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Post by John on Sept 8, 2020 10:57:49 GMT -5
Let us return back to this topic for a moment. We have been told by the Lord that if we deny Him or are ashamed of Him and his sayings, he will deny and be ashamed of us. A Christian most certainly can do that, which means they most certainly can come under condemnation. If they commit these sins, and do not repent, without the Lord standing in the gap for us, we will not make it to heaven. That is just the sad reality of it.
Please define what you mean by condemnation. Hell bound if I do not repent.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 8, 2020 12:16:47 GMT -5
Here is a simple question . Do we think the HOLY GHOST could put such a fear in us , IF We in sin , that we would believe that if we dont cease it we wont inherit the KINGDOM of GOD at our end .
YES IT CAN . CAUSE PAUL SURE WARNED THE CHURCH , BY THE SPIRIT , DONT YE KNOW that those who DO SUCH THINGS WILL NOT inherit the KINGDOM OF GOD , SO DONT be PARTAKERS WITH THEM . OH i know its not daddys love God image i jus said . BUT ITS TRUE none the less . TRUE none the less . SO . WE SEE SIN WE REBUKE IT . ITS DEADLY dangerous and hearts can be hardended due to it .
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Post by frienduff on Sept 8, 2020 12:18:02 GMT -5
Please define what you mean by condemnation. Hell bound if I do not repent. My goodness john , LOOK at what i just wrote . AND I DID NOT read this repsonse first . YOU BET the SPIRIT can put that kind of fear in one . FOR the SPIRIT sure did use paul to warn , CEASE or else . GOD HIMSELF says CEASE , REPENT OR ELSE . I KNOW , its not DADDY GOD SYNDROME . BUT ITS TRUE NONE THE LESS .
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Post by John on Sept 8, 2020 12:27:28 GMT -5
Hell bound if I do not repent. My goodness john , LOOK at what i just wrote . AND I DID NOT read this repsonse first . YOU BET the SPIRIT can put that kind of fear in one . FOR the SPIRIT sure did use paul to warn , CEASE or else . GOD HIMSELF says CEASE , REPENT OR ELSE . I KNOW , its not DADDY GOD SYNDROME . BUT ITS TRUE NONE THE LESS . God put His fear in my heart to a degree like I had never experienced, and that was His mercy. He is calling us to put way our sins. Repent, The Kingdom Of Heaven Is At Hand!
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Post by frienduff on Sept 8, 2020 12:41:00 GMT -5
My goodness john , LOOK at what i just wrote . AND I DID NOT read this repsonse first . YOU BET the SPIRIT can put that kind of fear in one . FOR the SPIRIT sure did use paul to warn , CEASE or else . GOD HIMSELF says CEASE , REPENT OR ELSE . I KNOW , its not DADDY GOD SYNDROME . BUT ITS TRUE NONE THE LESS . God put His fear in my heart to a degree like I had never experienced, and that was His mercy. He is calling us to put way our sins. Repent, The Kingdom Of Heaven Is At Hand!
