in the bible. The Lord's prayer in a certain manner may be scripted, but remember Jesus said to do in like manner, it was an example prayer. The Holy Spirit must be the one that leads, and not us, or our man made formats. I know it is hard to let go of the traditions of men. But anyhow praise God for whosoever has gotten saved, God is good.
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Post by John on Sept 25, 2018 9:43:09 GMT -5
Any prayer, original or not, must come from a sincere heart to be of any profit.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 25, 2018 9:47:01 GMT -5
The Jews recited Sh'ma Israel daily. They relied on memorization of much of the OT for prayers, blessings, commandments, etc. How can we say that men like David and Isaiah were not led by the Spirit when they wrote Messianic prophecy? Not all of the Jews were cut off from the Spirit. David certainly recited the Sh'ma once or twice in his life.
The whole reason they asked Jesus to teach them how to pray was precisely because rabbis taught people how to pray.
Does being led by the Spirit mean all templates are bad? That might be dipping into another form of legalism.
Hmm I might have to rethink this.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Sept 25, 2018 10:10:40 GMT -5
And here is an example of the thief on the cross: Luk 23:39-43 (39) And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. (40) But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? (41) And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. (42) And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. (43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. About the repentant criminal on the cross:
"...and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left." - Luke 23:33
"Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”" - Luke 23:42
"And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”" - Luke 23:43
On what side was the criminal who said "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom" ?
Answer:
"The Lord takes pleasure in those who fear Him, In those who hope in His mercy." - Psalm 147:11
"As a father pities his children, So the Lord pities those who fear Him." - Psalm 103:13
"Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world..." - Matthew 25:34
"He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy." - Proverbs 28:13
Right side.
Blessings to you all in Jesus' name!
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Post by frienduff on Sept 25, 2018 10:40:10 GMT -5
That is right letters . PRAISE the LORD everyone . PRAISE THE LORD .
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Post by Giller on Sept 25, 2018 12:15:05 GMT -5
Of course we are under a new covenant now.
And God always gives an example of something if it is this or that.
Sure we should mention scripture when praying, with the leading of the Spirit.
The Holy Spirit completely indwells us now.
I do not know too much about this Sh'ma recitation, I know some things come from the old testament and others do not.
Whatever God told them to do under the old covenant, that is what they should have done.
And even Lord's prayer wise, it was not repeat after me, but rather an example prayer, and if in your prayer you are lead of the Spirit to recite it, from a true heart, then praise God.
But salvation wise from Acts and on wards, the examples was not a formula of repeating after someone in prayer, it is just not there, so if it is not there, it just ain't.
And I would rather go on the side of caution, rather than lean on something I was raised on, and have no caution at all.
And remember that we are under a New covenant.
It is all in the leading of Spirit, and that is not legalism.
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Post by Giller on Sept 25, 2018 12:18:12 GMT -5
It has to be Spirit breath, it has to be made alive by the Spirit, it has to be Spirit lead, otherwise it is just a law.
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