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Heaven
Jun 14, 2019 17:07:04 GMT -5
Post by joseph on Jun 14, 2019 17:07:04 GMT -5
I think about this sometimes. The thought of not having a body terrified me. But in Scripture, it says that it is better to be with the Lord in death than alive here on earth. I believe that. I believe the Lord has a place for us in our Father's house and that it will be a good place even though we are used to having bodies. I trust God's love for us. His love for us is nothing short of astounding. It is better to be with the Lord Jesus, yes. When we are with the Lord Jesus, we will have a body. Remember, He does. There's no where in Scripture that souls or our spirits float aimlessly or float around without a body. Relax. God knows what He is doing. See the url for the rich man and lazarus by bullinger for a very complete and thorough study of all the Scripture about the afterlife.
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Post by John on Jun 15, 2019 19:54:11 GMT -5
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Rev 6:9 When the lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the word of God and the testimony they had given. Rev 6:10 They cried out in a loud voice, "Holy and true Sovereign, how long will it be before you judge and take revenge on those living on the earth who shed our blood?" Rev 6:11 Each of them was given a white robe. They were told to rest a little longer until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers was completed, who would be killed as they themselves had been. Jesus conquered the grave and death. no grave can hold us, and death is not just a something, but a someone. because of what Jesus has done, and His Spirit in us there is no reason for any delay. once we breath our last, we are with Him. Jesus said there was some standing there(then) that would not taste of death. What did he mean that some would not taste of death? If you belong to Christ when he returns, you won't taste of death, but will be instantly changed. You will have a glorified body that will live forever.
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Heaven
Jun 16, 2019 5:50:00 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by solid on Jun 16, 2019 5:50:00 GMT -5
Christ Himself told the thief on the cross " This day will you be with me in paradise " Even Christ was not in paradise this day. i.e. mis-interpretation. When you have to blame a mistranslation to defend what you believe, and we are talking about the KJV Bible, the Bible isn't the problem. The rich man and Lazarus proves OT saints went to paradise.
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Heaven
Jun 16, 2019 6:22:11 GMT -5
John likes this
Post by Sister on Jun 16, 2019 6:22:11 GMT -5
Yes but is paradise the same as heaven? Is it where his throne is or his footstool?
Remember it says that paradise is the 3rd heaven?
My Father's house has many mansions.
Different levels. God's throne is way higher than the 3rd heaven.
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Heaven
Jun 16, 2019 8:01:16 GMT -5
John likes this
Post by Dezi on Jun 16, 2019 8:01:16 GMT -5
Yes but is paradise the same as heaven? Is it where his throne is or his footstool?
Remember it says that paradise is the 3rd heaven?
My Father's house has many mansions.
Different levels. God's throne is way higher than the 3rd heaven.
Can you give me the scripture for this? I am trying to learn.
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Heaven
Jun 16, 2019 19:13:10 GMT -5
John likes this
Post by Sister on Jun 16, 2019 19:13:10 GMT -5
Yes but is paradise the same as heaven? Is it where his throne is or his footstool?
Remember it says that paradise is the 3rd heaven?
My Father's house has many mansions.
Different levels. God's throne is way higher than the 3rd heaven.
Can you give me the scripture for this? I am trying to learn. Hi Dezi
I am still learning too, which is why I wanted us to all to put our heads together and learn together.
We were given a clue that paradise is the third heaven here;
2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2 Corinthians 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Now remember what Jesus said here;
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Which is why I said before there are different levels.
Paradise, the third heaven is "of" the kingdom of heaven, or the kingdom of God (same thing), because God's kingdom is a heavenly kingdom, and this place called paradise is on the third level. It's not the highest level, but one of the stages. If a dead soul is put into paradise, it's a pretty good thing.
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Heaven
Jun 16, 2019 19:47:12 GMT -5
Post by Sister on Jun 16, 2019 19:47:12 GMT -5
Just to be more clear on what I am trying to convey here;
God made heaven for the angels, and earth for man.
God's kingdom was put on earth for man to dwell in. It's a refuge, a safe haven, and a place of learning and growing. It's not a kingdom we can see with our eyes, but a spiritual kingdom consisting of all God's laws and commandments where his Word is. It's a holy kingdom where truth and righteousness dwells, and it started on earth in the garden of Eden which is where the tree of life is. This is paradise.
