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Post by John on Feb 26, 2020 19:14:20 GMT -5
I want to ask you a couple of questions.
1. What exactly is wrong with a "religious construct?" What does that even mean to you?
2. What is wrong with organized religion? The reason I ask this is because if you have any church, even in your home, and you invite people to come at a certain time, and come up with a Bible Study lesson or sermon, and hymns to sing, you have organized religion.
I do see problems in the majority of churches today. They have gone away from the truth of God's Word, and I do have a problem with the attack on house churches. A house church is 100 percent Biblical. But it seems like we have a war going on between house churches and churches that meet in a building they own. Why? How about we focus on what matters, when they are preaching false doctrine, and stop worrying over where they meet and the name on the building? We are too divided over the wrong things. We have to stand against the all inclusive mess, and we have to stand against those who teach us heresies like OSAS or promote gay marriage and things like that, but to divide over where we meet and what we call the place to me is going way too far.
Departing from the simplicity of Christ brings man's religion rather than the new and living Way that He brought. But I don't really know at this moment how to "explain" the simplicity of Christ. Maybe the Lord will help me with that sometime. The problem to me, is whether we are in the flesh or in the spirit, that's the bottom line......man's 'religion' and religious concepts (constructs) are of the flesh and carnal mind. The flesh wars against the Spirit and the carnal mind is enmity with God.....so that sure is divisive right there without even trying, and why it's so important to grow and learn to be in the Spirit, and also since they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Is teaching that we should follow the teachings of Christ and the Apostles as written walking in the flesh to you?
If you are walking in the Spirit, will the Spirit teach you it is okay to go against the teachings of Christ and the Apostles as written in the New Testament?
Those are two very simple questions to answer. You can do it with a Yes or No.
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Post by Giller on Feb 27, 2020 1:59:25 GMT -5
I guess I will mention just a bit more on the church stuff.
I know all kinds of things have been mentioned.
And in the word there is all kinds of words that is defined, and not all words of course are the same.
Here are three words that I will define:
Church/synagogue/temple
To start off, the word church only appears in the New testament but also the word synagogue.
Now there is one verse in the new testament that uses the word church that I know of, but points to the old covenant, yet being specific in what it is referring to, but I will leave that verse alone in this post.
Right now I just want to get to the specific words which point to the words church, temple, and synagogue.
Word church
Act 2:47 (47) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Now in almost every single new testament verse in regard to the word church, the next Greek word, is what is almost always referred to:
(Strong's concordance)
(G1577 ἐκκλησία ekklēsia ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church. Total KJV occurrences: 115)
But when the word synagogue is mentioned, it is a totally different Greek word mentioned then the word church, in every case.
Word synagogue
Act 18:19 (19) And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.
Now there are a few Greek words for synagogue, but the predominant one, is the one I will mention:
(Strong's concordance)
(G4864 συναγωγή sunagōgē soon-ag-o-gay'
From (the reduplicated form of) G4863; an assemblage of persons; specifically a Jewish “synagogue” (the meeting or the place); by analogy a Christian church: - assembly, congregation, synagogue. Total KJV occurrences: 57)
Now I know that it mentions by analogy a Christian church here which is what some put as an analogy, but the actual meaning is within the words the meeting or place, assembly, congregation.
But by the way Acts 18:19 is mentioned, it seems to more refer to the place, which is were the Jews would assemble.
And it is well known today that when usually the word synagogue is mentioned, it is referring to the place were Jews generally congregate (usually Judaic Jews), which points to the building were they congregate, or have meetings.
But notice that it is not the same Greek word as the word church, so a different Greek word is used for the word church in the bible, and when it refers to a synagogue, it is a completely different Greek word used, so they are not the same.
Now to the word temple.
Word temple
Now of course the word temple is both in the New testament and in the old testament.
Eph 2:20-22 (20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; (21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Here it compares the body of believers as being a building fitly framed together, growing as an holy temple, and we know that a temple is a type of building, and as this building gets fitly framed together it groweth unto an holy temple.
So being a building here, is in conjunction with the word temple, and not church here.
And in this specific case, it is referring us as being the building and temple.
And the predominant new testament Greek word which is within this scripture, is this:
(Strong's concordance)
(G3485 ναός naos nah-os'
From a primary word ναίω naiō (to dwell); a fane, shrine, temple: - shrine, temple. Compare G2411. Total KJV occurrences: 46)
Well we know that the main old testament temple, was a place or building that God had the Israelite's construct, which we can easily see this just by reading the bible.
