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Post by John on May 23, 2019 11:23:26 GMT -5
I have a question here. If lusting after a woman is committing adultery in the heart then most every man would be guilty of committing adultery and therefor a woman could divorce her husband for it? There is a difference between the act of adultery and adultery in your heart. The only grounds for divorce and re-marriage is actual adultery. Jesus was just letting everyone know that God looks on the heart as well. He cares about a dirty mind as well as actual sin, but there are still differences.
Sins of the heart do not involve anyone but you. Actual adultery involves sin with another individual. Along with that comes other problems, like the possibility of transmission of diseases and even pregnancies. There is also the matter of proving a person actually had lust in their heart. How many would ever admit to it?
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 23, 2019 11:28:50 GMT -5
I have a question here. If lusting after a woman is committing adultery in the heart then most every man would be guilty of committing adultery and therefor a woman could divorce her husband for it? No. Unless they are evil, so they can see such possibility in the law.
"...Why do you think evil in your hearts?" - Matthew 9:4
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected
the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith..." - Matthew 23:23
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." - Galatians 5:6
This is what happens when people only care to follow laws, the natural man follows it blindly without any love or mercy at all.
"For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God." - Galatians 2:19
That is why...
"...for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." - 2 Corinthians 3:6
The natural man just wants to kill everything, and they look for anything that justify to do the evil.
"But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation..." - Hebrews 6:9
Blessings!
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Post by Giller on May 23, 2019 11:43:24 GMT -5
I have a question here. If lusting after a woman is committing adultery in the heart then most every man would be guilty of committing adultery and therefor a woman could divorce her husband for it? There is a difference between the act of adultery and adultery in your heart. The only grounds for divorce and re-marriage is actual adultery. Jesus was just letting everyone know that God looks on the heart as well. He cares about a dirty mind as well as actual sin, but there are still differences.
Sins of the heart do not involve anyone but you. Actual adultery involves sin with another individual. Along with that comes other problems, like the possibility of transmission of diseases and even pregnancies. There is also the matter of proving a person actually had lust in their heart. How many would ever admit to it?
I would totally agree with what Butero is saying on this particular issue, and of course even though it is referring to the physical act of adultery, that does not mean that the other act in the heart is not sinful, it is. Which we are all agreeing with that.
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on May 23, 2019 13:57:34 GMT -5
My ex husband was very careful to follow so many of the laws... but he was a very angry person and I rarely saw evidence of true love. I am wondering if this is what you would call Legalistic? Like the Pharisees? and what does the mean about someone? That they have God or not?
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 23, 2019 14:09:01 GMT -5
My ex husband was very careful to follow so many of the laws... but he was a very angry person and I rarely saw evidence of true love. "...that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”" - Galatians 3:11
"Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”" - Galatians 3:12
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." - Galatians 5:6
Those who follow the law, lives for the law.
"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God;
for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be." - Romans 8:7
Those who live by faith lives for God.
"...if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." - Galatians 5:18
"...the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law." - Galatians 5:22-23
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." - Romans 10:4
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also..." - John 14:12
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin.
Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him." - 1 John 3:6
"He who does not love does not know God, for God is love." - 1 John 4:8
"We love Him because He first loved us." - 1 John 4:19
"Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." - Romans 13:10
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Post by John on May 23, 2019 14:12:08 GMT -5
My ex husband was very careful to follow so many of the laws... but he was a very angry person and I rarely saw evidence of true love. I am wondering if this is what you would call Legalistic? Like the Pharisees? and what does the mean about someone? That they have God or not? We should try to obey God's laws. It just sounds like an imperfect person. I can't judge if a person is saved just by that.
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 23, 2019 14:18:10 GMT -5
We should try to obey God's laws. The problem is that the natural man cannot follow the Ten Commandments (the law of God).
Then they started following the OT laws by the letter (do as written; no love, no mercy).
That is the problem and why (I believe) Jesus said:
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law:
justice and mercy and faith.
These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone." - Matthew 23:23
Blessings!
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on May 23, 2019 15:06:44 GMT -5
We should try to obey God's laws. The problem is that the natural man cannot follow the Ten Commandments (the law of God).
Then they started following the OT laws by the letter (do as written; no love, no mercy).
That is the problem and why (I believe) Jesus said:
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law:
justice and mercy and faith.
These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone." - Matthew 23:23
Blessings!This scripture along with your others helped me pinpoint how I was living with him. He was very righteous and put others down and acted like everything was sinful but no love to back it up. That turns people away.
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Post by Giller on May 24, 2019 1:04:48 GMT -5
Mat 5:27-32 (27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (29) And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (30) And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (31) It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: (32) But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Mat 5:38-39 (38) Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: (39) But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Notice what it says in the blue writing, it shows Jesus mentioning things that was said under the Old testament, and not committing adultery, under the new covenant has been brought to a higher standard which just looking upon a woman to lust after her, is committing adultery with her in your heart.
And then Jesus mentions how it has been said, whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a bill of divorcement, this was mentioned in Deuteronomy 24, then he mentions the word "but".
