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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 21, 2020 15:29:48 GMT -5
...It's so sad what idiotic and unwise things churches get up to when they are ignorant of the ways of the Lord... Yes.
It is common to see people putting the sound loud and encouraging people to scream so people could receive tongues (which they think is the baptism).
Many people have no idea of what they are seeking or shouting for anyway.
In no where of the Bible people received the baptism with the Holy Spirit because they done all that.
It is just written the Spirit just fell on them and they started to speak with tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
“...Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him.
For the Lord does not see as man sees;
for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.” - 1 Samuel 16:7
In another passage people received it while hearing the Word.
“While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.” - Acts 10:44
“And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished,
as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.” - Acts 10:45
“For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God...” - Acts 10:46
It gives us a clue of what the baptism really is.
But because it was how it happened to them they want people to go through the same ritual.
The Lord confirmed to me I was baptized by His Spirit in a supernatural event that took place in my home.
But my words are considered trash to them anyway as they do not receive my testimony.
But that assurance no one can take from me anyway.
All this can be resumed in this:
“Brethren, do not be children in understanding;
however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.” - 1 Corinthians 14:20
May the Lord have mercy!
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 21, 2020 15:35:27 GMT -5
The scriptures show that people receive the Holy Ghost through the laying on of hands. Simon observed this and desired to buy the ability to do that. How do they do this at your church? See Acts 8:18
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 21, 2020 15:44:05 GMT -5
The scriptures show that people receive the Holy Ghost through the laying on of hands. Simon observed this and desired to buy the ability to do that. How do they do this at your church? See Acts 8:18 It does not matter who lay hands on a person to receive the Holy Spirit...
if God has no place in the heart of that person that will simply not happen.
What Peter said to Simon was just that, the Lord revealed to him that Simon could not receive Him with the state of his heart (unrepentant).
“...Your money perish with you,
because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!” - Acts 8:20
“You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.” - Acts 8:21
“Repent therefore of this your wickedness,
and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.” - Acts 8:22
“For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.” - Acts 8:23
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777
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Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Jan 21, 2020 15:46:55 GMT -5
The scriptures show that people receive the Holy Ghost through the laying on of hands. Simon observed this and desired to buy the ability to do that. How do they do this at your church? See Acts 8:18 It does not matter who lay hands on a person to receive the Holy Spirit...
If God has no place in the heart of that person that will simply not happen.
What the apostle said to Simon was just that, the Lord revealed to him that Simon could not receive Him with the state of his heart (unrepentant).
“You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.” - Acts 8:21
“Repent therefore of this your wickedness,
and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.” - Acts 8:22 Yes, but it was the method the Apostles used successfully. Don't they do that at your church?
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 21, 2020 15:50:07 GMT -5
Yes, but it was the method the Apostles used successfully. Don't they do that at your church? It takes faith to do that.
I never saw anyone doing that successfully at my church.
Blessings!
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 21, 2020 15:51:33 GMT -5
Yes, but it was the method the Apostles used successfully. Don't they do that at your church? It takes faith to do that.
I never saw anyone doing that successfully at my church.
Blessings! I am sorry to hear that. We need God to increase our faith.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 15:58:28 GMT -5
Okay, thanks for clearing up the confusion. As you can tell, that is not what I believe those scriptures are saying and we need our thoughts to be taken captive to the word of God. There is so much error being perpetuated in the churches....it wasn't until the Lord led me out that He began to unveil His word after I shut out every voice but His. Well, isn't that funny, many years ago as a young believer I went to a Pentecostal church for several years and they didn't preach much about spiritual gifts, so I wasn't aware of this belief, I think they tended to want to keep things very conservative, although they seemed to allow the occasional prophetic word to be called out.....but what you are saying makes sense because at one point when I decided to become an "official" member...I was told to go the church one evening and three strange men were there who I had never seen before, who took me alone in a dimly lit room in the back and tried to get me to speak in tongues...I mean they were working so hard and breaking out in a sweat trying to get me to speak in tongues. I had no idea what was going on, I was just so nervous and feeling vulnerable in that situation, in the end they gave up and I was just so glad to get out of there. It's so sad what idiotic and unwise things churches get up to when they are ignorant of the ways of the Lord. And I guess they were so ashamed of the Holy Spirit they preferred to consign Him to a dark little room in the back at night time and frighten a poor gal half to death....I mean, honestly, really? Anyhow that explains why they were insisting so hard that I speak in tongues. Lord knows how I HATE RELIGION, and so does He. Come out of her my people, and then let the Lord get her out of you. I have never heard of any church doing that! In all Pentecostal churches I know of, they just have prayer lines where people are invited to come forward to receive the Holy Ghost baptism. Nothing is done in secret in a back room. They also lay hands on the sick. We are not told to come out from the church, but to come out of the world. Not to come out of "the" church since there is only one church and it is not confined to buildings with four walls....but to come out of the erring churches. Which in this time of the falling away, most of them are erring worse and worse.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 21, 2020 16:01:15 GMT -5
I am sorry to hear that. We need God to increase our faith. I believe laying hands on people to receive the Holy Spirit requires more than faith.
You have to know what you are doing and that people is able to receive Him.
I would just explain with some preaching and then those who are willing will prompt themselves to receive Him.
“...when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that
Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them...” - Acts 8:14
They cannot receive what they do not know. The gospel must be preached first.
“...when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.” - Acts 8:15-16
And only now you can lay hands.
“Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.” - Acts 8:17
Blessings!
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 21, 2020 16:15:34 GMT -5
I am sorry to hear that. We need God to increase our faith. I believe laying hands on people to receive the Holy Spirit requires more than faith.
