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Post by Giller on May 22, 2019 10:27:45 GMT -5
I just want to start this thread, so we can dissect these a bit at a time, verses which concern the topic of divorce/marriage/ remarriage stuff. I will start with three verses side by side: Mat 5:31-32 (31) It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: (32) But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
| 1Co 7:13-15 (13) And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. (14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. (15) But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
| Rom 7:2 (2) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
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These are three scriptures I want to focus on for now, and we can gradually get to others later. One word I find interesting to look into is the actual word fornication. So i will leave people to start commenting on these verses, and commenting on the words put away, depart, and things of that nature as well.
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Post by John on May 22, 2019 11:00:24 GMT -5
The word fornication is dealing with sex outside of marriage (fornication/adultery). The word pornography comes from that Greek word. Fornication is the only acceptable reason Jesus gave for divorce and re-marriage.
The passage in Corinthians is dealing with a couple that get married while neither the man or woman is saved. During the marriage, one gets saved but the other does not. The Christian is told to remain with their spouse, but if their spouse abandons them because of their new found faith, the believer is not in bondage to that person. Some believe that allows for them to remarry.
Romans says a woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if he dies, she is free to remarry. If she remarries and he is still alive, she shall be called an adulteress.
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Post by Giller on May 22, 2019 13:02:07 GMT -5
The word fornication is dealing with sex outside of marriage (fornication/adultery). The word pornography comes from that Greek word. Fornication is the only acceptable reason Jesus gave for divorce and re-marriage.
The passage in Corinthians is dealing with a couple that get married while neither the man or woman is saved. During the marriage, one gets saved but the other does not. The Christian is told to remain with their spouse, but if their spouse abandons them because of their new found faith, the believer is not in bondage to that person. Some believe that allows for them to remarry.
Romans says a woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if he dies, she is free to remarry. If she remarries and he is still alive, she shall be called an adulteress.
(strong's concordance) ( G4202
πορνεία porneia
por-ni'-ah From G4203; harlotry ( including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication. Total KJV occurrences: 26) Yes in what you have said, I pretty much would agree with that. In the case of a married person committing fornication, would you say that it is them having sex with someone outside of the marriage bed, or someone they are not married to? And there are some who mention fornication here as referring to an appetite for sex outside the marriage bed, or repeated adultery.
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Post by Giller on May 22, 2019 13:16:52 GMT -5
Mat 5:31-32 (31) It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: (32) But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
And in truth there is no doubt that fornication here, is referring to sex outside the marriage bed, which would be adultery.
Now of course God hates divorce:
Mal 2:14-16 (14) Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant. (15) And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth. (16) For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.
God hateth putting away, or divorce, and it shows marriage here is a covenant, that is a covenant between 2 people.
And even though he allows divorce and remarriage for the sake of fornication, that does not mean that he is saying that you have to do so, the best think is reconciliation, and forgiveness, and seeking to make things work.
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Post by Giller on May 22, 2019 13:36:37 GMT -5
1Co 7:10-15 (10) And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: (11) But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. (12) But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. (13) And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. (14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. (15) But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
So concerning the married, the Lord commandeth that the wife or the husband not depart from each other, and if one depart, that they remain unmarried, or be reconciled to each other.
So this is the Lord's command.
But in the case of a Christian man or woman being married to an unbeliever, it says that if the unbelieving depart, then a brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases.
In what way are they not under bondage?
And of course in Christ, the Lord wants us to only marry another Christian:
1Co 7:39 (39) The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
2Co 6:14 (14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And there is many reasons for this.
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Post by John on May 22, 2019 13:52:43 GMT -5
The word fornication is dealing with sex outside of marriage (fornication/adultery). The word pornography comes from that Greek word. Fornication is the only acceptable reason Jesus gave for divorce and re-marriage.
The passage in Corinthians is dealing with a couple that get married while neither the man or woman is saved. During the marriage, one gets saved but the other does not. The Christian is told to remain with their spouse, but if their spouse abandons them because of their new found faith, the believer is not in bondage to that person. Some believe that allows for them to remarry.
Romans says a woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if he dies, she is free to remarry. If she remarries and he is still alive, she shall be called an adulteress.
(strong's concordance) ( G4202
πορνεία porneia
por-ni'-ah From G4203; harlotry ( including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication. Total KJV occurrences: 26) Yes in what you have said, I pretty much would agree with that. In the case of a married person committing fornication, would you say that it is them having sex with someone outside of the marriage bed, or someone they are not married to? And there are some who mention fornication here as referring to an appetite for sex outside the marriage bed, or repeated adultery. The subject is divorce, so we are speaking of married people. Any sex they have with anyone but their spouse is adultery. I believe it must be the physical act of adultery, not just thoughts.