If we are walking in God's laws, we are walking in his kingdom, in his ways. Jesus was sent to bring us back into God's kingdom on earth, where Adam and Eve were first placed, and he did this by giving us truth. When we die, we are planted in this garden, that was put here from the beginning (just our souls) which is the essence of our spirit. It contains all our works and everything we have done. We can do nothing with out a body. Paradise is a holding ground, just like Butero mentioned, a place preserved for the righteous. This is the barn that Jesus mentioned where the fruit will be stored until the resurrection. Once we are changed we can eat of this tree of life in full measure, and that is after the resurrection. There are two resurrections, one at the Coming and another one a thousand years later. Not all souls who are planted in paradise will take part in the first resurrection, because some will be brought back in their flesh into the visible kingdom during the millennium (the remnants of Israel). All who die from then on during that period will still be planted in paradise awaiting the 2nd resurrection, and kept in the barn until their change.
Now there is more to it but I will just stop here for now to not confuse.
Ask many many questions Dezi, for that's the only way we can learn. Always ask for proof.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jun 16, 2019 20:41:20 GMT -5
Especially from God."...yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written..." - Romans 3:4
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek,
and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you..." - Matthew 7:7
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Heaven
Jun 17, 2019 14:49:10 GMT -5
Post by joseph on Jun 17, 2019 14:49:10 GMT -5
Even Christ was not in paradise this day. i.e. mis-interpretation. When you have to blame a mistranslation to defend what you believe, and we are talking about the KJV Bible, the Bible isn't the problem. The rich man and Lazarus proves OT saints went to paradise. You mis-interpreted badly. No where in the KJV is it written that Jesus went to Paradise before He ascended into Heaven in site of His Apostles. Your theory depends on information that is not present in any translation including KJV.
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Heaven
Jun 17, 2019 18:09:53 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by solid on Jun 17, 2019 18:09:53 GMT -5
When you have to blame a mistranslation to defend what you believe, and we are talking about the KJV Bible, the Bible isn't the problem. The rich man and Lazarus proves OT saints went to paradise. You mis-interpreted badly. No where in the KJV is it written that Jesus went to Paradise before He ascended into Heaven in site of His Apostles. Your theory depends on information that is not present in any translation including KJV. He told the thief they would both be in paradise the day of their crucifixion.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jun 17, 2019 18:42:30 GMT -5
I think about this sometimes. The thought of not having a body terrified me. But in Scripture, it says that it is better to be with the Lord in death than alive here on earth. I believe that. I believe the Lord has a place for us in our Father's house and that it will be a good place even though we are used to having bodies. I trust God's love for us. His love for us is nothing short of astounding. 1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
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Heaven
Jun 18, 2019 13:02:15 GMT -5
Post by joseph on Jun 18, 2019 13:02:15 GMT -5
You mis-interpreted badly. No where in the KJV is it written that Jesus went to Paradise before He ascended into Heaven in site of His Apostles. Your theory depends on information that is not present in any translation including KJV. He told the thief they would both be in paradise the day of their crucifixion. Today I tell you @ solid you will be with me in paradise. Will you be in paradise today ? No. Neither was Jesus. Nor the thief. Someday, yes. I tell you today you will be with me in paradise - Yahuweh Willing you and I both are resurrected to eternal life, and not to destruction. Likewise, Jesus told the thief he would be in paradise with Jesus in the life to come. Not "today the day of the execution". That would VIOLATE too many SCRIPTURES. SCRIPTURE VIOLATING ONE SCRIPTURE is not possible, let alone more than one ============================ bibleq.net/answer/490/ bibleq.net/answer/490/
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Post by John on Jun 18, 2019 13:45:16 GMT -5
He told the thief they would both be in paradise the day of their crucifixion. Today I tell you @ solid you will be with me in paradise. Will you be in paradise today ? No. Neither was Jesus. Nor the thief. Someday, yes. I tell you today you will be with me in paradise - Yahuweh Willing you and I both are resurrected to eternal life, and not to destruction. Likewise, Jesus told the thief he would be in paradise with Jesus in the life to come. Not "today the day of the execution". That would VIOLATE too many SCRIPTURES. SCRIPTURE VIOLATING ONE SCRIPTURE is not possible, let alone more than one ============================ bibleq.net/answer/490/ bibleq.net/answer/490/ Scripture won't violate scripture, but Jesus did tell the thief they would both be in paradise that very day, the day of the crucifixion. Whether I go with what you posted, or the KJV Bible, they both say that.