He says but I say unto you, which here Jesus is just about to add something else that was not mentioned in Deuteronomy, which he says that, whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, now this one cause of exception, was not mentioned in Deuteronomy, and then he goes on and says that if he puts away his wife (exception fornication) he causeth her to commit adultery, and he who marries her that is divorced committeth adultery, these acts of adultery through divorce and remarriage, were not mentioned in this way as being an act of adultery, in the book of Deuteronomy.
I believe that in Deuteronomy it allowed many reasons of uncleanness as being an allowable reason of divorce and remarriage, but in Matthew, Jesus brought it to a higher standard, and only allows the sake of fornication, as a reasonable means.
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Post by John on May 24, 2019 5:39:23 GMT -5
Mat 5:27-32 (27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (29) And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (30) And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (31) It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:(32) But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Mat 5:38-39 (38) Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: (39) But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Notice what it says in the blue writing, it shows Jesus mentioning things that was said under the Old testament, and not committing adultery, under the new covenant has been brought to a higher standard which just looking upon a woman to lust after her, is committing adultery with her in your heart. And then Jesus mentions how it has been said, whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a bill of divorcement, this was mentioned in Deuteronomy 24, then he mentions the word " but". He says but I say unto you, which here Jesus is just about to add something else that was not mentioned in Deuteronomy, which he says that, whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, now this one cause of exception, was not mentioned in Deuteronomy, and then he goes on and says that if he puts away his wife (exception fornication) he causeth her to commit adultery, and he who marries her that is divorced committeth adultery, these acts of adultery through divorce and remarriage, were not mentioned in this way as being an act of adultery, in the book of Deuteronomy. I believe that in Deuteronomy it allowed many reasons of uncleanness as being an allowable reason of divorce and remarriage, but in Matthew, Jesus brought it to a higher standard, and only allows the sake of fornication, as a reasonable means. I think the intent was something serious, like sexual immorality, but that people were using the divorce clause in the law of Moses to put away their wife for frivolous reasons. Jesus came along and told us how God looks at this, not just what is in the letter. People today don't always follow what Jesus said, and they get divorced for things like, they "fell out of love," "just can't get along," "want to be free to find themselves," "their spouse is too controlling," name it. The law of the land allows this, but God does not approve.
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on May 25, 2019 7:24:50 GMT -5
The new covenant calls for high standards on both sides. On one hand, we should purpose in our heart to have no speck of unfaithfulness. On the other hand, in the event of a stumble, we should exude longsuffering grace. If both spouses commit to this, the marriage will survive.
Unfortunately, as soon as God gives us any kind of allowance or concession, people exploit it to their gain. They bring out dictionaries and split grammatical hairs. Whatever the topic, be it marriage or anything else, the intended idea behind God’s word is reduced to a technical clause. And of course the Holy Spirit “gave them” that interpretation, so they won’t be talked out of it.
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Post by Giller on May 25, 2019 11:57:11 GMT -5
Well I know that God is good, and God gave an exception, but that does not mean he wants divorce, all necessary means should be done to avoid divorce.
I think that is one of the main lessons, and as God said it was not so in the beginning.
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Post by Giller on May 25, 2019 12:01:34 GMT -5
And we have to remember that we are all learning more and more what the word is saying, not one of us, are infallible.
But nevertheless the word says what it says.
Even the wisest of us, make errors in the word.
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Post by Giller on May 25, 2019 12:30:18 GMT -5
I am a person that always seeking to be honest with the word, I just do not want to agree with someone just because they may be part of the leadership, I seek to lay those thoughts aside, and this is the truth.
I do not seek to be derogative towards people either, I do not enjoy calling people stupid, whether young in the Lord or not.
I really do not have an agenda in this study, just seeking to bring truths to the forefront.
Some may agree, some may disagree, and I have only been married once, and intend to stay married to my wife for good, I love her, I love God, I love his ways.
And I want nothing to do with divorce.
Just giving my background, just in case people may judge me.
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Post by Giller on May 25, 2019 13:53:44 GMT -5
There is no doubt that this is accurate and true.
Praise God.
Now on another note, the bible does actually say these things, which I will mention:
Mat 5:31-32 (31) It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: (32) But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Deu 24:1-2 (1) When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. (2) And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
It does mention an exception, which is fornication.
In in this Matthew scripture, it is specific of what this exception is, but in Deuteronomy, it talks about finding some uncleanness, and it is not totally specific in what this uncleanness is.
And I think we can all at least be honest with that.
Now I would agree with Butero, that it cannot mean divorcing someone for any frivolous reason in Deuteronomy, which I cannot see God allowing that, so the only 2 solutions that I can see to this, is either it is referring to, what Butero says, which is fornication, or it is referring to anything that God would have considered to be truly unclean.
It is either Jesus in Matthew was revealing what this uncleanness was, which is fornication, or either Jesus was bringing this law to a higher standard than it was back then.
I am open in seeing both sides, but right now, I see the way I have mentioned it.
And I am still studying on it, in the realm of looking at how the word uncleanness is used in the bible.
And let us be careful in judging each other, let us seek to have a good chat, and show scripture to show what we believe, and not just say I believe this, and that's it, those types of comments do not usually speak to me.
And I think it is good to explain why.
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