THATS THE BEAUTY OF IT ALL . IT IS MERCY FROM GOD to WARN US LIKE THAT . imagine if HE just left us to die in our errors and cast us to HELL FIRE . But MOST all folks , DONT LIKE that direct approach , they like the DADDY GOD appraoch that no matter if we sin , OH WE GOT OUR DADDY , HE KNOWS HE UNDERSTANDS . HE IS LOVE . what a nightmare of delusoin this generation has fallen for . ITS a ruse , a fallacy , a falsehood , not true , not truth , error , and etc . i NEVER Seen JESUS tell those desciples , OH its okay the pharisees didnt HEAR ME , MY DADDY GOD LOVES THEM , GIVE THEM SOME TIME , MAYBE LOVE THEM TO GOD . WRONG again . JESUS flat out told truth and whoever recieved it amen . Who ever rejected truth . WELL , lets see what JESUS has to say about that . BUT LORD , LORD do you not realize that this saying offended them . Notice several things here . JESUS had said a saying that offended the heck out of the pharisees . AND NOW HIS desciples were coming to HIM to try and let him know . LORD , you just offended them . NOTICE JESUS does not have PETER and them return to them and ASK THEM , Welll what would GET YOU to come to me , LIKE THAT SATANIC seeker friendly did . NOPE , NOW BRACE YOURSELVES EVERYONE . I AM GOING to type out the response of JESUS . BEFORE I DO . I want everyone to be seated in chairs . Make sure their are pillows around you , IN CASE YA FAINT . CAUSE WE BEEN LIED TO BY MEN for way too long . SO lets hear the response of JESUS . LET THEM BE , EVERY PLANT that MY FATHER HAS NOT PLANTED , WILL BE ROOTED UP . That dont sound like daddy love god to me man . EITHER WE LOVE HIM and ARE HIS or expect to hear . I NEVER KNEW YOU . JESUS healed , HE EVEN DIED for the sins of the world . BUT HE WONT BE DENIED EITHER . and we also DENY HIM , if we are hearers BUT NO DOERS of THE WORD . GOTTA keep it real and i gotta keep it serious . And if anyone is listening to these men who have enough jel in their hair to trap a german shepard , yet NO DOCTRINE and just elegant words and twistings FLEE THEM MEN OF BELIAL and DO IT TODAY . NEVER LOOK back .
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Post by watchful on Sept 8, 2020 13:13:29 GMT -5
God put His fear in my heart to a degree like I had never experienced, and that was His mercy. He is calling us to put way our sins. Repent, The Kingdom Of Heaven Is At Hand!
THATS THE BEAUTY OF IT ALL . IT IS MERCY FROM GOD to WARN US LIKE THAT . imagine if HE just left us to die in our errors and cast us to HELL FIRE . But MOST all folks , DONT LIKE that direct approach , they like the DADDY GOD appraoch that no matter if we sin , OH WE GOT OUR DADDY , HE KNOWS HE UNDERSTANDS . HE IS LOVE . what a nightmare of delusoin this generation has fallen for . ITS a ruse , a fallacy , a falsehood , not true , not truth , error , and etc . i NEVER Seen JESUS tell those desciples , OH its okay the pharisees didnt HEAR ME , MY DADDY GOD LOVES THEM , GIVE THEM SOME TIME , MAYBE LOVE THEM TO GOD . WRONG again . JESUS flat out told truth and whoever recieved it amen . Who ever rejected truth . WELL , lets see what JESUS has to say about that . BUT LORD , LORD do you not realize that this saying offended them . Notice several things here . JESUS had said a saying that offended the heck out of the pharisees . AND NOW HIS desciples were coming to HIM to try and let him know . LORD , you just offended them . NOTICE JESUS does not have PETER and them return to them and ASK THEM , Welll what would GET YOU to come to me , LIKE THAT SATANIC seeker friendly did . NOPE , NOW BRACE YOURSELVES EVERYONE . I AM GOING to type out the response of JESUS . BEFORE I DO . I want everyone to be seated in chairs . Make sure their are pillows around you , IN CASE YA FAINT . CAUSE WE BEEN LIED TO BY MEN for way too long . SO lets hear the response of JESUS . LET THEM BE , EVERY PLANT that MY FATHER HAS NOT PLANTED , WILL BE ROOTED UP . That dont sound like daddy love god to me man . EITHER WE LOVE HIM and ARE HIS or expect to hear . I NEVER KNEW YOU . JESUS healed , HE EVEN DIED for the sins of the world . BUT HE WONT BE DENIED EITHER . and we also DENY HIM , if we