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Post by John on May 22, 2019 13:58:33 GMT -5
1Co 7:10-15 (10) And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: (11) But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. (12) But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. (13) And the woman which h ath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. (14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. (15) But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. So concerning the married, the Lord commandeth that the wife or the husband not depart from each other, and if one depart, that they remain unmarried, or be reconciled to each other. So this is the Lord's command. But in the case of a Christian man or woman being married to an unbeliever, it says that if the unbelieving depart, then a brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases. In what way are they not under bondage? And of course in Christ, the Lord wants us to only marry another Christian: 1Co 7:39 (39) The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. 2Co 6:14 (14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And there is many reasons for this. First of all, we are commanded not to be unequally yoked with an unbeliever, so they both entered the marriage unsaved. If one gets saved and leaves, not in bondage would seem to indicate free from the marriage, but I can't be 100 percent sure they are okay to remarry.
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Post by Giller on May 23, 2019 0:07:59 GMT -5
(strong's concordance) ( G4202
πορνεία porneia
por-ni'-ah From G4203; harlotry ( including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication. Total KJV occurrences: 26) Yes in what you have said, I pretty much would agree with that. In the case of a married person committing fornication, would you say that it is them having sex with someone outside of the marriage bed, or someone they are not married to? And there are some who mention fornication here as referring to an appetite for sex outside the marriage bed, or repeated adultery. The subject is divorce, so we are speaking of married people. Any sex they have with anyone but their spouse is adultery. I believe it must be the physical act of adultery, not just thoughts.
Totally agree with this, and that it must be the physical act.
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Post by Giller on May 23, 2019 0:19:04 GMT -5
1Co 7:10-15 (10) And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: (11) But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. (12) But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. (13) And the woman which h ath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. (14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. (15) But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. So concerning the married, the Lord commandeth that the wife or the husband not depart from each other, and if one depart, that they remain unmarried, or be reconciled to each other. So this is the Lord's command. But in the case of a Christian man or woman being married to an unbeliever, it says that if the unbelieving depart, then a brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases. In what way are they not under bondage? And of course in Christ, the Lord wants us to only marry another Christian: 1Co 7:39 (39) The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. 2Co 6:14 (14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And there is many reasons for this. First of all, we are commanded not to be unequally yoked with an unbeliever, so they both entered the marriage unsaved. If one gets saved and leaves, not in bondage would seem to indicate free from the marriage, but I can't be 100 percent sure they are okay to remarry.
Oh no doubt that for the most part both would have entered the marriage as unbelievers, and one would have gotten saved. But are there times were someone just becomes a new Christian, and does not know much about marriage, and just happens to marry an unbeliever? And in the case of one departing, it says if the unbeliever departs, then a brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases. There is no doubt that they are not under bondage to remain in that marriage, but whether or not being under bondage, also includes, being able to remarry, that is something to ponder on.
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Post by Giller on May 23, 2019 1:42:01 GMT -5
Right now I want to compare 2 scriptures: Mat 19:3-9 (3) The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? (4) And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (7) They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? (8) He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. (9) And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
| Deu 24:1-4 (1) When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. (2) And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. (3) And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; (4) Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
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I think one key word in Deuteronomy, is found in the word uncleanness. Now the response of the Pharisees were, is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? So did the Pharisees truly even know what the command in Deuteronomy was talking about, when it mentions the husband having found some uncleanness in her? I know that many commentators say many things about the word uncleanness in Deuteronomy, some say that it refers to if they found any thing that they disliked about their wife, even burning toasts, which I do not bear witness with this. Now the Hebrew word for uncleanness in Deuteronomy is the word er-vaw' which here are the meanings: nudity, literally (especially the pudenda) or figuratively (disgrace, blemish): - nakedness, shame, unclean (-ness). Some take it to only refer to fornication, though there are others who may take to mean, anything that is truly unclean in God's site. But setting that aside, Jesus says that Moses commanded them to give their wives a writing of divorcement, because of the hardness of their hearts, that is because of the hardness of the husband's heart, who is putting away his wife. What a statement !!! And there is no doubt that what was being talked about here was what was mentioned in Deuteronomy 24. In Deuteronomy, it mentions that if he found some uncleanness in her, he may write a bill of divorcement, and have her go out her house, and she could remarry, and be married to someone else. In Matthew, it says that whosoever putteth away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commiteth adultery, and whosoever marrieth her that is put away doth commit adultery. To me, it seems that Jesus is bringing the command that Moses gave in Deuteronomy, to a higher plain in Matthew, or to a higher standard, just because of the way his response was towards the pharisee's question.. To me, it seems that finding some uncleanness in his wife, refers to not just things like fornication, but anything that might be truly unclean in God's site, such as taking the Lord's name in vain, stealing etc. But in Matthew, Jesus only gives one legit reason for divorce and remarriage, which is only for the sake of fornication, and not for any other truly unclean reason. And also I have another reason for thinking this way, which what Jesus said about, except for the sake of fornication in Matthew 19, is also found in Matthew 5, which says: Mat 5:27-32 (27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (29) And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (30) And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (31) It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: (32) But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Mat 5:38-39 (38) Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: (39) But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. If you read, many of the verses that are in Matthew 5, you will see that many things mentioned are things mentioned that Jesus has brought to a higher level, or standard under the new covenant. And even though Jesus was fulfilling the Old covenant, he was also introducing to the people the new covenant, it was a transition period. And we can see that committing adultery, has been brought to a whole new level under the new covenant, which just looking at a woman to lust after her is committing adultery with her. Now God did look at people's hearts under the old covenant, but in the new covenant, things of the heart, get revealed in a deeper way, and things get brought to a new level. Also the right cheek thing is another thing introduced in the new covenant, and we can see that this thing of saving for the cause of fornication, is put along side things that are mentioned, that have been brought to a new level under the new covenant.
