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Post by watchful on Jun 9, 2022 6:40:33 GMT -5
BEHOLD, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Whosoever committeth sin transgesseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Notice that this passage states that sin is the transgression of the law, and those who abide in Christ do not sin. Those who have their hope in Christ purify themselves. Those who are not righteous in their behavior are not of God. This is about things we do and choices we make, and it involves not breaking God's laws. It also speaks to the fact we have a new nature.
Yes.....but if we take that scripture by itself without taking into account other scriptures then we would have to think there is no such thing as falling away. We'd have to agree with those who believe that any believer who commits any sin or falls away was never of God to begin with. It needs to be taken in balance with other scriptures.....eg, where it says in James that "we offend in many ways all"....speaking of believers. And where it says "if we sin we have an Advocate with the Father", again speaking of believers....Jesus ever living to make intercession for us, why, because we always need Him to. There's a difference between willful sins and inadvertent sins. There's a difference between one willful sin and being sorry for it, as opposed to a lifestyle of wilfully sinning without caring. There's also a difference between willful sins and someone struggling with a bondage. There's a difference between those who don't care if they sin and those who hate sin and are sincerely seeking righteousness. Why after having the bath and being every whit clean do believers still need to have our feet washed when they get soiled? What are we believers examining ourselves for when we take communion and RE-member that Jesus died and rose again for the forgiveness and cleansing of our sins? And just to point out that sin is transgression of the Law, yes, but that is not the same thing as being UNDER it. We're to serve in the new way of the SPIRIT not the old way of the letter. Stand fast in our LIBERTY, only use not liberty as an occasion to sin. In my situation I had to claw my way back to the Spirit and liberty in order for that sin not to have dominion over me....bondage no longer there. It might sound like a contradiction (paradox), if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, but it isn't....it's BIBLE, and it worked. Different people might have different situations, which need different solutions and to which the Lord may apply different scriptures...but I just put mine out there in case it helps anyone.
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Post by John on Jun 9, 2022 12:29:15 GMT -5
BEHOLD, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Whosoever committeth sin transgesseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Notice that this passage states that sin is the transgression of the law, and those who abide in Christ do not sin. Those who have their hope in Christ purify themselves. Those who are not righteous in their behavior are not of God. This is about things we do and choices we make, and it involves not breaking God's laws. It also speaks to the fact we have a new nature.
Yes.....but if we take that scripture by itself without taking into account other scriptures then we would have to think there is no such thing as falling away. We'd have to agree with those who believe that any believer who commits any sin or falls away was never of God to begin with. It needs to be taken in balance with other scriptures.....eg, where it says in James that "we offend in many ways all"....speaking of believers. And where it says "if we sin we have an Advocate with the Father", again speaking of believers....Jesus ever living to make intercession for us, why, because we always need Him to. There's a difference between willful sins and inadvertent sins. There's a difference between one willful sin and being sorry for it, as opposed to a lifestyle of wilfully sinning without caring. There's also a difference between willful sins and someone struggling with a bondage. There's a difference between those who don't care if they sin and those who hate sin and are sincerely seeking righteousness. Why after having the bath and being every whit clean do believers still need to have our feet washed when they get soiled? What are we believers examining ourselves for when we take communion and RE-member that Jesus died and rose again for the forgiveness and cleansing of our sins? And just to point out that sin is transgression of the Law, yes, but that is not the same thing as being UNDER it. We're to serve in the new way of the SPIRIT not the old way of the letter. Stand fast in our LIBERTY, only use not liberty as an occasion to sin. In my situation I had to claw my way back to the Spirit and liberty in order for that sin not to have dominion over me....bondage no longer there. It might sound like a contradiction (paradox), if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, but it isn't....it's BIBLE, and it worked. Different people might have different situations, which need different solutions and to which the Lord may apply different scriptures...but I just put mine out there in case it helps anyone. If you are speaking about a personal experience where you were struggling with a sin, but now you are free from it, I cannot see an issue here, so long as the chains were broken in your life. There is a huge difference in a person who inadvertently sins and the person that sins because they just do not care. There is a difference in pre-meditated sins, which the Bible refers to as willful or presumptuous, and mistakes. The point I am making is that the Bible states that a Christian does not continue in a lifestyle of sin, and the Bible defines sin as transgressing God's laws. When the Bible speaks of not being under the letter, it does not mean we do not regard God's laws. It means we are not saved by strict adherence to the law, thinking that alone can save us. Even if we followed it in perfection, we would still need God's grace because we would do things without realizing it in thoughts or for wrong motives at times. There is also the matter of original sin. Trying to be saved by keeping "the letter" without faith in Jesus does kill, but obedience because of faith in Jesus leads to eternal life. That is building our spiritual life on the rock and not the sand.
