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Post by John on Jan 23, 2020 17:50:16 GMT -5
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39
He is talking to those who are serving the Lord, and for them, all of this is true. None of those things can separate a person who is serving the Lord from the Lord.
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Post by John on Jan 23, 2020 17:52:12 GMT -5
777 , you did a great job on those verses you addressed, so I am going to leave the others for you if you want to tackle them. You can also add to anything I said, or give your own input, as can anyone else.
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Post by solid on Jan 23, 2020 18:24:53 GMT -5
It reminds me of how people who are brainwashed into a cult act when their beliefs are changed. They won't even listen to what you have to say for fear it might force them to reconsider what they believe. All emotions. Even abandons what she posted before discussing it. This is really sad. She probably goes to a church that makes these convoluted arguments and she repeats them with no thought she was taught wrong. You hit the nail on the head. I often joke that these people tend to worship OSAS like a god. I would pronounce their god OH-SASS. That is who they serve. They live to make converts to OSAS. The only thing missing is the graven image to it.
That is about right. It is not about making converts to Jesus, but about winning souls for OSAS (oh-sass). Lol
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Post by Apostle's Instructions on Jan 24, 2020 5:25:34 GMT -5
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:20-22
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 24, 2020 8:51:42 GMT -5
I saw its in. The statement of faith if people are denying Christ s ability to save sinners the power of the holy spirit the new birth ,and trying to judge Jesus and him as a saviour and that nothing can separate us from his love I have no place here if this idea is in the statement of faith..its an issue of unblief both by people who despise the mercy of God abuse his grace and by people who don't believe Jesus is the Messiah basically..thank you my friend. I think I'm out of here to preach to the lost the good news ..this argument just shows that people who agree with it don't have faith in Jesus,, and or are confusing false converts bad behaviour with what Jesus has done ..I won't waste my time. đź‘‹ This thread was worth it all just to have this post in it from a true believer in OSAS. I couldn't have found a better example of the kind of thinking leads to belief in OSAS. Look at the non-stop accusations. What are we accused of?
1. Denying Christ's Ability To Save Sinners. If we didn't believe that Jesus could save sinners, we wouldn't be here. We believe that he can not only save them from hell, but he can save them from the bondages of sin.
2. Denying the power of the Holy Spirit. We believe in the Holy Spirit as our teacher and guide and that he gives us the power to live a life pleasing to Christ, not just the power to escape hell.
3. Denying the new birth. Every one of us believes in being born again. This is just false.
4. Trying to judge Jesus. How exactly?
5. Him as savior. We believe that Jesus saved us, meaning we believe he is our savior.
6. Nothing can separate us from his love. This is a vague reference to Romans 8:35, where a question is asked by Paul. "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?" Can any of these things separate us from the love of Christ? No. Nobody is disagreeing with Paul.
7. We are accused of despising the mercy of God. If not for God's mercy, nobody would be saved, no matter what they did. Our righteousness is as filthy rags compared to God's holiness, and we need God's mercy for anyone to be saved. The Bible says that the righteous are scarcely saved. The only reason any of us can stand before God is because he looks on the heart, and he knows when we are doing our best to follow the Lord. If we have put our trust in Jesus, and are following him the best we know how, God sees that, and shows us mercy. We don't despise that.
8. Abuse his grace. That one is really funny, because the people going around claiming that we can commit 1000 acts of rape and murder a day without repenting and remain saved are the ones abusing God's grace. The people pushing OSAS are the ones abusing God's grace by preaching what Paul was only accused of saying, that we should sin that grace would abound. When it was said about Paul, it was false, but in the case of the OSAS crowd today, it is largely true.
9. Don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. Another blatantly false accusation.
10. Don't have faith in Jesus. That is really strange, seeing that we are working for him without getting paid. We spend all this time working in a ministry as volunteers for someone we don't believe in?
11. Confusing false converts bad behavior with what Jesus has done. Not hardly. They are two different things.
You will notice that another person who believes in OSAS had an opportunity to discuss it using scriptures, but the moment she realized that she is among people that don't agree with her position, rather than attempting to win people to her side, she starts with the accusations. This should be instructive to everyone who is on the fence. We are perfectly happy to discuss scripture, but those on the other side turn to making accusations. This has been what I have encountered everywhere.
I don't understand the accusations either. I suppose if this is the kind of drivel you hear from the pulpit where you go, you are just repeating it.
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 24, 2020 9:18:44 GMT -5
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
This doesn't even come close to saying our salvation is unconditional. It only says that we are saved by grace through faith, and that is true. You can have all the good works in the world and go to hell if you don't believe in Jesus Christ and accept him as your Lord and Savior.
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 24, 2020 9:23:00 GMT -5
Philippians 1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ."
This is an encouragement to those who are following Jesus. It is not a guarantee that they can never lose salvation.
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 24, 2020 9:35:49 GMT -5
1 John 5:10-13 "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath give to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
This is the second time that a verse was listed twice. I guess it makes it look like they have more than they do.
Verse 13 already came up, and John already dealt with it. This is just saying that those who are followers of Christ have eternal life. When the Bible speaks of believing on him, it is talking about those who are following him, not who are like the devils that believe, but are enemies of Christ. John already pointed out scriptures from this same book that tell us that those who continue in sin don't know God and are of the devil. Let me give you another passage from 1 John 3. Lets look at 1 John 3:1-3, and I will show you the slight of hand the OSAS crowd uses.
