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Post by frienduff on Sept 8, 2020 14:23:12 GMT -5
There is one thing that you said frienduff , that I know to be true. We have been lied to. We have been lied to by men and women. We have been lied to by demonic spirits. We have been lied to by our imaginations and intellect.
That is the beauty of it . i aint even a tenth as evil as most folks think i am . ER time i turn around i get misunderstood . BUT the beauty is , PLANT THOSE faces IN BIBLES . And see how fast we come into agreement . i aint the hater so many think . read those bibles . read them . BE GLUED IN THEM FOR HOURS upon HOURS daily . Then may we all speak . At that time and that day , folks will be like , man frienduff i had you pegged so wrong . YEP . NOW OPEN BIBLES everyone and stop following satanic men of belial . PS , this was a general reminder to all . Not against you john or anyone . OPEN BIBLES PEOPLE . I DARE US to do it . AND stop listening to your favorite men . JUST Open and read bibles . AND as i said , soon enough we would be in full agreement on many things . BUT I shun false doctrine to hell . AND i will DIE before i STOP doing so . I know , i am probably responsible for almost every single person who has run from narrow way . But you all know i aint changing . I AM Sorrowful for many . I am . I dont want folks to run away . But i aint gonna pander my message to keep one soul . EITHER WE LOVE TRUTH , or we DONT KNOW GOD .
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Post by watchful on Sept 8, 2020 14:38:33 GMT -5
There is one thing that you said frienduff , that I know to be true. We have been lied to. We have been lied to by men and women. We have been lied to by demonic spirits. We have been lied to by our imaginations and intellect. Yes we have. But if we keep walking in a spirit of suspicion and fear we will err on the other side. Not accusing, just saying.
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Post by John on Sept 8, 2020 14:52:47 GMT -5
There is one thing that you said frienduff , that I know to be true. We have been lied to. We have been lied to by men and women. We have been lied to by demonic spirits. We have been lied to by our imaginations and intellect. Yes we have. But if we keep walking in a spirit of suspicion and fear we will err on the other side. Not accusing, just saying. This is not about suspicion, but about what I read that you posted. What is the difference between what you are saying and OSAS? Is there a point where God's mercy runs out on his children, and if so, when? At what point does chastisement cease, and loss of salvation occur? Is that even possible the way you believe scripture?
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Post by watchful on Sept 8, 2020 14:58:45 GMT -5
Nobody here is talking about "Daddy God love" in that vein though brother. Some of us are just saying that He doesn't condemn and cast off His child for having faults or shortcomings that they are battling to overcome, and I absolutely denounce any doctrine that says otherwise. Not to mention faults and shortcomings and sins that we aren't even aware of. He is longsuffering and He chastises and disciplines who He loves as sons...that is bible truth. Not casts off, not takes His Spirit away so that they are lost....but He disciplines us for our good, to help us overcome and increase in Godliness. And who is without chastisement is an illegitimate child. His righteousness has been imputed to us....and blessed is the one whose sins the Lord does not count against him. We are to hold on to our confidence until the end. God forbid that we should shipwreck anyone's faith and confidence in their salvation, my, my. But does His longsuffering and grace mean we can go and live like the devil with reckless abandon, wilfully and on purpose?....of course not, we are to run the race so as to win it, with sincerity, wholeheartedly....sow to the Spirit and reap eternal life, sow to the flesh and reap destruction. But IF we sin in spite of ourselves, we have an Advocate and Intercessor. Peter was not condemned and cast off by the Father, for bumping up against a weakness that he didn't even know he had until then......no way, no how, not for a minute. And here I plant my Ebenezer, as the song says. But the danger was that Peter himself would condemn himself and think himself condemned, thus losing his faith and confidence in his salvation.....that is why Jesus prayed that his faith not fail, and so it didn't. 1Jo 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Most everything you posted here are nothing but personal opinions. You have no scripture to show Peter was not cast off during that time where he denied the Lord. You have no Biblical proof as to what situations may occur where God will or will not cast away one of his children. All judgement has been left to Jesus. The scripture you quoted about blessed are those whose sins are not imputed to them does not mean a person can continue in willful sins and they will not be imputed to them. That scripture has been twisted in knots by the OSAS believers to mean something it does not. Peter came back to the faith, but according to Jesus' own teachings, Peter would have been denied by the Lord had he died without repenting. It is Jesus' word against yours. I will take the word of Jesus.