You have to know what you are doing and that people is able to receive Him.
I would just explain with some preaching and then those who are willing will prompt themselves to receive Him.
“...when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that
Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them...” - Acts 8:14
They cannot receive what they do not know. The gospel must be preached first.
“...when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.” - Acts 8:15-16
And only now you can lay hands.
“Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.” - Acts 8:17
Blessings! Obviously, the Holy Spirit can fall at the preaching of the Word. As it happened here:
“While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.” - Acts 10:44
One of the reasons preaching Truth is important.
But how many people are hearing?
“For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.” - Matthew 13:15
“...will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil,
having been taken captive by him to do his will.” - 2 Timothy 2:25-26
“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins...” - Ephesians 2:1
“in which you once walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience...” - Ephesians 2:2
“In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation;
in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise...” - Ephesians 1:13
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 17:12:31 GMT -5
Okay, thanks for clearing up the confusion. As you can tell, that is not what I believe those scriptures are saying and we need our thoughts to be taken captive to the word of God. There is so much error being perpetuated in the churches....it wasn't until the Lord led me out that He began to unveil His word after I shut out every voice but His. Well, isn't that funny, many years ago as a young believer I went to a Pentecostal church for several years and they didn't preach much about spiritual gifts, so I wasn't aware of this belief, I think they tended to want to keep things very conservative, although they seemed to allow the occasional prophetic word to be called out.....but what you are saying makes sense because at one point when I decided to become an "official" member...I was told to go the church one evening and three strange men were there who I had never seen before, who took me alone in a dimly lit room in the back and tried to get me to speak in tongues...I mean they were working so hard and breaking out in a sweat trying to get me to speak in tongues. I had no idea what was going on, I was just so nervous and feeling vulnerable in that situation, in the end they gave up and I was just so glad to get out of there. It's so sad what idiotic and unwise things churches get up to when they are ignorant of the ways of the Lord. And I guess they were so ashamed of the Holy Spirit they preferred to consign Him to a dark little room in the back at night time and frighten a poor gal half to death....I mean, honestly, really? Anyhow that explains why they were insisting so hard that I speak in tongues. Lord knows how I HATE RELIGION, and so does He. Come out of her my people, and then let the Lord get her out of you. I have never heard of any church doing that! In all Pentecostal churches I know of, they just have prayer lines where people are invited to come forward to receive the Holy Ghost baptism. Nothing is done in secret in a back room. They also lay hands on the sick. We are not told to come out from the church, but to come out of the world. Any church I have been part of did it by invitation after preaching. It was an invitation to be saved, healed, baptized in the Holy Ghost or for those needing prayer for any need.
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Dezi
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Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on Jan 21, 2020 18:45:07 GMT -5
When I'm too busy guessing and trying to figure things out it's usually because I am not at rest. We receive the things of the spirit when we are at rest. They are received and not figured out....the scripture says what do we have that we did not receive. It's better to just accept that we do not understand something for a time (and seek and wait patiently until the Lord gives us light) than to cling to a wrong understanding of our own or someone else's making. Once a preconceived wrong understanding takes root in the mind, I have noticed that it blinds us to what is clear in the scripture otherwise, and it's often very difficult to receive correction on it....it just seems to get stuck in there like hook with a barb on it and we are trying to look at scripture through the distorted lens of a wrong understanding instead of letting the word correct and adjust our thinking. We need to be willing to lay down our own understanding and allow the word of God to renew our mind on the thing. Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
There is no question that there is a difference between the gift of tongues and prayer tongues. All anyone is trying to figure is whether or not there can be a person who is baptized in the Holy Ghost who didn't speak in tongues because they didn't want to. I can read through Acts and plainly see Spirit filled believers all speaking in tongues, and that this is not the gift of tongues and interpretation.
Will you explain to me what is the difference between the gift of tongues and the prayer tongues? I've never heard this and it's confusing me.
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 18:51:32 GMT -5
I found the thread I was talking about, that shows that the initial evidence for receiving the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. You can read it for yourself and make up your own mind.
This one? @dezi, there is a link here that Naomi put in place that will take you to a post I wrote in another thread explaining the difference. Basically, those who receive the Baptism in the Holy Ghost are given a prayer language. The Spirit will pray for us and through us. Every Spirit-filled believer can pray in tongues. This is different from the gift of tongues, which is a prophetic gift only some have. Someone will give out a message in tongues, and then that same person or another is expected to give the interpretation. We don't interpret prayer tongues, as they are personal. They are for our edification, but the gift of tongues is for the edification of the congregation.
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Dezi
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Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on Jan 21, 2020 19:00:03 GMT -5
@dezi, there is a link here that Naomi put in place that will take you to a post I wrote in another thread explaining the difference. Basically, those who receive the Baptism in the Holy Ghost are given a prayer language. The Spirit will pray for us and through us. Every Spirit-filled believer can pray in tongues. This is different from the gift of tongues, which is a prophetic gift only some have. Someone will give out a message in tongues, and then that same person or another is expected to give the interpretation. We don't interpret prayer tongues, as they are personal. They are for our edification, but the gift of tongues is for the edification of the congregation.
Thanks @john... I think I understand now. I had never heard it put that way. I just knew there was tongues and then an interpretation in my own church growing up. I never knew the difference in what that was called.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 20:04:11 GMT -5
What the BIBLE says is that these are different operations/administrations of the same gift called tongues.
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Post by John on Jan 21, 2020 20:06:03 GMT -5
What the BIBLE says is that these are different operations/administrations of the same gift called tongues. No it does not. That is your interpretation, but it doesn't say that.
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