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Jesus did mean that day, and He and the thief went straight to paradise when they died. If Jesus said that to me, he would mean that very day, not in the bye an bye. It doesn't violate any scriptures taken in context to believe that. As a matter of fact, claiming that nobody is in paradise would be contrary to Jesus' story about the rich man and Lazarus. If you are promoting soul sleep, that can be proven wrong by Moses appearing to Jesus at the mount of transfiguration, as Moses died and God buried him. All the scriptures that speak of the dead sleeping are only speaking of the physical body, not the real person. The real person is absent from the body and present with the Lord. Even the Apostle Paul spoke about the struggle he had whether to remain or die, because in dying, he would be with the Lord.
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Heaven
Jun 18, 2019 13:48:21 GMT -5
Post by joseph on Jun 18, 2019 13:48:21 GMT -5
Today I tell you @ solid you will be with me in paradise. Will you be in paradise today ? No. Neither was Jesus. Nor the thief. Someday, yes. I tell you today you will be with me in paradise - Yahuweh Willing you and I both are resurrected to eternal life, and not to destruction. Likewise, Jesus told the thief he would be in paradise with Jesus in the life to come. Not "today the day of the execution". That would VIOLATE too many SCRIPTURES. SCRIPTURE VIOLATING ONE SCRIPTURE is not possible, let alone more than one ============================ bibleq.net/answer/490/ bibleq.net/answer/490/ Scripture won't violate scripture, but Jesus did tell the thief they would both be in paradise that very day, the day of the crucifixion. Whether I go with what you posted, or the KJV Bible, they both say that.
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Jesus did mean that day, and He and the thief went straight to paradise when they died. If Jesus said that to me, he would mean that very day, not in the bye an bye. It doesn't violate any scriptures taken in context to believe that. As a matter of fact, claiming that nobody is in paradise would be contrary to Jesus' story about the rich man and Lazarus. If you are promoting soul sleep, that can be proven wrong by Moses appearing to Jesus at the mount of transfiguration, as Moses died and God buried him. All the scriptures that speak of the dead sleeping are only speaking of the physical body, not the real person. The real person is absent from the body and present with the Lord. Even the Apostle Paul spoke about the struggle he had whether to remain or die, because in dying, he would be with the Lord. Sigh. Because of a false teaching, and a comma, Butero, that myth is still believed.
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Heaven
Jun 18, 2019 13:49:44 GMT -5
Post by joseph on Jun 18, 2019 13:49:44 GMT -5
www.markfoster.net/rn/how_to_enjoy_the_bible_bullinger.pdf4. Paradise , παραδειοσος .— Paradise is an Oriental word, and was apparently first used by Xenophon to indicate the parks of the Persian kings. It originally meant an enclosed park, planted with trees, and stocked with game. In such paradises eastern monarchs were wont to take their pleasure in hunting. But the Holy Spirit has exalted it, and used it in a sense higher than that in which man had ever used it. For "the Paradise of God" is the "garden" which God planted in Eden for man's blissful abode. And when the curse shall have been removed, the whole earth will be a paradise where God shall again dwell with man. The Bible knows no other Paradise. The Greek word παραδεισος occurs in the Septuagint twenty-eight times. In nine it represents the Hebrew word "Eden"; and in nineteen places the Hebrew word Nga (gan), garden . In English it is rendered Eden, Garden, Forest, Orchard . The Hebrew word Eden occurs sixteen times; and Garden , is used of Eden, thirteen times in Genesis; and six times in other passages of "the Garden of God" (see Gen 2; Neh 2:8; Eccl 2:5; Song 4:13). It is man who has changed the usage of the word from its only Biblical usage, and dragged it down and fastened on it the meaning given to it in Babylonian, Jewish, and Romish traditions.
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