So we see three different Greek words for three different words.
But now let us see how the word applies these words, for in knowing how the word of God applies them, in this as well, if not more, you can know what the word is meaning by these words.
I will start with the word synagogue.
How the word applies synagogue
Mar 1:29 (29) And forthwith, when they were come out of the synagogue, they entered into the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John.
Mar 3:1 (1) And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.
Luk 4:16 (16) And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk 7:5 (5) For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.
Sounds like a building doesn't it?
For we see people going in and out of synagogues, and the building of one, which shows us that it is referring to a physical building.
And for tonight I think I will end with this, and pick up tomorrow, on how the word applies the words church, and temple, God bless.
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Post by Giller on Feb 27, 2020 2:12:23 GMT -5
There is an easy fix to this, so that we don't cause those who are offended by these words to stumble. Change the sign on the building a congregation owns to say "Church of Jesus Christ Meets Here" instead of "Church of Jesus Christ." Stop having an altar call, and just invite people to the front to pray. If something like this causes a brother or sister to stumble, it's not worth holding onto. Yes, we could do that, and I could stop calling the place where people kneel to pray in the front of the church an altar. I could just call people to the front, if I was Pastor of a physical church, and I suppose I could tell them they can kneel on the padded boards. If it was a matter of not offending someone, sure I could do that. But I really don't want to stop calling the building a church, and I will tell you why.
I do see a church building as a holy place. I see it as a place that is set apart for worship. It is a place we keep clean. That is not to say that we want to allow sin anywhere, but the sanctuary is special to me. We do not have secular music playing there. We do not allow drinking there, even in moderation or watching sports on television. We do not do things that are carnal in nature there. It is set apart for church services.
I have seen the damage that attacking the church building has done over the years. People have promoted the idea that the building is nothing special, and if the congregation wasn't there, it could just as easily be a Moose Lodge. That has led to this come as you are mess, where people come to church with jeans with holes in them, shorts, anything, seeing this place of meeting with God as a group as nothing special at all. I don't want that trend to continue. I do want us to have reverence for the church, and especially the sanctuary. I choose to continue to call this a church, and see it as a place to be respectful of out of fear of God, not because I don't fear God.
So 777, I appreciate what you are suggesting, and it would take away the charge that we are not Biblical in calling the building a church and the front where people pray an altar, but it also leads to things I do not like, this casual attitude about the place of corporate worship of God.
To me whether in a house or building, when we have meetings I take it very seriously, and in truth if someone calls a building a church or not, or a house a church or not, that does not guarantee anything holy will be done in that place. It is not about that, but rather about whether you are allowing the ways of God to have preeminence in a meeting or service or not. And I understand how you would want to make sure things are done decently and in order, and that is what we seek to do at my house. And I agree with buildings or setting aside some place exclusively for worship and so on. I totally get that, but still a building or a house all by themselves guarantees none of that, it is if we are in tune with God's heart and the way he wants us to do things that will bring about what he desires. It says God looks upon the heart and not upon the building.
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Post by Giller on Feb 27, 2020 2:16:40 GMT -5
There are some places who call the church a building all the time, yet do not have much reverence towards God.
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Post by Giller on Feb 27, 2020 3:23:06 GMT -5
We will see that in regards to the words temple and church that the word of God self describes it self.
It mentions the word church in many ways, but yet self describes itself in each case.
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Post by John on Feb 27, 2020 6:23:10 GMT -5
Yes, we could do that, and I could stop calling the place where people kneel to pray in the front of the church an altar. I could just call people to the front, if I was Pastor of a physical church, and I suppose I could tell them they can kneel on the padded boards. If it was a matter of not offending someone, sure I could do that. But I really don't want to stop calling the building a church, and I will tell you why.
I do see a church building as a holy place. I see it as a place that is set apart for worship. It is a place we keep clean. That is not to say that we want to allow sin anywhere, but the sanctuary is special to me. We do not have secular music playing there. We do not allow drinking there, even in moderation or watching sports on television. We do not do things that are carnal in nature there. It is set apart for church services.
