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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 20, 2020 20:58:50 GMT -5
I had never heard of anyone wanting the baptism without speaking in tongues, but if you are in that place, why couldn't it happen? Maybe later he will have the faith to speak in tongues and begin doing it? He still could be Spirit filled? We spent too much time on seeking the tongues and not the baptism. The tongues could come later when you believe? It would explain things, but we probably should see if 2fw8212a thinks that is possible?
I do not speak tongues just as you cannot interpret tongues when you hear them.
If you could interpret them you would know how to do it.
In the same way, if I could speak tongues I would know how to do it.
It is like asking someone why they do not start working some miracles.
Working miracles sounds nice, but not every single believer will start doing it (or even willing to do it) anyway.
“Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles?” - 1 Corinthians 12:29
“Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them...” - Romans 12:6
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body...” - 1 Corinthians 12:13
“But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.” - 1 Corinthians 12:31
Blessings!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 7:15:02 GMT -5
When I'm too busy guessing and trying to figure things out it's usually because I am not at rest. We receive the things of the spirit when we are at rest. They are received and not figured out....the scripture says what do we have that we did not receive. It's better to just accept that we do not understand something for a time (and seek and wait patiently until the Lord gives us light) than to cling to a wrong understanding of our own or someone else's making. Once a preconceived wrong understanding takes root in the mind, I have noticed that it blinds us to what is clear in the scripture otherwise, and it's often very difficult to receive correction on it....it just seems to get stuck in there like hook with a barb on it and we are trying to look at scripture through the distorted lens of a wrong understanding instead of letting the word correct and adjust our thinking. We need to be willing to lay down our own understanding and allow the word of God to renew our mind on the thing.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 7:29:47 GMT -5
When I'm too busy guessing and trying to figure things out it's usually because I am not at rest. We receive the things of the spirit when we are at rest. They are received and not figured out....the scripture says what do we have that we did not receive. It's better to just accept that we do not understand something for a time (and seek and wait patiently until the Lord gives us light) than to cling to a wrong understanding of our own or someone else's making. Once a preconceived wrong understanding takes root in the mind, I have noticed that it blinds us to what is clear in the scripture otherwise, and it's often very difficult to receive correction on it....it just seems to get stuck in there like hook with a barb on it and we are trying to look at scripture through the distorted lens of a wrong understanding instead of letting the word correct and adjust our thinking. We need to be willing to lay down our own understanding and allow the word of God to renew our mind on the thing. Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
There is no question that there is a difference between the gift of tongues and prayer tongues. All anyone is trying to figure is whether or not there can be a person who is baptized in the Holy Ghost who didn't speak in tongues because they didn't want to. I can read through Acts and plainly see Spirit filled believers all speaking in tongues, and that this is not the gift of tongues and interpretation.
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Post by solid on Jan 21, 2020 9:01:20 GMT -5
When I'm too busy guessing and trying to figure things out it's usually because I am not at rest. We receive the things of the spirit when we are at rest. They are received and not figured out....the scripture says what do we have that we did not receive. It's better to just accept that we do not understand something for a time (and seek and wait patiently until the Lord gives us light) than to cling to a wrong understanding of our own or someone else's making. Once a preconceived wrong understanding takes root in the mind, I have noticed that it blinds us to what is clear in the scripture otherwise, and it's often very difficult to receive correction on it....it just seems to get stuck in there like hook with a barb on it and we are trying to look at scripture through the distorted lens of a wrong understanding instead of letting the word correct and adjust our thinking. We need to be willing to lay down our own understanding and allow the word of God to renew our mind on the thing. Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
I understand tongues. I just wonder if 2fw can speak in tongues but is afraid or lacks faith to do it?
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 9:05:25 GMT -5
I understand tongues. I just wonder if 2fw can speak in tongues but is afraid or lacks faith to do it? He did give us an answer to that.
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Post by solid on Jan 21, 2020 9:09:10 GMT -5
I understand tongues. I just wonder if 2fw can speak in tongues but is afraid or lacks faith to do it? He did give us an answer to that.