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Post by watchful on Jun 10, 2022 8:21:06 GMT -5
Yes...by faith, and remembering that faith is not of our own, but is of the Spirit. When we read or hear God's word and laws it is food/strengthening/nourishment/instruction to our spirit, the inner man...it's the ENTRANCE of the word into our heart/spirit that gives light, not just the letter that sticks to our brain (outward man).
All I know is I was living through all those scriptures in Romans about the Law, what was happening with me was proving them to be true. This was happening:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
When I was beating myself up, focusing on the problem and struggling in my own strength it made the situation worse, it's like the chains were just getting tighter and tighter...until I stopped condemning myself, returned to the grace of our Lord and gave the problem over to Him. I deliberately and consciously put it on a back burner and just refused to think about it (you have to be thinking about it in order to be condemning yourself...and our mind of flesh is too weak to battle the law of sin in our members) and kept my eyes and thoughts on Jesus and His mercy instead and looked to Him to deal with it...He was feeding and reminding me on encouraging scriptures about His grace as well. Focusing on Jesus, not the sin.
Until the problem just ceased to exist, the chains were just no longer there, and I found this to be true:
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Best I can explain it, so I'll leave it at that. The Lord is good, praise His name.
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Post by John on Jun 10, 2022 12:41:03 GMT -5
Yes...by faith, and remembering that faith is not of our own, but is of the Spirit. When we read or hear God's word and laws it is food/strengthening/nourishment/instruction to our spirit, the inner man...it's the ENTRANCE of the word into our heart/spirit that gives light, not just the letter that sticks to our brain (outward man). All I know is I was living through all those scriptures in Romans about the Law, what was happening with me was proving them to be true. This was happening: Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. When I was beating myself up, focusing on the problem and struggling in my own strength it made the situation worse, it's like the chains were just getting tighter and tighter...until I stopped condemning myself, returned to the grace of our Lord and gave the problem over to Him. I deliberately and consciously put it on a back burner and just refused to think about it (you have to be thinking about it in order to be condemning yourself...and our mind of flesh is too weak to battle the law of sin in our members) and kept my eyes and thoughts on Jesus and His mercy instead and looked to Him to deal with it...He was feeding and reminding me on encouraging scriptures about His grace as well. Focusing on Jesus, not the sin. Until the problem just ceased to exist, the chains were just no longer there, and I found this to be true: Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Best I can explain it, so I'll leave it at that. The Lord is good, praise His name. Another thing to keep in mind is that often times after we confess our sins to the Lord, and He has forgiven us, that voice of condemnation is demonic spirits accusing us. We are dealing with all types of voices, and often times they are not our mind. Just as the Spirit of God leads us to do right and comforts and teaches us truth, demons condemn us and try to lead us astray. Our mind hears all of these voices and reacts to them. If we are sinning and have not repented, that voice may be the voice of God convicting us to lead us to repentance. We need to look carefully at our situation and determine which is which.