"BEHOLD, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."
Did you all get that? EVERY MAN, not just some, that have this hope purifies themselves. What of those who do not purify themselves? That would mean they are not included, because they are not the people being talked about. All the OSAS crowd is doing is taking verses and massaging them to make it appear that they are promoting OSAS, when they are just saying that those who are followers of Christ have eternal life. They are taking the word believe to mean just a casual knowledge, when in reality, it means people that are doers of the word. It means those who are built on a firm foundation, rather than sinking sand.
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Post by frienduff on Jan 24, 2020 10:31:19 GMT -5
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:20-22 Look what else peter reminds the TRUE BELIEVERS . SEEING YOU KNOW THIS ALREADY , aka they knew the way ,and the truth , BEWARE lest you also be taken in with the error of the WICKED AND FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEADFASTNESS . if THIS WAS NOT POSSIBLE , THEN WHY DID PETER WARN ON IT .
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Post by frienduff on Jan 24, 2020 10:35:53 GMT -5
And notice what both paul says to Ephesus and what GOD says to Ephesus . Having damnation , BECAUSE they have LEFT OFF THE FAITH THEY HAD AT FIRST . AKA, they had GOOD FAITH and FELL FROM IT . And now to the church , BUT YOU have LEFT THE FIRST LOVE , RETURN to and do the WORKS YOU HAD AT FIRST or I will PUT OUT your candlestick . IF they did not have the true work at first and never knew him , WHY WOULD GOD TELL THEM TO RETURN TO THAT STATE OF MIND . HE WOULD NOT lead them back to unbelief . It means they really DID HAVE THE PURE True faith and love , BUT were falling away FROM IT and THAT was why GOD said , REPENT OR ELSE . Shows the mercy of GOD , in that HE desires none to perish , so HE WARNED REPENT , but the OR ELSE shows HIS SEVERITY , cause if one repents NOT , THEY GET THE OR ELSE .
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Post by Apostle's Instructions on Jan 28, 2020 4:59:32 GMT -5
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, and unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions. Hebrews 10:26-32
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 29, 2020 10:18:58 GMT -5
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, and unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions. Hebrews 10:26-32
Those who promote unconditional security like to claim that this is only speaking of people that heard the knowledge of the truth and rejected it, but we can clearly see that is not true. These are people that had been sanctified by God, and placed so little importance on the blood covenant that saved them, they did despite unto the Spirit of grace and were guilty of having trodden under foot the Son of God. It also says that they need to call to remembrance their former days, indicating they were backslidden. It is not saying they cannot get right with God, but the original blood atonement has not blotted out their willful sins. They need to repent and turn back to God to be saved again.
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Post by frienduff on Jan 29, 2020 10:24:13 GMT -5
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, and unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions. Hebrews 10:26-32
Those who promote unconditional security like to claim that this is only speaking of people that heard the knowledge of the truth and rejected it, but we can clearly see that is not true. These are people that had been sanctified by God, and placed so little importance on the blood covenant that saved them, they did despite unto the Spirit of grace and were guilty of having trodden under foot the Son of God. It also says that they need to call to remembrance their former days, indicating they were backslidden. It is not saying they cannot get right with God, but the original blood atonement has not blotted out their willful sins. They need to repent and turn back to God to be saved again. exactly spot on right . it shows they were back slidden and now a return to the former , beginning is being reminded .
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Post by frienduff on Jan 30, 2020 10:29:05 GMT -5
remember that faith without works is not true faith , its dead . But also remember this to also fight against the inclusive lie , that works , false love , and the good one can think to do , is dead without FAITH IN WHAT JESUS HAS ALREAY DONE . so faith without works is dead , but works without Faith , confession in JESUS , is but death itself and also awaits the second death . For if a man calls not upon the LORD , that man is not saved . EVEN the man on the cross was sorrowful for his evil and HE KNEW , by GRACE , for that is what grace does , draws us to Christ , HE KNEW to CALL HIM LORD . Exactly .
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gospelguy
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Let’s raise those hands!
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Post by gospelguy on Mar 10, 2020 0:43:03 GMT -5
“I will save to the UTTERMOST All that come to me with Faith in My Son , Jesus Christ.” The biggest Fool on the Planet should be able to figure this verse out.
One small request before I leave you Blind Guides......please grab your Hymnal Books and tear out that beloved song “NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD”....... God gets very angry when you sing songs that you don’t believe.....He calls such phoniness “ hypocrisy”..... now lets all raise those hands! Pfftt......give me a break, Frienduff.....you ain’t nothing but a phony.....you think all this “ super Spiritual-Sounding” Hokum fool’s anybody with a brain?
Excuse me now, as I take my leave from Butero’s Leaven Fun House— The Home Of “ Lucky Repentance” and “ The Accursed Gospel” of “ Do Do this and Don’t Do That” to get Saved and stay saved.Read Hebrews 3 and 4......if you ain’t RESTING in the Gospel Of Grace , you are guilty of “disobedience and unbelief”. Weasel out of those verses, Unbeliever.......
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