are hearers BUT NO DOERS of THE WORD . GOTTA keep it real and i gotta keep it serious . And if anyone is listening to these men who have enough jel in their hair to trap a german shepard , yet NO DOCTRINE and just elegant words and twistings FLEE THEM MEN OF BELIAL and DO IT TODAY . NEVER LOOK back . Nobody here is talking about "Daddy God love" in that vein though brother. Some of us are just saying that He doesn't condemn and cast off His child for having faults or shortcomings that they are battling to overcome, and I absolutely denounce any doctrine that says otherwise. Not to mention faults and shortcomings and sins that we aren't even aware of. He is longsuffering and He chastises and disciplines who He loves as sons...that is bible truth. Not casts off, not takes His Spirit away so that they are lost....but He disciplines us for our good, to help us overcome and increase in Godliness. And who is without chastisement is an illegitimate child. His righteousness has been imputed to us....and blessed is the one whose sins the Lord does not count against him. We are to hold on to our confidence until the end. God forbid that we should shipwreck anyone's faith and confidence in their salvation, my, my. But does His longsuffering and grace mean we can go and live like the devil with reckless abandon, wilfully and on purpose?....of course not, we are to run the race so as to win it, with sincerity, wholeheartedly....sow to the Spirit and reap eternal life, sow to the flesh and reap destruction. But IF we sin in spite of ourselves, we have an Advocate and Intercessor. Peter was not condemned and cast off by the Father, for bumping up against a weakness that he didn't even know he had until then......no way, no how, not for a minute. And here I plant my Ebenezer, as the song says. But the danger was that Peter himself would condemn himself and think himself condemned, thus losing his faith and confidence in his salvation.....that is why Jesus prayed that his faith not fail, and so it didn't. 1Jo 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Post by John on Sept 8, 2020 13:32:51 GMT -5
There is one thing that you said frienduff , that I know to be true. We have been lied to. We have been lied to by men and women. We have been lied to by demonic spirits. We have been lied to by our imaginations and intellect.
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Post by watchful on Sept 8, 2020 13:33:56 GMT -5
When I have been committing willful sins, I felt condemnation. It is not like the blood covering makes it impossible for God to see wrong doing in His children. He sees everything we say and do. Ananias and Sapphira committed a single sin, and that led to them being in this world one moment and in hell the next. This may not be how you mean it, but what you are saying sounds an awful lot like the kind of things I hear from OSAS believers. Maybe you can explain how what you are saying differs? Do you believe there is a point where a Christian can come into condemnation if they return back into committing willful sins?
I see things more like the situation with a loving parent and disobedience. Yes, I have disobeyed, I am wrong, my conscience is bothering me, I have to repent and deal with the consequences of the disobedience. But through it all, I know my parent loves me and is disciplining me for my own good, and is ready to forgive me afterwards. Amen, and that is certainly scriptural......He chastises who He loves as sons, His children. If a believer is cast off for committing one sin, or having one fault, like when Peter denied Jesus, the Father wouldn't be chastising and disciplining them to produce the fruit of righteousness, they would no longer be His child/son to discipline in that case. With regard to denying Him, Jesus was talking about denying such to the Father at the judgment, not on the spot......someone who would persist in denying Jesus and not care about overcoming their weakness and doing right. Same with the Father not forgiving those who don't forgive those who sin against them....it has to be talking about this happening at the judgment, not on the spot.