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Post by watchful on Jun 11, 2022 9:30:11 GMT -5
Yes...by faith, and remembering that faith is not of our own, but is of the Spirit. When we read or hear God's word and laws it is food/strengthening/nourishment/instruction to our spirit, the inner man...it's the ENTRANCE of the word into our heart/spirit that gives light, not just the letter that sticks to our brain (outward man). All I know is I was living through all those scriptures in Romans about the Law, what was happening with me was proving them to be true. This was happening: Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. When I was beating myself up, focusing on the problem and struggling in my own strength it made the situation worse, it's like the chains were just getting tighter and tighter...until I stopped condemning myself, returned to the grace of our Lord and gave the problem over to Him. I deliberately and consciously put it on a back burner and just refused to think about it (you have to be thinking about it in order to be condemning yourself...and our mind of flesh is too weak to battle the law of sin in our members) and kept my eyes and thoughts on Jesus and His mercy instead and looked to Him to deal with it...He was feeding and reminding me on encouraging scriptures about His grace as well. Focusing on Jesus, not the sin. Until the problem just ceased to exist, the chains were just no longer there, and I found this to be true: Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Best I can explain it, so I'll leave it at that. The Lord is good, praise His name. Another thing to keep in mind is that often times after we confess our sins to the Lord, and He has forgiven us, that voice of condemnation is demonic spirits accusing us. We are dealing with all types of voices, and often times they are not our mind. Just as the Spirit of God leads us to do right and comforts and teaches us truth, demons condemn us and try to lead us astray. Our mind hears all of these voices and reacts to them. If we are sinning and have not repented, that voice may be the voice of God convicting us to lead us to repentance. We need to look carefully at our situation and determine which is which. Well, condemnation is of the devil and "hath torment", but conviction is of God, His Spirit, and bears the fruit of repentance. Conviction we do seek, because it’s unto life, but condemnation we need to fight against it and neither be ministers of it, because it is a ministry of death and curse of the Law. Some beautiful scriptures the Lord brought to my attention just yesterday: Psa 140:7O GOD the Lord, the strength of my salvation, thou hast covered my head in the day of battle. (with salvation/mercy) Amen! That's the battle I was fighting. Sng 5:6-7I opened to my beloved; but my beloved had withdrawn himself, and was gone: my soul failed when he spake: I sought him, but I could not find him; I called him, but he gave me no answer.The watchmen that went about the city found me, they smote me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took away my veil from me. (veil is head covering) Eph 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of GodHelmet/veil covers the head......with salvation, mercy, the blood of Jesus....the battle is often in the mind because it is enmity with God.
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Post by frienduff on Jun 11, 2022 13:37:17 GMT -5
Take heed unto thyself and unto the docrtrine . Todays church is condemning those who actually are fully persauded to cease sin , as though those are not relying on GOD . Wrong . THEY are . ITS THE SPIRIT ITSELF that is unctioning the lambs to cease the sin , and to exhort one another , and to warn against sin and to correct sin . Today many no longer even know what it means to FOLLOW the SPIRIT . Cause any action on our part is deemed wrong and false . YET again i say ITS THE SPIRIT that even unctions me to make an all out effort to not sin , to avoid evil and to remind others to do the same . THEY ARE DESTROYING the very weapons of the church . NO , more than ever we need to be fully persauded , make an all effort that we are not going to do evil . That we are gonna live holy and heed the Spirit and deny the flesh . Folks act like serious grave reminders are wrong . They even act like correcting another in sin is wrong . YET ITS THE SPIRIT that is doing the work amongst the true lambs that do warn . That do say GO and sin no more , THAT DO say LET IT NOT once be named . THEY follow another spirit . THE ONE which says OH take it easy , LET GO and let GOD , Dont judge dont warn , dont be so serious , dont be grave . RATHER ODD that paul himself wrote to titus and to timothy and another place saying HOW folks , how leaders , how even wives should be AND I SAW the WORD GRAVE in all of it . BE SERIOUS , BE GRAVE , WORK that salvation out , HEED the SPIRIT , FLEE all evil , LET IT NOT once be named . SHOULD BE IN OUR VOCABOLARY YET ITS GONE in todays folks . TAKE HEED unto thyself and the doctrine , OUGHT to be in our speeches . LOOK how serious paul was to the corinthian church about sin . WE have weapons , but if the church wont use them and instead thinks they are judgemental , NO WONDER THE CHURCHES FELL . NO SIRS and NO MAMS . I say DOUBLE DOWN ON ALL BIBLE REMINDERS . {{ LET GO AND LET GOD }} Well if they mean to "Be still and know that I am God" by that, then yes. The bible says the strength of sin is the Law, and that the way to be free of the flesh is by the spirit. Look to Jesus. Where do you get false doctrine from what I'm saying brother? It's God's word. Did you misread my post? It worked for me, thanks be to God. Maybe you have to be delivered from a bondage to understand, I don't know. I wasnt responding to your posts . I was just using the line i have seen many use and yet use it for evil .