I saw that, but I thought he once said that if we had faith, we could operate in all the gifts. I might have misunderstood him?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 9:09:50 GMT -5
When I'm too busy guessing and trying to figure things out it's usually because I am not at rest. We receive the things of the spirit when we are at rest. They are received and not figured out....the scripture says what do we have that we did not receive. It's better to just accept that we do not understand something for a time (and seek and wait patiently until the Lord gives us light) than to cling to a wrong understanding of our own or someone else's making. Once a preconceived wrong understanding takes root in the mind, I have noticed that it blinds us to what is clear in the scripture otherwise, and it's often very difficult to receive correction on it....it just seems to get stuck in there like hook with a barb on it and we are trying to look at scripture through the distorted lens of a wrong understanding instead of letting the word correct and adjust our thinking. We need to be willing to lay down our own understanding and allow the word of God to renew our mind on the thing. Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
There is no question that there is a difference between the gift of tongues and prayer tongues. All anyone is trying to figure is whether or not there can be a person who is baptized in the Holy Ghost who didn't speak in tongues because they didn't want to. I can read through Acts and plainly see Spirit filled believers all speaking in tongues, and that this is not the gift of tongues and interpretation.
We might be getting our wires crossed. I was just speaking generally in that post. As to what you are saying here, I think we should take God at His word that all the gifts are given severally as the Spirit wills. Amen...there are different kinds of tongues (divers)....some are tongues for the edification of the person's own spirit, and some are prophetic tongues that require an interpreter if anyone is to benefit from it...these are different operations or administrations of the gift of tongues.....but all kinds of tongues are gifts of the Holy Spirit and given as HE wills. 1Co 12:4-11 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 9:13:49 GMT -5
There is no question that there is a difference between the gift of tongues and prayer tongues. All anyone is trying to figure is whether or not there can be a person who is baptized in the Holy Ghost who didn't speak in tongues because they didn't want to. I can read through Acts and plainly see Spirit filled believers all speaking in tongues, and that this is not the gift of tongues and interpretation.
We might be getting our wires crossed. I was just speaking generally in that post. As to what you are saying here, I think we should take God at His word that all the gifts are given severally as the Spirit wills. Amen...there are different kinds of tongues (divers)....some are tongues for the edification of the person's own spirit, and some are prophetic tongues that require an interpreter if anyone is to benefit from it...these are different operations or administrations of the gift of tongues.....but all kinds of tongues are gifts of the Holy Spirit and given as HE wills. 1Co 12:4-11 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. That is true of the gift of tongues, but all who are baptized in the Holy Ghost can pray in tongues.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 21, 2020 9:18:26 GMT -5
...I just wonder if 2fw can speak in tongues but is afraid or lacks faith to do it? I do not want tongues. It is simple.
I do not speak aloud, even when alone, I have different habits.
My thing is inwardly more than outwardly.
It is like asking:
Can someone say a word from the Lord without receiving it?
Obviously not. But they can fake it, but faking it wouldn't make it come to pass.
It is like asking: Can solid speak Thus says the Lord... and start giving a word to us?
If not, why?!
It is the same thing.
You cannot say because you have not received it.
“But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.” - 1 Corinthians 12:11
Blessings!
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 21, 2020 9:22:38 GMT -5
That is true of the gift of tongues, but all who are baptized in the Holy Ghost can pray in tongues.
That is like saying that everyone who is baptized with the Holy Spirit must be equal to me.
And that is not true.
No where in the Bible says that all believers can pray in tongues.
You are just forcing your gifts in others. And that is not how it works.
It is like saying all who are baptized with the Holy Spirit do not do sex anymore just because someone stopped with it after being baptized.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 9:23:21 GMT -5
We might be getting our wires crossed. I was just speaking generally in that post. As to what you are saying here, I think we should take God at His word that all the gifts are given severally as the Spirit wills. Amen...there are different kinds of tongues (divers)....some are tongues for the edification of the person's own spirit, and some are prophetic tongues that require an interpreter if anyone is to benefit from it...these are different operations or administrations of the gift of tongues.....but all kinds of tongues are gifts of the Holy Spirit and given as HE wills. 1Co 12:4-11 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. That is true of the gift of tongues, but all who are baptized in the Holy Ghost can pray in tongues.
