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Post by Tabitha3319 on Jan 18, 2020 6:07:58 GMT -5
I am on the fence about what speaking in tongues is.
Many people say that speaking in tongues involves known human languages like German or Spanish.
But many Pentecostals and Charismatics disagree.
I feel like there are verses in Scripture that indicate both. But I'm not sure.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jan 18, 2020 8:02:07 GMT -5
tongues can be known languages such as German or Spanish. it can also be unknown such as the language i speak and have long ago given up recording it and sending tapes or files to linguistic experts only to be told its an advanced language but of unknown origin. i know the origin.
keep in mind different religions form because one or a group of people had a revelation and they built on that, and often times they disagree on small things that are not even a salvation issue. people get hung up on it. so there will be disagreements in different churches teachings on topics, tongues being one of the most controversial.
there are verses that indicate both.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 18, 2020 12:17:52 GMT -5
I am on the fence about what speaking in tongues is. Many people say that speaking in tongues involves known human languages like German or Spanish. But many Pentecostals and Charismatics disagree. I feel like there are verses in Scripture that indicate both. But I'm not sure. They indicate both, just as other gifts can be manifested in different ways.
“As each one has received a gift,
minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.” - 1 Peter 4:10
But many people think that baptism with the Holy Spirit is tongues, but tongues is just one of the gifts (that not all will want or receive).
Tongues is not the baptism and baptism can take place without tongues.
“When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God,
saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”” - Acts 11:18
“Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers...” - 1 Corinthians 14:22
And because to speak with tongues is easier than to prophesy.
“I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied...” - 1 Corinthians 14:5
“Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.” - 1 Corinthians 14:39
Actually, speaking with tongues is so easy that anyone could fake it and few would notice,
now if anyone prophesy falsely (not according to Scripture) any believer will be able to spot.
“Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers...” - 1 Corinthians 14:22
“...but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.” - 1 Corinthians 14:22
That is why no one should be welcome into ministry just because they (claim to) speak with tongues.
“Therefore by their fruits you will know them.” - Matthew 7:20
And yes, I believe there are many people who does not have the gift and yet speak with tongues just to be accepted in some way.
They may be genuine believers who have done it in ignorance, others are not believers at all but are tares among the wheat.
Many churches are full of tares because of lack of discernment. Unfortunately.
The baptism with the Holy Spirit brings faith confirming to the person it actually happened.
Then, when someone has been baptized with the Holy Spirit the Lord will make them know somehow.
And for the most part, that faith comes together with the manifestation of the gift of tongues.
Because if it was not so, they would not believe.
I speak this because I have been baptized with the Holy Spirit and I never wished tongues and I did not want it.
And the Lord baptized me anyway.
“Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh. Is there anything too hard for Me?” - Jeremiah 32:27
“...If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.” - Mark 9:23
“...According to your faith let it be to you.” - Matthew 9:29
Blessings!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 13:00:03 GMT -5
I bet there are almost as many diverse testimonies as there are people....in my case when I received tongues it started coming out in many different earthly languages, as I could tell by the accents....Italian, Russian, Chinese, Hebrew, French...etc. After a little while it settled down into what might be a kind of joining together of them all, or at any rate it doesn't seem to be distinguishable as any single earthly language. It even comes out in different kinds of 'character' or qualities sometimes, I think depending on what the Holy Spirit is praying. There can be divers operations and divers operations of the same gift...so not surprising that it may be heard as an understandable human language sometimes, and sometimes only spiritual language.
I think people can sometimes worry too much about receiving fake tongues, etc....scripture says if you ask the Father for the Holy Spirit the Lord will give it to you...if a child asks for bread or fish their father will not give them a stone or a snake. As long as the person is sincere and not seeking to exalt themselves or seeking experiences just for the sake of experiences, etc.
Luk 11:10-13 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
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Post by John on Jan 18, 2020 15:20:36 GMT -5
I am on the fence about what speaking in tongues is. Many people say that speaking in tongues involves known human languages like German or Spanish. But many Pentecostals and Charismatics disagree. I feel like there are verses in Scripture that indicate both. But I'm not sure. They are real languages, but ones we don't know in the natural. It can be tongues of men, but it can also be tongues of angels. When I pray in tongues, I have no idea of what I am saying.