I have seen the damage that attacking the church building has done over the years. People have promoted the idea that the building is nothing special, and if the congregation wasn't there, it could just as easily be a Moose Lodge. That has led to this come as you are mess, where people come to church with jeans with holes in them, shorts, anything, seeing this place of meeting with God as a group as nothing special at all. I don't want that trend to continue. I do want us to have reverence for the church, and especially the sanctuary. I choose to continue to call this a church, and see it as a place to be respectful of out of fear of God, not because I don't fear God.
So 777, I appreciate what you are suggesting, and it would take away the charge that we are not Biblical in calling the building a church and the front where people pray an altar, but it also leads to things I do not like, this casual attitude about the place of corporate worship of God.
To me whether in a house or building, when we have meetings I take it very seriously, and in truth if someone calls a building a church or not, or a house a church or not, that does not guarantee anything holy will be done in that place. It is not about that, but rather about whether you are allowing the ways of God to have preeminence in a meeting or service or not. And I understand how you would want to make sure things are done decently and in order, and that is what we seek to do at my house. And I agree with buildings or setting aside some place exclusively for worship and so on. I totally get that, but still a building or a house all by themselves guarantees none of that, it is if we are in tune with God's heart and the way he wants us to do things that will bring about what he desires. It says God looks upon the heart and not upon the building. Of course there are no guarantees. You could have someone defile the sanctuary, but it is easier to control what happens in a designated place of worship. But I get what you are saying.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 7:44:58 GMT -5
Departing from the simplicity of Christ brings man's religion rather than the new and living Way that He brought. But I don't really know at this moment how to "explain" the simplicity of Christ. Maybe the Lord will help me with that sometime. The problem to me, is whether we are in the flesh or in the spirit, that's the bottom line......man's 'religion' and religious concepts (constructs) are of the flesh and carnal mind. The flesh wars against the Spirit and the carnal mind is enmity with God.....so that sure is divisive right there without even trying, and why it's so important to grow and learn to be in the Spirit, and also since they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Is teaching that we should follow the teachings of Christ and the Apostles as written walking in the flesh to you?
If you are walking in the Spirit, will the Spirit teach you it is okay to go against the teachings of Christ and the Apostles as written in the New Testament?
Those are two very simple questions to answer. You can do it with a Yes or No.
Anyone who is sincere in their walk with the Lord will be endeavouring in sincerity by His grace to obey Him....of course. To me that almost goes without saying, though I know reminders are often needful and we are also always seeking to grow and improve our walk. We are to be led by the Spirit and walking in the Spirit, as Paul wrote of, serving in the new way of the Spirit......though it certainly is possible to be obeying scripture in one's own flesh (self-righteousness) and such need to learn the ways of the Spirit. And how is that learned....only one way that I know of...the veil of our flesh must be broken/torn. Who falls on the Rock WILL be broken. But here is a thought that might be new to some of us.....did you know that our relationship with the Lord goes beyond that of master and slave in the new covenant especially.....He is not like some drill sergeant in the sky barking out orders to recruits, the way He sometimes gets portrayed. His speaking to us and relationship with us is not even limited to commands. In Hosea the Lord says you will no longer call me Master, but call me Husband....a picture of someone who has gone from being a slave ordered around to a beloved and cared for bride.....a picture of growing to maturity....weaned from the milk. No more master/slave but husband/wife, a relationship based on love as well as respect. That frightens some people, and I understand and have seen how this analogy gets taken too far by some (flesh again), but as long as we are building ON the foundation of Christ and apostles/prophets, and STAYED upon that Rock, HE does not lead us astray. We do need to be growing: Hos 6:3
Then shall we know, if we FOLLOW on to KNOW the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
And look what happens if we don't grow, what is happening to all those churches in the falling away now: Isa 29:10-13
For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear (worship) toward me is taught by the precept of men (flesh not spirit)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 8:16:39 GMT -5
Yes, we could do that, and I could stop calling the place where people kneel to pray in the front of the church an altar. I could just call people to the front, if I was Pastor of a physical church, and I suppose I could tell them they can kneel on the padded boards. If it was a matter of not offending someone, sure I could do that. But I really don't want to stop calling the building a church, and I will tell you why.
I do see a church building as a holy place. I see it as a place that is set apart for worship. It is a place we keep clean. That is not to say that we want to allow sin anywhere, but the sanctuary is special to me. We do not have secular music playing there. We do not allow drinking there, even in moderation or watching sports on television. We do not do things that are carnal in nature there. It is set apart for church services.