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Post by John on Sept 8, 2020 13:49:34 GMT -5
THATS THE BEAUTY OF IT ALL . IT IS MERCY FROM GOD to WARN US LIKE THAT . imagine if HE just left us to die in our errors and cast us to HELL FIRE . But MOST all folks , DONT LIKE that direct approach , they like the DADDY GOD appraoch that no matter if we sin , OH WE GOT OUR DADDY , HE KNOWS HE UNDERSTANDS . HE IS LOVE . what a nightmare of delusoin this generation has fallen for . ITS a ruse , a fallacy , a falsehood , not true , not truth , error , and etc . i NEVER Seen JESUS tell those desciples , OH its okay the pharisees didnt HEAR ME , MY DADDY GOD LOVES THEM , GIVE THEM SOME TIME , MAYBE LOVE THEM TO GOD . WRONG again . JESUS flat out told truth and whoever recieved it amen . Who ever rejected truth . WELL , lets see what JESUS has to say about that . BUT LORD , LORD do you not realize that this saying offended them . Notice several things here . JESUS had said a saying that offended the heck out of the pharisees . AND NOW HIS desciples were coming to HIM to try and let him know . LORD , you just offended them . NOTICE JESUS does not have PETER and them return to them and ASK THEM , Welll what would GET YOU to come to me , LIKE THAT SATANIC seeker friendly did . NOPE , NOW BRACE YOURSELVES EVERYONE . I AM GOING to type out the response of JESUS . BEFORE I DO . I want everyone to be seated in chairs . Make sure their are pillows around you , IN CASE YA FAINT . CAUSE WE BEEN LIED TO BY MEN for way too long . SO lets hear the response of JESUS . LET THEM BE , EVERY PLANT that MY FATHER HAS NOT PLANTED , WILL BE ROOTED UP . That dont sound like daddy love god to me man . EITHER WE LOVE HIM and ARE HIS or expect to hear . I NEVER KNEW YOU . JESUS healed , HE EVEN DIED for the sins of the world . BUT HE WONT BE DENIED EITHER . and we also DENY HIM , if we are hearers BUT NO DOERS of THE WORD . GOTTA keep it real and i gotta keep it serious . And if anyone is listening to these men who have enough jel in their hair to trap a german shepard , yet NO DOCTRINE and just elegant words and twistings FLEE THEM MEN OF BELIAL and DO IT TODAY . NEVER LOOK back . Nobody here is talking about "Daddy God love" in that vein though brother. Some of us are just saying that He doesn't condemn and cast off His child for having faults or shortcomings that they are battling to overcome, and I absolutely denounce any doctrine that says otherwise. Not to mention faults and shortcomings and sins that we aren't even aware of. He is longsuffering and He chastises and disciplines who He loves as sons...that is bible truth. Not casts off, not takes His Spirit away so that they are lost....but He disciplines us for our good, to help us overcome and increase in Godliness. And who is without chastisement is an illegitimate child. His righteousness has been imputed to us....and blessed is the one whose sins the Lord does not count against him. We are to hold on to our confidence until the end. God forbid that we should shipwreck anyone's faith and confidence in their salvation, my, my. But does His longsuffering and grace mean we can go and live like the devil with reckless abandon, wilfully and on purpose?....of course not, we are to run the race so as to win it, with sincerity, wholeheartedly....sow to the Spirit and reap eternal life, sow to the flesh and reap destruction. But IF we sin in spite of ourselves, we have an Advocate and Intercessor. Peter was not condemned and cast off by the Father, for bumping up against a weakness that he didn't even know he had until then......no way, no how, not for a minute. And here I plant my Ebenezer, as the song says. But the danger was that Peter himself would condemn himself and think himself condemned, thus losing his faith and confidence in his salvation.....that is why Jesus prayed that his faith not fail, and so it didn't. 1Jo 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Most everything you posted here are nothing but personal opinions. You have no scripture to show Peter was not cast off during that time where he denied the Lord. You have no Biblical proof as to what situations may occur where God will or will not cast away one of his children. All judgement has been left to Jesus. The scripture you quoted about blessed are those whose sins are not imputed to them does not mean a person can continue in willful sins and they will not be imputed to them. That scripture has been twisted in knots by the OSAS believers to mean something it does not. Peter came back to the faith, but according to Jesus' own teachings, Peter would have been denied by the Lord had he died without repenting. It is Jesus' word against yours. I will take the word of Jesus.
By the way, we have already addressed the difference between willful sins and sins done in error, where we did not realize we sinned. Romans chapter 10 makes a distinction in the two kinds of sins. The Old Testament makes a similar distinction calling sins done on purpose presumptuous sins. The problem you face here is that nearly everything you said is just opinions, but you state them as fact. In the instances you quote scripture, they do not prove you correct.