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Post by John on Jan 18, 2020 15:27:09 GMT -5
I need to clear up something 2fw8212a said. I believe that the initial evidence of receiving the baptism in the Holy Ghost is speaking in an unknown tongue. I do not believe that the baptism in the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues. There is a difference. I do see a difference between the tongues we receive when we receive the Baptism in the Holy Ghost and the gift of tongues. I realize that I am in disagreement with 2fw8212a on this, but the main reason I am bringing it up is to straighten out a misunderstanding. This thread is not about the initial evidence of tongues verses the gift of tongues, or if they are the same thing, so lets keep it on topic. It does appear so far that everyone agrees that the tongues are real languages, and that they can be known or unknown.
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Post by John on Jan 18, 2020 15:30:13 GMT -5
I am on the fence about what speaking in tongues is. Many people say that speaking in tongues involves known human languages like German or Spanish. But many Pentecostals and Charismatics disagree. I feel like there are verses in Scripture that indicate both. But I'm not sure. They indicate both, just as other gifts can be manifested in different ways.
“As each one has received a gift,
minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.” - 1 Peter 4:10
But many people think that baptism with the Holy Spirit is tongues, but tongues is just one of the gifts (that not all will want or receive).
Tongues is not the baptism and baptism can take place without tongues.
“When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God,
saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”” - Acts 11:18
“Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers...” - 1 Corinthians 14:22
And because to speak with tongues is easier than to prophesy.
“I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied...” - 1 Corinthians 14:5
“Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.” - 1 Corinthians 14:39
Actually, speaking with tongues is so easy that anyone could fake it and few would notice,
now if anyone prophesy falsely (not according to Scripture) any believer will be able to spot.
“Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers...” - 1 Corinthians 14:22
“...but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.” - 1 Corinthians 14:22
That is why no one should be welcome into ministry just because they (claim to) speak with tongues.
“Therefore by their fruits you will know them.” - Matthew 7:20
And yes, I believe there are many people who does not have the gift and yet speak with tongues just to be accepted in some way.
They may be genuine believers who have done it in ignorance, others are not believers at all but are tares among the wheat.
Many churches are full of tares because of lack of discernment. Unfortunately.
The baptism with the Holy Spirit brings faith confirming to the person it actually happened.
Then, when someone has been baptized with the Holy Spirit the Lord will make them know somehow.
And for the most part, that faith comes together with the manifestation of the gift of tongues.
Because if it was not so, they would not believe.
I speak this because I have been baptized with the Holy Spirit and I never wished tongues and I did not want it.
And the Lord baptized me anyway.
“Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh. Is there anything too hard for Me?” - Jeremiah 32:27
“...If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.” - Mark 9:23
“...According to your faith let it be to you.” - Matthew 9:29
Blessings! I don't agree with you, but I don't want this thread to turn into a fight over whether or not we can have the baptism in the Holy Ghost without speaking in tongues. We had other threads on that, and they turned ugly, with no resolution. I am more than content to leave things with everyone knowing what your position is, and that some disagree, and then stay on topic.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Jan 19, 2020 10:24:29 GMT -5
I lost a long list. That's frustrating. The first time I spoke with tongues was in an Apostolic church service. Because I was only focused on Jesus, I've ruled out the claim that all modern tongues are demonic and unbiblical. I miss the modesty and the worship of that church. You could feel the presence of God when you walked in. However, the pressure to speak in tongues was enormous. You weren't fully saved till you spoke in tongues. You weren't fully worshipping till you spoke in tongues either. I didn't speak in tongues before months of attending. I was skeptical for a long time about whether it's biblical to speak unknown languages. But Paul mentions that specifically in his letters. Despite what the Apostolic Pentecostals taught, I'm inclined to agree with 2fw that not all believers speak in tongues because of these verses. 1 Corinthians 12:27-31 New King James Version (NKJV) 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.