I have seen the damage that attacking the church building has done over the years. People have promoted the idea that the building is nothing special, and if the congregation wasn't there, it could just as easily be a Moose Lodge. That has led to this come as you are mess, where people come to church with jeans with holes in them, shorts, anything, seeing this place of meeting with God as a group as nothing special at all. I don't want that trend to continue. I do want us to have reverence for the church, and especially the sanctuary. I choose to continue to call this a church, and see it as a place to be respectful of out of fear of God, not because I don't fear God.
So 777, I appreciate what you are suggesting, and it would take away the charge that we are not Biblical in calling the building a church and the front where people pray an altar, but it also leads to things I do not like, this casual attitude about the place of corporate worship of God.
To me whether in a house or building, when we have meetings I take it very seriously, and in truth if someone calls a building a church or not, or a house a church or not, that does not guarantee anything holy will be done in that place. It is not about that, but rather about whether you are allowing the ways of God to have preeminence in a meeting or service or not. And I understand how you would want to make sure things are done decently and in order, and that is what we seek to do at my house. And I agree with buildings or setting aside some place exclusively for worship and so on. I totally get that, but still a building or a house all by themselves guarantees none of that, it is if we are in tune with God's heart and the way he wants us to do things that will bring about what he desires. It says God looks upon the heart and not upon the building. Amen. Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building I might be a worse stickler than some because I wonder about whether we should even give a "name" to churches other than the only name under heaven by which man can be saved. To me, when we put a name on something we have sort of automatically separated it from the whole.....and that's really what denominations are all about, as well as that they overemphasize one doctrine over others. I just don't see any churches being given a name in scripture because there is really only one whole invisible church in the spirit....correct me if I'm wrong but churches were only designated according to their location in the bible, that I have found.
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Post by John on Feb 27, 2020 8:19:51 GMT -5
But here is a thought that might be new to some of us.....did you know that our relationship with the Lord goes beyond that of master and slave in the new covenant especially.....He is not like some drill sergeant in the sky barking out orders to recruits, the way He sometimes gets portrayed. His speaking to us and relationship with us is not even limited to commands. In Hosea the Lord says you will no longer call me Master, but call me Husband....a picture of someone who has gone from being a slave ordered around to a beloved and cared for bride.....a picture of growing to maturity....weaned from the milk. No more master/slave but husband/wife, a relationship based on love as well as respect. That frightens some people, and I understand and have seen how this analogy gets taken too far by some (flesh again), but as long as we are building ON the foundation of Christ and apostles/prophets, and STAYED upon that Rock, HE does not lead us astray. We do need to be growing: I am going to deal specifically with comments you just made in this paragraph. You said, "His speaking to us and relationship with us is not even limited to commands." You further state that in Hosea, "the Lord says you will no longer call me Master, but call me Husband." What specific chapter and verse says that? You then say, "No more master/slave but husband/wife, a relationship based on love as well as respect." Again, I need a specific chapter and verse that says what you claim in Hosea. Regardless of that, we are still receiving commandments from Jesus, and Jesus Christ remains our Master and Lord. I can prove that.
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. John 13:13
Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. John 15:14
You reference the husband/wife relationship. The Bible uses Abraham and Sarah as examples to husbands and wives today, and in the example, Sarah calls Abraham Lord.
LIKEWISE, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. 1 Peter 3:1-6
Some people are scared of this truth, because they do not like authority, and choose to live in rebellion and self-will. The simplicity of the gospel of Christ is to simply trust and obey scripture.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 12:06:18 GMT -5
But here is a thought that might be new to some of us.....did you know that our relationship with the Lord goes beyond that of master and slave in the new covenant especially.....He is not like some drill sergeant in the sky barking out orders to recruits, the way He sometimes gets portrayed. His speaking to us and relationship with us is not even limited to commands. In Hosea the Lord says you will no longer call me Master, but call me Husband....a picture of someone who has gone from being a slave ordered around to a beloved and cared for bride.....a picture of growing to maturity....weaned from the milk. No more master/slave but husband/wife, a relationship based on love as well as respect. That frightens some people, and I understand and have seen how this analogy gets taken too far by some (flesh again), but as long as we are building ON the foundation of Christ and apostles/prophets, and STAYED upon that Rock, HE does not lead us astray. We do need to be growing: I am going to deal specifically with comments you just made in this paragraph. You said, "His speaking to us and relationship with us is not even limited to commands." You further state that in Hosea, "the Lord says you will no longer call me Master, but call me Husband." What specific chapter and verse says that? You then say, "No more master/slave but husband/wife, a relationship based on love as well as respect." Again, I need a specific chapter and verse that says what you claim in Hosea. Regardless of that, we are still receiving commandments from Jesus, and Jesus Christ remains our Master and Lord. I can prove that.
