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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2019 7:48:11 GMT -5
Can I ask what kind of church you go to? So many churches teach OSAS. Especially the ones I've been to. i have not asked. i do not think it is a denomination or even claims to be non-denominational. so far best i can tell the people believe we are the body of Christ and desire to be the body, do His will, and worship in Spirit and Truth.
i was working for a man. his next door neighbor asked if he could work me when my then boss was not using me. i began to work for this new guy. turns out he was the pastor of the church. i had not known that he was a pastor for around a month until we got to speaking on deeper things of the LORD one day concerning being used of God. he casually mentioned he was a pastor. I am skeptic of preachers so i went to the home group a few times first and i like what i hear. the collection plate is in the back, never passed around either. its a small church.
my advice, dont look at the sign in front of the church. look for The Holy Spirit to DRAW you to a church. either by being led or like you feel your spirit being pulled to that church when in close proximity. and stay prayed up on fellowshipping and worshiping with believers who desire Spirit and Truth. the whole truth. God invited me to the first church i went to... they preached prosperity and faith teachings there. 3 years i went. then i realized the truth. God dont always work like we think He will. sometimes He will do the opposite of what we think is right or what we want... but He wastes nothing, no opportunity. Be led of the Spirit. let your heart and mind be stayed on Jesus... even when others are drowning in the cares of this life, and "ministries" i learned the truth because God showed me... but he drug me thru some mud to get there. Thank God for the mud... thank God for the mud.
God wants us to be ... wants our hearts to be closely knitted together with those we fellowship with.
Amen, the Lord works in mysterious ways, not the way we would do things....His ways are higher than ours.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2019 8:00:38 GMT -5
The Pentecostal churches around here are basically teaching OSAS. This is a really tricky subject and prone to legalistic and literal transliteration. The Tanach speaks of God's designs many times and His exhortations to follow and obey Him Alone. In this day of over literalism, we have lost the art of conversation and allusion. We do not see the writer's points of view and thus are prone to overlook hyperbole. We just cannot understand WORDS anymore and see allegory as FACT and literal fact is taught rather than what was really meant. Unless you get in the Hebrew mindset you will not understand much of scripture. If you are not a student of the Tanach, then studying the New Testament writings will be difficult. The writers read books. Lots of them and one can see in the apostles' turn of phrase how they adopted many of the allegories that books such as Enoch and other writings around the time of Christ. Allegory and metaphor are often the tools of the writer to convey a deeper message. They refer to REAL things and are not make believe. In our modern literal mind-set we have lost the pictorial ability to glean meaning from a metaphor, so we beat people over the head with LITERAL clubs and never really are able to understand THEIR TRUE MEANINGS. We think that 'the pillars of the earth' are REAL and not metaphorical descriptions of our world. Thus our overly literal sacred-cow births the flat earth ideas. One must understand Mesopotamian world-views to see how our God was deliberately 'seated on the clouds' to dispel the Baal ideas which used similar language. Sadly we are so overcome with one dimensional word use that we cannot see the many-sided ideas that words convey. Thus we argue over OSAS. We cannot see the depth of the Lord's Love because we have reduced Him to a shallow set of rules that we only half understand anyway. We want to try and see negative impact in His Positive Words and Works. Think about this please. Amen to your main point brother, as you are pointing to the need for spiritual understanding. But if I may just say that I think in terms of it being not so much a Hebrew mindset we need, but rather the mind of Christ. Remembering that Israel without faith was not able to understand the parables of Jesus, or even much of the Tanach....which is the word of God rather than the word of Hebrews. Even the Jewish/Hebrew disciples were apprehending things too literally and needed to be taught by Jesus. He is the one who gave light to their (and our) understanding....He is/was the Key of David which unlocks the scriptures which are chock full of parables and things that need to be understood spiritually with His mindset. His thoughts are not like man's thoughts, which includes the thoughts of the Jews.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Jul 20, 2019 20:33:21 GMT -5
I don't believe the Bible supports OSAS anymore. But this leads me to some questions.
Isn't it easier to obey the Lord if you have a church?