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Post by John on Sept 8, 2020 13:51:19 GMT -5
I see things more like the situation with a loving parent and disobedience. Yes, I have disobeyed, I am wrong, my conscience is bothering me, I have to repent and deal with the consequences of the disobedience. But through it all, I know my parent loves me and is disciplining me for my own good, and is ready to forgive me afterwards. Amen, and that is certainly scriptural......He chastises who He loves as sons, His children. If a believer is cast off for committing one sin, or having one fault, like when Peter denied Jesus, the Father wouldn't be chastising and disciplining them to produce the fruit of righteousness, they would no longer be His child/son to discipline in that case. With regard to denying Him, Jesus was talking about denying such to the Father at the judgment, not on the spot......someone who would persist in denying Jesus and not care about overcoming their weakness and doing right. Same with the Father not forgiving those who don't forgive those who sin against them....it has to be talking about this happening at the judgment, not on the spot. You cannot prove anything you said using scripture. He does chastise his children, to get them back in line so they will not be lost. You have no proof that he will not cast someone away because he is chastising them.
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Post by John on Sept 8, 2020 13:56:33 GMT -5
watchful , what is the difference between what you are saying and OSAS?
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Post by bethany on Sept 8, 2020 14:13:13 GMT -5
It seems to me that anything watchful or I say is being treated like a witch-hunt for an tiny miniscule possible way it can be twisted to make it sound like we are supporting OSAS.
Nuanced conversation is not possible, outright denial of supporting OSAS is not believed.
I don't see any way this conversation can progress.
Can no-one understand the difference between daily mercies and unforgivable sin leading to casting out?
There are incidents not specified in scripture, but the principles are clear throughout the Bible.
I know, truly KNOW my posts are scriptural and abide by scriptural principles. They are not mere opinions. You are wrong.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 8, 2020 14:13:45 GMT -5
THATS THE BEAUTY OF IT ALL . IT IS MERCY FROM GOD to WARN US LIKE THAT . imagine if HE just left us to die in our errors and cast us to HELL FIRE . But MOST all folks , DONT LIKE that direct approach , they like the DADDY GOD appraoch that no matter if we sin , OH WE GOT OUR DADDY , HE KNOWS HE UNDERSTANDS . HE IS LOVE . what a nightmare of delusoin this generation has fallen for . ITS a ruse , a fallacy , a falsehood , not true , not truth , error , and etc . i NEVER Seen JESUS tell those desciples , OH its okay the pharisees didnt HEAR ME , MY DADDY GOD LOVES THEM , GIVE THEM SOME TIME , MAYBE LOVE THEM TO GOD . WRONG again . JESUS flat out told truth and whoever recieved it amen . Who ever rejected truth . WELL , lets see what JESUS has to say about that . BUT LORD , LORD do you not realize that this saying offended them . Notice several things here . JESUS had said a saying that offended the heck out of the pharisees . AND NOW HIS desciples were coming to HIM to try and let him know . LORD , you just offended them . NOTICE JESUS does not have PETER and them return to them and ASK THEM , Welll what would GET YOU to come to me , LIKE THAT SATANIC seeker friendly did . NOPE , NOW BRACE YOURSELVES EVERYONE . I AM GOING to type out the response of JESUS . BEFORE I DO . I want everyone to be seated in chairs . Make sure their are pillows around you , IN CASE YA FAINT . CAUSE WE BEEN LIED TO BY MEN for way too long . SO lets hear the response of JESUS . LET THEM BE , EVERY PLANT that MY FATHER HAS NOT PLANTED , WILL BE ROOTED UP . That dont sound like daddy love god to me man . EITHER WE LOVE HIM and ARE HIS or expect to hear . I NEVER KNEW YOU . JESUS healed , HE EVEN DIED for the sins of the world . BUT HE WONT BE DENIED EITHER . and we also DENY HIM , if we are hearers BUT NO DOERS of THE WORD . GOTTA keep it real and i gotta keep it serious . And if anyone is listening to these men who have enough jel in their hair to trap a german shepard , yet NO DOCTRINE and just elegant words and twistings FLEE THEM MEN OF BELIAL and DO IT TODAY . NEVER LOOK back . Nobody here is talking about "Daddy God love" in that vein though brother. Some of us are just saying that He doesn't condemn and cast off His child for having faults or shortcomings that they are battling to overcome, and I absolutely