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. John 13:13
Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. John 15:14
You reference the husband/wife relationship. The Bible uses Abraham and Sarah as examples to husbands and wives today, and in the example, Sarah calls Abraham Lord.
LIKEWISE, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. 1 Peter 3:1-6
Some people are scared of this truth, because they do not like authority, and choose to live in rebellion and self-will. The simplicity of the gospel of Christ is to simply trust and obey scripture.
Hos 2:14-16 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt. And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali Well you enjoy your meditation on that brother.....I wasn't intending to open up another conversation with you, only wanted to leave that thought for us to think about. Of course Christ is our Head and the husband is the head of the wife....and I do hope you get a hold of what biblical authority means as opposed to worldly authority.
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777
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Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Feb 27, 2020 12:23:26 GMT -5
I am going to deal specifically with comments you just made in this paragraph. You said, "His speaking to us and relationship with us is not even limited to commands." You further state that in Hosea, "the Lord says you will no longer call me Master, but call me Husband." What specific chapter and verse says that? You then say, "No more master/slave but husband/wife, a relationship based on love as well as respect." Again, I need a specific chapter and verse that says what you claim in Hosea. Regardless of that, we are still receiving commandments from Jesus, and Jesus Christ remains our Master and Lord. I can prove that.
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. John 13:13
Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. John 15:14
You reference the husband/wife relationship. The Bible uses Abraham and Sarah as examples to husbands and wives today, and in the example, Sarah calls Abraham Lord.
LIKEWISE, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. 1 Peter 3:1-6
Some people are scared of this truth, because they do not like authority, and choose to live in rebellion and self-will. The simplicity of the gospel of Christ is to simply trust and obey scripture.
Hos 2:14-16 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt. And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali Well you enjoy your meditation on that brother.....I wasn't intending to open up another conversation with you, only wanted to leave that thought for us to think about. Of course Christ is our Head and the husband is the head of the wife....and I do hope you get a hold of what biblical authority means as opposed to worldly authority. Where does that say we won't call Jesus Master anymore and that he won't command us to do things? The New Testament scriptures don't agree with how you are using a passage in Hosea.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Feb 27, 2020 12:31:15 GMT -5
Is teaching that we should follow the teachings of Christ and the Apostles as written walking in the flesh to you?
If you are walking in the Spirit, will the Spirit teach you it is okay to go against the teachings of Christ and the Apostles as written in the New Testament?
Those are two very simple questions to answer. You can do it with a Yes or No.
Anyone who is sincere in their walk with the Lord will be endeavouring in sincerity by His grace to obey Him....of course. To me that almost goes without saying, though I know reminders are often needful and we are also always seeking to grow and improve our walk. We are to be led by the Spirit and walking in the Spirit, as Paul wrote of, serving in the new way of the Spirit......though it certainly is possible to be obeying scripture in one's own flesh (self-righteousness) and such need to learn the ways of the Spirit. And how is that learned....only one way that I know of...the veil of our flesh must be broken/torn. Who falls on the Rock WILL be broken. But here is a thought that might be new to some of us.....did you know that our relationship with the Lord goes beyond that of master and slave in the new covenant especially.....He is not like some drill sergeant in the sky barking out orders to recruits, the way He sometimes gets portrayed. His speaking to us and relationship with us is not even limited to commands. In Hosea the Lord says you will no longer call me Master, but call me Husband....a picture of someone who has gone from being a slave ordered around to a beloved and cared for bride.....a picture of growing to maturity....weaned from the milk. No more master/slave but husband/wife, a relationship based on love as well as respect. That frightens some people, and I understand and have seen how this analogy gets taken too far by some (flesh again), but as long as we are building ON the foundation of Christ and apostles/prophets, and STAYED upon that Rock, HE does not lead us astray. We do need to be growing: Hos 6:3
Then shall we know, if we FOLLOW on to KNOW the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
And look what happens if we don't grow, what is happening to all those churches in the falling away now: Isa 29:10-13
For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear (worship) toward me is taught by the precept of men (flesh not spirit) You have a strange approach to scripture. When others show the plain meaning, you develop doctrines based on concepts. It doesn't come across so much as spiritual, but more like mystical.