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Post by John on Jan 20, 2020 8:53:52 GMT -5
I lost a long list. That's frustrating. The first time I spoke with tongues was in an Apostolic church service. Because I was only focused on Jesus, I've ruled out the claim that all modern tongues are demonic and unbiblical. I miss the modesty and the worship of that church. You could feel the presence of God when you walked in. However, the pressure to speak in tongues was enormous. You weren't fully saved till you spoke in tongues. You weren't fully worshipping till you spoke in tongues either. I didn't speak in tongues before months of attending. I was skeptical for a long time about whether it's biblical to speak unknown languages. But Paul mentions that specifically in his letters. Despite what the Apostolic Pentecostals taught, I'm inclined to agree with 2fw that not all believers speak in tongues because of these verses. 1 Corinthians 12:27-31 New King James Version (NKJV) 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.
That is speaking of the prophetic gift of tongues. That is different from what those in the upper room experienced. I do noy believe you must speak in tongues to be saved.
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Post by solid on Jan 20, 2020 11:49:12 GMT -5
Maybe 2fw was baptized, and has the ability to pray in tongues, but chooses not to? It does seem to be the Initial sign of the baptism of the Holy Ghost, but what if someone doesn't have the faith to speak it? Maybe they could have still received?
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Post by John on Jan 20, 2020 12:10:36 GMT -5
Maybe 2fw was baptized, and has the ability to pray in tongues, but chooses not to? It does seem to be the Initial sign of the baptism of the Holy Ghost, but what if someone doesn't have the faith to speak it? Maybe they could have still received? In the accounts in the Bible, they spoke in tongues, however, there was no indication that there were any in the crowd that didn't want to speak in tongues, so your question is, could you have this ability, but not have the faith to speak it? I suppose that would be like having the fear it was not real or something like that? I have do admit that this is not something I had considered. We all look for the person to speak in tongues as the evidence, and I know there is a difference in the gift of tongues and praying in tongues, but what of those who wait for months to be able to speak? Could they have already received, but just didn't have the faith to pray in tongues because of some fear? There is nothing in the Bible that says that this couldn't happen, so maybe you are on to something?
2fw8212a is telling us he received the baptism in the Holy Ghost, and God told him that he had been filled, but he doesn't want to speak in tongues. That would mean that he should be able, by faith, to speak in tongues any time he wants to by faith, but he chooses not to. Is that possible? I have been stuck on the arguments he and others made about gift of tongues, which is not the same thing, but having the ability and not choosing to for whatever reason is possible. I don't know of anyone that preaches that or takes that position, but there is no scripture that says it can't happen, so I have to leave the door of possibilities open.
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Post by solid on Jan 20, 2020 12:16:29 GMT -5
I had never heard of anyone wanting the baptism without speaking in tongues, but if you are in that place, why couldn't it happen? Maybe later he will have the faith to speak in tongues and begin doing it? He still could be Spirit filled? We spent too much time on seeking the tongues and not the baptism. The tongues could come later when you believe?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 14:57:10 GMT -5
I had never heard of anyone wanting the baptism without speaking in tongues, but if you are in that place, why couldn't it happen? Maybe later he will have the faith to speak in tongues and begin doing it? He still could be Spirit filled? We spent too much time on seeking the tongues and not the baptism. The tongues could come later when you believe? We ought to be careful of making assumptions about people, especially in a public post, and especially concerning a subject we are not too sure about. 2fw is certainly not lacking in faith....that would be evident to anyone who reads the things he writes.
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Post by solid on Jan 20, 2020 15:39:33 GMT -5
I had never heard of anyone wanting the baptism without speaking in tongues, but if you are in that place, why couldn't it happen? Maybe later he will have the faith to speak in tongues and begin doing it? He still could be Spirit filled? We spent too much time on seeking the tongues and not the baptism. The tongues could come later when you believe? We ought to be careful of making assumptions about people, especially in a public post, and especially concerning a subject we are not too sure about. 2fw is certainly not lacking in faith....that would be evident to anyone who reads the things he writes. I am just guessing. I am not assuming anything.
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Post by John on Jan 20, 2020 16:08:57 GMT -5
I had never heard of anyone wanting the baptism without speaking in tongues, but if you are in that place, why couldn't it happen? Maybe later he will have the faith to speak in tongues and begin doing it? He still could be Spirit filled? We spent too much time on seeking the tongues and not the baptism. The tongues could come later when you believe? It would explain things, but we probably should see if 2fw8212a thinks that is possible?
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