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Post by Giller on May 23, 2019 2:21:30 GMT -5
Mat 19:3-9 (3) The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? (4) And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (7) They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? (8) He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. (9) And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
| Deu 24:1-4 (1) When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. (2) And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. (3) And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; (4) Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
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Another thing I want to focus on is this, that on the side of Matthew, it mentions that if someone puts away his wife, with the exception being fornication, and marries another commits adultery, and whosoever marries her that is divorced commits adultery. These are considered acts of adultery, in God's eyes. But some say that they remain adulterers for the rest of their lives, unless they divorce their mate, and go back to their first mate. But Deuteronomy, shows that one cannot go back to their former mate, if they remarried, and God calls it an abomination if they try to. And can they even get out of their remarriage? Well one thing I do know is that these people should repent of their act of adultery, in remarrying a second time, to were they had no legit cause to do so. And they should no longer follow after this pattern, but does that mean that they can now get out of their marriage? Well I see no evidence of this. But some will say that, well Romans proves it, well let us go to that scripture and compare this one to Deuteronomy. Rom 7:2-4 (2) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. (3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. (4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
| Deu 24:1-4 (1) When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. (2) And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. (3) And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; (4) Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
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Now let us look at what is said, and at what is not said. In Deuteronomy, it clearly shows divorcement, and remarriage to another, but in Romans, there is no sign of divorcement at all, no mention of it at all. Now even in the spiritual meaning of the law, and being married to another, that is Christ, is shows the death of one (being dead to the law), and being married to another, that is Christ. And you cannot be both married to the law, and Christ, it does not mix. Well in the physical example, it mentions a woman already having an husband, yet being married to another man, it shows nothing about her divorcing the first, and both are called her husband, which could this be referring to bigamy? And could have bigamy, or even polygamy, have been brought to a higher level under the new covenant, to were it is no longer tolerated? To were you remain an adulterer or adulteress, for the rest of your life, unless, you divorce the other partner and thus remain just married to one? Well I know that the spiritual example mentions nothing about divorce, but rather to a death, and thus being married to another, that is Christ, and we know that we cannot be both married to the law and Christ, for that would be in essence, spiritual adultery.
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Post by John on May 23, 2019 6:50:23 GMT -5
First of all, we are commanded not to be unequally yoked with an unbeliever, so they both entered the marriage unsaved. If one gets saved and leaves, not in bondage would seem to indicate free from the marriage, but I can't be 100 percent sure they are okay to remarry.
Oh no doubt that for the most part both would have entered the marriage as unbelievers, and one would have gotten saved. But are there times were someone just becomes a new Christian, and does not know much about marriage, and just happens to marry an unbeliever? And in the case of one departing, it says if the unbeliever departs, then a brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases. There is no doubt that they are not under bondage to remain in that marriage, but whether or not being under bondage, also includes, being able to remarry, that is something to ponder on. It doesn't just happen with new Christians. I know of an Assemblies of God pastor that gave his blessings for his daughter to marry a Muslim. It didn't work out. The man was physically abusive and they are now divorced.
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Post by Giller on May 23, 2019 9:50:39 GMT -5
Oh no doubt that for the most part both would have entered the marriage as unbelievers, and one would have gotten saved. But are there times were someone just becomes a new Christian, and does not know much about marriage, and just happens to marry an unbeliever? And in the case of one departing, it says if the unbeliever departs, then a brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases. There is no doubt that they are not under bondage to remain in that marriage, but whether or not being under bondage, also includes, being able to remarry, that is something to ponder on. It doesn't just happen with new Christians. I know of an Assemblies of God pastor that gave his blessings for his daughter to marry a Muslim. It didn't work out. The man was physically abusive and they are now divorced.
Oh I would agree with that, and there are some who think that, oh I will marry an unbeliever and save him, which is not the way of God, and often times it ends up in divorce or the unbeliever changes the believer, and the believer turns away from the Lord.
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Post by Giller on May 23, 2019 10:09:03 GMT -5
Heb 13:4 (4) Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
God recognizes marriages between a man and a woman, even among unbelievers, when they give themselves over to each other, and make their vows, they are married, and God recognizes their marriage.
And of course the marriage should be consummated in the act of love making.
But nevertheless it is recognized.
But when someone is a Christian, that person is to marry in the Lord only, and not outside of the Lord.
They ought to marry another Christian.
And no were in the bible does God recognize homosexual marriages.
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on May 23, 2019 11:15:45 GMT -5
I have a question here. If lusting after a woman is committing adultery in the heart then most every man would be guilty of committing adultery and therefor a woman could divorce her husband for it?
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