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Post by Giller on Feb 27, 2020 12:34:18 GMT -5
How the word applies temple
Well we know that there was a physical temple under the old covenant, and the temple was still up even in the time of the book of Acts, but later destroyed in A.D. 70.
Of course the first temple was destroyed during the time of the exile, and a second one was rebuilt, but this second temple was totally destroyed in A.D. 70.
Now both the temple of old, and synagogues are both a type of building, but a different type of building, for one thing there was only one temple, but there are and were, many synagogues.
Both had some similar functions but not in every way, shape or form, for there was functions in the temple that was not so in synagogues.
And usually a synagogue, especially today, and maybe in a big way back then, pointed to a Judaic Jewish synagogue.
Now the word temple is used a few different ways in the bible, here are some:
Act 2:46 (46) And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Now this temple refers to a physical temple, which points to God's temple which was still up during this time.
Act 19:27 (27) So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.
Now of course this temple was one erected towards another god which was an abomination to God.
Rev 16:17 (17) And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
So we can see also that there is an heavenly temple.
Now this next scripture will be very interesting:
Rev 21:22-23 (22) And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. (23) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
This shall happen after the millennial reign has be done, and a new heaven and earth is created, and the New Jerusalem comes down upon it.
During this time, there shall be no temple in the New Jerusalem, but rather God almighty and the Lamb shall be the temple of it.
Hmmm very interesting.
Concerning today, in regards to temples made with hands, this is what the bible says:
Act 7:47-49 Act 7:47 (47) But Solomon built him an house. (48) Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, (49) Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
We know that under new covenant times, God no longer dwells in temples made with hands, and even when they went to the temple in the book of Acts, God no longer dwelt there, although he did dwell in the believers, and people could have still felt the spirit simply because he dwelt in the believers, and not because he dwelt in the physical temple.
Now who is the temple today?
1Co 6:19 (19) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
Our body is the temple of the Holy Ghost.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 13:34:39 GMT -5
Hos 2:14-16 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt. And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali Well you enjoy your meditation on that brother.....I wasn't intending to open up another conversation with you, only wanted to leave that thought for us to think about. Of course Christ is our Head and the husband is the head of the wife....and I do hope you get a hold of what biblical authority means as opposed to worldly authority. Where does that say we won't call Jesus Master anymore and that he won't command us to do things? The New Testament scriptures don't agree with how you are using a passage in Hosea. The Bridegroom is always the Head of the Bride, however it is an entirely different relationship from that of slavery. Don't forget that all that the husband owns also belongs to his wife.....he is the head but she is the wife of his bosom and partner in life....co-heir with Him and one with Him. It's a love relationship....a wife is much more than just some kind of household appliance or 'employee' (slave). I'm not saying the Lord never gives commands to us, but that our relationship with Him is much more than just the giving and receiving of commands. Our relationship with Him in Christ is a lot more than a drill sergeant/recruit (LAW) kind of relationship. Gal 4:1-7 Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage (slavery) under the elements of the world (flesh and laws). But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Rom 8:14-15 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage (slavery) again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 1Jo 4:16-19 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. We love Him because He first loved us.
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777
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Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Feb 27, 2020 13:54:13 GMT -5
Where does that say we won't call Jesus Master anymore and that he won't command us to do things? The New Testament scriptures don't agree with how you are using a passage in Hosea. The Bridegroom is always the Head of the Bride, however it is an entirely different relationship from that of slavery. Don't forget that all that the husband owns also belongs to his wife.....he is the head but she is the wife of his bosom and partner in life....co-heir with Him and one with Him. It's a love relationship....a wife is much more than just some kind of household appliance or 'employee' (slave). I'm not saying the Lord never gives commands to us, but that our relationship with Him is much more than just the giving and receiving of commands. Our relationship with Him in Christ is a lot more than a drill sergeant/recruit (LAW) kind of relationship. Gal 4:1-7 Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage (slavery) under the elements of the world (flesh and laws). But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Rom 8:14-15 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage (slavery) again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 1Jo 4:16-19 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. We love Him because He first loved us. Well thought out answer.
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