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Post by frienduff on Jul 21, 2019 10:54:59 GMT -5
Here , I got something much simpler to say . UNLESS YE are born again and HAVE THE SPIRIT , ye cannot rightly discern the HOLY INSPIRED SCRIPTURE . That is called POINTING TO JESUS as our only means to be saved and to know or understand ANYTHING of TRUTH rightly divided . What we will find in what I said , IS TOTAL POINTING TO JESUS and what we wont find is any relying on ourselves or anything BUT CHRIST . Now , Who wants to praise the LORD . I KNOW I DO . HANDS UP AND REJOICE IN THE LORD .
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Post by frienduff on Jul 21, 2019 10:57:39 GMT -5
This is a really tricky subject and prone to legalistic and literal transliteration. The Tanach speaks of God's designs many times and His exhortations to follow and obey Him Alone. In this day of over literalism, we have lost the art of conversation and allusion. We do not see the writer's points of view and thus are prone to overlook hyperbole. We just cannot understand WORDS anymore and see allegory as FACT and literal fact is taught rather than what was really meant. Unless you get in the Hebrew mindset you will not understand much of scripture. If you are not a student of the Tanach, then studying the New Testament writings will be difficult. The writers read books. Lots of them and one can see in the apostles' turn of phrase how they adopted many of the allegories that books such as Enoch and other writings around the time of Christ. Allegory and metaphor are often the tools of the writer to convey a deeper message. They refer to REAL things and are not make believe. In our modern literal mind-set we have lost the pictorial ability to glean meaning from a metaphor, so we beat people over the head with LITERAL clubs and never really are able to understand THEIR TRUE MEANINGS. We think that 'the pillars of the earth' are REAL and not metaphorical descriptions of our world. Thus our overly literal sacred-cow births the flat earth ideas. One must understand Mesopotamian world-views to see how our God was deliberately 'seated on the clouds' to dispel the Baal ideas which used similar language. Sadly we are so overcome with one dimensional word use that we cannot see the many-sided ideas that words convey. Thus we argue over OSAS. We cannot see the depth of the Lord's Love because we have reduced Him to a shallow set of rules that we only half understand anyway. We want to try and see negative impact in His Positive Words and Works. Think about this please. Amen to your main point brother, as you are pointing to the need for spiritual understanding. But if I may just say that I think in terms of it being not so much a Hebrew mindset we need, but rather the mind of Christ. Remembering that Israel without faith was not able to understand the parables of Jesus, or even much of the Tanach....which is the word of God rather than the word of Hebrews. Even the Jewish/Hebrew disciples were apprehending things too literally and needed to be taught by Jesus. He is the one who gave light to their (and our) understanding....He is/was the Key of David which unlocks the scriptures which are chock full of parables and things that need to be understood spiritually with His mindset. His thoughts are not like man's thoughts, which includes the thoughts of the Jews. Sister its like confirmation yet again . I wrote what I did , then I read what you wrote . ALL POINTING TO JESUS . And I see JUSTIN LOVED IT TOO . WELL HANDS UP and LET ALL REJIOCE IN THE LORD and in the LORD LET ALL REJOICE . TURN this place into one giant praise fest UNTO THE LORD .
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Post by frienduff on Jul 21, 2019 11:00:32 GMT -5
I don't believe the Bible supports OSAS anymore. But this leads me to some questions. Isn't it easier to obey the Lord if you have a church? If that church has solid leaders . if not , its better to flee it . For now we will look out for one another , FOR it is the same spirit in each one that does the work the whole body needs to be built up in Christ . You put those hands up , Naominash, AND OH YES , ITS TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 21, 2019 11:21:08 GMT -5
The last time I found a good church was in Minnesota in 2008. It’s been a downward slope ever since. Good churches are out there, I’m sure, but not where I live.
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Post by frienduff on Jul 22, 2019 14:17:41 GMT -5
The last time I found a good church was in Minnesota in 2008. It’s been a downward slope ever since. Good churches are out there, I’m sure, but not where I live. And the choir says AMEN . You aint kidding sister . And if we were to trade cities , You would see I aint either . I could not find one here . And my town is almost one hundred thousand people . YEAH . WE in the worst of the falling away and its getting way worse all the time . But the LORD gave us this tiny refuge . Maybe one day , LORD Willing we will all be meeting in person as well . For now , we have what we have . And let us use it for the GLORY of GOD . You are LOVED dear sister . SO hands up everyone and praise the LORD .