denounce any doctrine that says otherwise. Not to mention faults and shortcomings and sins that we aren't even aware of. He is longsuffering and He chastises and disciplines who He loves as sons...that is bible truth. Not casts off, not takes His Spirit away so that they are lost....but He disciplines us for our good, to help us overcome and increase in Godliness. And who is without chastisement is an illegitimate child. His righteousness has been imputed to us....and blessed is the one whose sins the Lord does not count against him. We are to hold on to our confidence until the end. God forbid that we should shipwreck anyone's faith and confidence in their salvation, my, my. But does His longsuffering and grace mean we can go and live like the devil with reckless abandon, wilfully and on purpose?....of course not, we are to run the race so as to win it, with sincerity, wholeheartedly....sow to the Spirit and reap eternal life, sow to the flesh and reap destruction. But IF we sin in spite of ourselves, we have an Advocate and Intercessor. Peter was not condemned and cast off by the Father, for bumping up against a weakness that he didn't even know he had until then......no way, no how, not for a minute. And here I plant my Ebenezer, as the song says. But the danger was that Peter himself would condemn himself and think himself condemned, thus losing his faith and confidence in his salvation.....that is why Jesus prayed that his faith not fail, and so it didn't. 1Jo 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Sister you have known me for how long again . Let me pet those hackles back in place . ITS GENERAL WARNINGS i often give . But , ye took it pursonel . sorry for the pronounication of personal . BUT NOPE . WE SEE SIN WE WARN ASAP AGAINST IT . Grave , deadly , serious danger sin is . Be encouraged . Sis , you knowed me for years . Okay , let me rewrite that . You have known me for years . have i ever changed for man . You be encouraged . the warnings remain and the seriousness remains . NO COMFORT will i ever allow a soul to have if they are in sin . SERIOUS it must be . Be encouraged . Do praise the LORD
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Post by frienduff on Sept 8, 2020 14:15:47 GMT -5
It seems to me that anything watchful or I say is being treated like a witch-hunt for an tiny miniscule possible way it can be twisted to make it sound like we are supporting OSAS. Nuanced conversation is not possible, outright denial of supporting OSAS is not believed. I don't see any way this conversation can progress. Can no-one understand the difference between daily mercies and unforgivable sin leading to casting out? There are incidents not specified in scripture, but the principles are clear throughout the Bible. I know, truly KNOW my posts are scriptural and abide by scriptural principles. They are not mere opinions. You are wrong. By who . i happen to know your name has never once been mentioned . And i dont attack my sister watchful . I , and even john , cletus , giller and all who draws breath here , WILL tell you all , I have fought for sister watchful , behind the scenes . I aint half as evil as i seem to be to most folks . BUT , do let me know who is attacking you . SO i can speak to them also behind the scenes in private .
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Post by John on Sept 8, 2020 14:17:21 GMT -5
It seems to me that anything watchful or I say is being treated like a witch-hunt for an tiny miniscule possible way it can be twisted to make it sound like we are supporting OSAS. Nuanced conversation is not possible, outright denial of supporting OSAS is not believed. I don't see any way this conversation can progress. Can no-one understand the difference between daily mercies and unforgivable sin leading to casting out? There are incidents not specified in scripture, but the principles are clear throughout the Bible. I know, truly KNOW my posts are scriptural and abide by scriptural principles. They are not mere opinions. You are wrong. I know that what Watchful said was opinions. That is who I was addressing. I never said anything about you personally. In addition, I asked Watchful what the difference is between what she said and OSAS? Is there a point where sin will be imputed to a son or daughter? Is there a place and time when mercy runs out? Is there a time where we are dealing with more than chastisement and a person loses salvation? I am waiting till she answers to make any judgements on whether or not she is preaching OSAS or not. I have not said that she is, but it sounds a lot like it. I am hearing the exact same arguments.
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