All i can do is share my observation that nowhere does it say in scripture that every individual who is baptized in the Holy Spirit receives the gift of tongues. On the contrary the scriptures I just brought and that Letters brought clearly say otherwise. Where it talks about the Holy Spirit falling upon a group, those references are referring to the group as a whole....the scripture testifies that the group prophesied and spoke in tongues....because some individuals in that group were speaking in tongues or prophesying. (Which reminds me of a point I wanted to mention about those references.....we don't say that every individual prophesies when they receive the Holy Spirit, so why do we say that every individual speaks in tongues.)
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 9:25:59 GMT -5
...I just wonder if 2fw can speak in tongues but is afraid or lacks faith to do it? I do not want tongues. It is simple.
I do not speak aloud, even when alone, I have different habits.
My thing is inwardly more than outwardly.
[/b]Blessings![/font][/quote] God won't force you to speak in tongues, at least, in most instances, so to me, this is the answer. You choose not to speak in tongues. God is not denying you.
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 9:28:47 GMT -5
That is true of the gift of tongues, but all who are baptized in the Holy Ghost can pray in tongues.
All i can do is share my observation that nowhere does it say in scripture that every individual who is baptized in the Holy Spirit receives the gift of tongues. On the contrary the scriptures I just brought and that Letters brought clearly say otherwise. Where it talks about the Holy Spirit falling upon a group, those references are referring to the group as a whole....the scripture testifies that the group prophesied and spoke in tongues....because some individuals in that group were speaking in tongues or prophesying. (Which reminds me of a point I wanted to mention about those references.....we don't say that every individual prophesies when they receive the Holy Spirit, so why do we say that every individual speaks in tongues.) You are misinterpreting it. Prayer language tongues is not the gift of tongues, and when people were filled in Acts, they all spoke in tongues, not just a handful.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Jan 21, 2020 9:35:30 GMT -5
When I'm too busy guessing and trying to figure things out it's usually because I am not at rest. We receive the things of the spirit when we are at rest. They are received and not figured out....the scripture says what do we have that we did not receive. It's better to just accept that we do not understand something for a time (and seek and wait patiently until the Lord gives us light) than to cling to a wrong understanding of our own or someone else's making. Once a preconceived wrong understanding takes root in the mind, I have noticed that it blinds us to what is clear in the scripture otherwise, and it's often very difficult to receive correction on it....it just seems to get stuck in there like hook with a barb on it and we are trying to look at scripture through the distorted lens of a wrong understanding instead of letting the word correct and adjust our thinking. We need to be willing to lay down our own understanding and allow the word of God to renew our mind on the thing. Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
This is a good point. There's nothing wrong with saying, "I don't know." For a while. There are a lot of churches that teach that speaking in tongues is THE initial evidence of baptism with the Holy Spirit. I disagree but I would not avoid a church that taught that. I just would not want them to take it to any extremes.
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 9:42:18 GMT -5
When I'm too busy guessing and trying to figure things out it's usually because I am not at rest. We receive the things of the spirit when we are at rest. They are received and not figured out....the scripture says what do we have that we did not receive. It's better to just accept that we do not understand something for a time (and seek and wait patiently until the Lord gives us light) than to cling to a wrong understanding of our own or someone else's making. Once a preconceived wrong understanding takes root in the mind, I have noticed that it blinds us to what is clear in the scripture otherwise, and it's often very difficult to receive correction on it....it just seems to get stuck in there like hook with a barb on it and we are trying to look at scripture through the distorted lens of a wrong understanding instead of letting the word correct and adjust our thinking. We need to be willing to lay down our own understanding and allow the word of God to renew our mind on the thing. Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
This is a good point. There's nothing wrong with saying, "I don't know." For a while. There are a lot of churches that teach that speaking in tongues is THE initial evidence of baptism with the Holy Spirit. I disagree but I would not avoid a church that taught that. I just would not want them to take it to any extremes. I have a thread where I laid out my case that the initial evidence of receiving the baptism in the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues, and I have scripture to support it. I will try to locate it.
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