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Post by frienduff on Jul 22, 2019 18:33:32 GMT -5
This is so sad , but I have been at worthy for just over two years . And I have helped not a single soul . That was when I realized , its time to go man . Just time to go . For a while , maybe for good . We gotta focus on exhorting one another . And when you are in an area for two years and not one person has been helped , then I would say ITS time to move on .
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Post by frienduff on Jul 22, 2019 18:35:01 GMT -5
So let us be encouraged IN THE LORD . AND let all rejoice in the LORD . And letus feast continuously on the bible and exhort one another daily . When lambs love truth , that is one happy peaceful place . Put those hands up and rejoce in the LORD and in the LORD let all rejoice .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 22, 2019 18:50:26 GMT -5
This is so sad , but I have been at worthy for just over two years . And I have helped not a single soul . That was when I realized , its time to go man . Just time to go . For a while , maybe for good . We gotta focus on exhorting one another . And when you are in an area for two years and not one person has been helped , then I would say ITS time to move on . Don’t say that brother. We have made a difference to Naomi. And you guys did recruit several of us over here for good fellowship. BB lied about Hebrews. Straight out lie. I called him on it. Just so you know.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Jul 22, 2019 18:56:36 GMT -5
This is so sad , but I have been at worthy for just over two years . And I have helped not a single soul . That was when I realized , its time to go man . Just time to go . For a while , maybe for good . We gotta focus on exhorting one another . And when you are in an area for two years and not one person has been helped , then I would say ITS time to move on . Don’t say that brother. We have made a difference to Naomi. And you guys did recruit several of us over here for good fellowship. BB lied about Hebrews. Straight out lie. I called him on it. Just so you know. Yes, I was really on the fence about OSAS. Frienduff, you have helped influence me and probably others who lurk on the forums.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Jul 22, 2019 19:07:52 GMT -5
I've been getting a lot of people questioning my stance on OSAS so I've been thinking about it.
I think the Bible warns so much about sin and losing salvation because sin is deceitful. Sin eventually causes you to not see salvation in Christ as valuable to the point where you fall away.
Hopefully that wasn't too obvious sounding but it helps me. The pieces are beginning to come together.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 6:45:04 GMT -5
When we're arguing with minds of flesh it often doesn't seem as though we're making any dents, and sometimes it can even cause their mind to dig into it's preferred position all the harder. But its' the heart that matters far more and it can take time for the word of God to sprout and grow in the heart after it's been planted. And then it can take time for the mind to catch up with what the heart knows...that's why we sometimes see people sort of contradicting themselves without realizing it. So maybe it's just a good time to leave it in God's hands for the dust to settle and for Him to give the increase, and we could just give reminders of His word now and then in the meantime without going loggerheads. People are often slow or reluctant to openly back down from a position, or even to themselves privately, when they have been arguing so vehemently in public about a point....they sometimes need time to catch up with themselves, and time and space for the Lord to work on them. We are not always the best judges of how effective we've been because fruit takes time to grow and we often might not know until eternity who was helped by something we said.
I don't who is cessationist over there any more, some of the ones I used to know are gone....but they are the ones in the biggest trouble I think. The big scandal that broke recently regarding the Southern Baptist church...is God exposing and judging that house. They are cessationists and so they don't believe in being filled with the Holy Spirit......and if they don't have Him in these last days they are just sunk. I'm pretty sure cessationism can be considered to be an outright false gospel....it's such a huge and destructive lie.....without the Holy Spirit they just can't seem to perceive and apprehend the truth no matter how simple and plain it is shown to them.
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Post by John on Jul 23, 2019 7:57:24 GMT -5
I don't believe the Bible supports OSAS anymore. But this leads me to some questions. Isn't it easier to obey the Lord if you have a church? If the church is in the truth, yes. A false church will do more harm than good.
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