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Post by John on Jun 14, 2022 20:13:37 GMT -5
Those who have rejected Jesus are all going to spend eternity in hell unless they repent before they die. There can be no worse fate than that. With that in mind, notice what this passage says from 2 Peter 2:20-22.
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
This is not just speaking of those who heard the way of salvation, but those who were saved. They had escaped the pollutions of the world, but returned to them. This is another proof that just getting in the race is not enough, but we must finish it. If we turn back, our end is worse than if we were never saved, and there is nothing worse than eternity in hell.
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Post by watchful on Jun 18, 2022 7:35:51 GMT -5
That passage is for sure one that proves OSAS can't be accurate, amen.
(I know this is a thread for particularly discussing OSAS, but just want to mention that I hope we will dig into the word and give equal attention sometimes to the falling from grace mentioned in Galations 5:4...it's every bit as much needed in the church. We are always battling the tendencies of the old nature in one way or the other, one way of the flesh is that it wants to be careless about sin and take salvation for granted, while the other way of the flesh wants to rely on our own righteousness. They are both problematic, and the devil tries to get us going and coming. We know that self righteousness isn't "the way of righteousness" spoken of in the 2 Peter 2 scripture.)
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Post by John on Jun 23, 2022 17:19:30 GMT -5
That passage is for sure one that proves OSAS can't be accurate, amen. (I know this is a thread for particularly discussing OSAS, but just want to mention that I hope we will dig into the word and give equal attention sometimes to the falling from grace mentioned in Galations 5:4...it's every bit as much needed in the church. We are always battling the tendencies of the old nature in one way or the other, one way of the flesh is that it wants to be careless about sin and take salvation for granted, while the other way of the flesh wants to rely on our own righteousness. They are both problematic, and the devil tries to get us going and coming. We know that self righteousness isn't "the way of righteousness" spoken of in the 2 Peter 2 scripture.) Perhaps we can start a new thread discussing Galatians in addition to this one.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2022 2:16:02 GMT -5
I wanted to share my thoughts on the OSAS debate.
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Post by watchful on Jun 27, 2022 6:56:44 GMT -5
I wanted to share my thoughts on the OSAS debate.
Enjoyed that God-blessed talk, brother, thanks for sharing it. It seems that everything written in the bible are not sweeping general statements that apply in every situation, so to speak, some of them are aimed at addressing specific situations and that's why they may seem contradictory, so really everything in the bible that seems contradictory may not necessarily even need resolving in a way. Because there is that God's word is a double edge sword and living word (alive and active) that the Lord will apply where and when we need it, depending on our situation and what we're dealing with. For example, some things are for our reassurance and comfort and encouragement when we need it and other things are for warnings when we need that....and sometimes they do seem to contradict each other, but just that there are times when we specifically need reassurance and comfort while other times we may need a warning. And altogether they are all in the background upon our hearts, helping to keep us.
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