By the way, we have already addressed the difference between willful sins and sins done in error, where we did not realize we sinned. Romans chapter 10 makes a distinction in the two kinds of sins. The Old Testament makes a similar distinction calling sins done on purpose presumptuous sins. The problem you face here is that nearly everything you said is just opinions, but you state them as fact. In the instances you quote scripture, they do not prove you correct.
Pardon me for saying, dear brother, but I haven't seen any biblical proof presented that proves Peter was cast off and lost. It's dangerous ground to establish doctrine on the basis of one scripture....we need two or three witnesses....as well as the whole counsel of God. I beg you to reconsider that part. Of course if anyone PERSISTS in sin they are in danger of being cast off, their hearts may harden, their conscience may become seared. But even then the Lord will still work in such a way as to try and bring the backslidden child back to Himself. He doesn't automatically abandon His erring child without working to bring them back, through whatever means He knows they need. I dont' know everything that OSAS proponents believe, I'm sure I have lots in common with them...such as that Jesus is the Son of God, and that we are saved through faith in Him. Many OSAS people thankfully do not preach that we can use liberty as a license to sin either. But I do believe from scripture that it's possible for one to lose their faith/salvation...I don't believe in the once saved, always saved doctrine. Not at all.
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Post by bethany on Sept 8, 2020 15:00:57 GMT -5
It seems to me that anything watchful or I say is being treated like a witch-hunt for an tiny miniscule possible way it can be twisted to make it sound like we are supporting OSAS. Nuanced conversation is not possible, outright denial of supporting OSAS is not believed. I don't see any way this conversation can progress. Can no-one understand the difference between daily mercies and unforgivable sin leading to casting out? There are incidents not specified in scripture, but the principles are clear throughout the Bible. I know, truly KNOW my posts are scriptural and abide by scriptural principles. They are not mere opinions. You are wrong. I know that what Watchful said was opinions. That is who I was addressing. I never said anything about you personally. In addition, I asked Watchful what the difference is between what she said and OSAS? Is there a point where sin will be imputed to a son or daughter? Is there a place and time when mercy runs out? Is there a time where we are dealing with more than chastisement and a person loses salvation? I am waiting till she answers to make any judgements on whether or not she is preaching OSAS or not. I have not said that she is, but it sounds a lot like it. I am hearing the exact same arguments. And as I agree, and have said I agree with watchful, I am also covered by the same responses from you and freinduff.
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Post by watchful on Sept 8, 2020 15:12:51 GMT -5
Nobody here is talking about "Daddy God love" in that vein though brother. Some of us are just saying that He doesn't condemn and cast off His child for having faults or shortcomings that they are battling to overcome, and I absolutely denounce any doctrine that says otherwise. Not to mention faults and shortcomings and sins that we aren't even aware of. He is longsuffering and He chastises and disciplines who He loves as sons...that is bible truth. Not casts off, not takes His Spirit away so that they are lost....but He disciplines us for our good, to help us overcome and increase in Godliness. And who is without chastisement is an illegitimate child. His righteousness has been imputed to us....and blessed is the one whose sins the Lord does not count against him. We are to hold on to our confidence until the end. God forbid that we should shipwreck anyone's faith and confidence in their salvation, my, my. But does His longsuffering and grace mean we can go and live like the devil with reckless abandon, wilfully and on purpose?....of course not, we are to run the race so as to win it, with sincerity, wholeheartedly....sow to the Spirit and reap eternal life, sow to the flesh and reap destruction. But IF we sin in spite of ourselves, we have an Advocate and Intercessor. Peter was not condemned and cast off by the Father, for bumping up against a weakness that he didn't even know he had until then......no way, no how, not for a minute. And here I plant my Ebenezer, as the song says. But the danger was that Peter himself would condemn himself and think himself condemned, thus losing his faith and confidence in his salvation.....that is why Jesus prayed that his faith not fail, and so it didn't. 1Jo 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Sister you have known me for how long again . Let me pet those hackles back in place . ITS GENERAL WARNINGS i often give . But , ye took it pursonel . sorry for the pronounication of personal . BUT NOPE . WE SEE SIN WE WARN ASAP AGAINST IT . Grave , deadly , serious danger sin is . Be encouraged . Sis , you knowed me for years . Okay , let me rewrite that . You have known me for years . have i ever changed for man . You be encouraged . the warnings remain and the seriousness remains . NO COMFORT will i ever allow a soul to have if they are in sin . SERIOUS it must be . Be encouraged . Do praise the LORD What you are calling hackles is just fervency frienduff. I'm not mad, just in earnest, because it's a serious matter. Souls are at stake. I've taken nothing here personally at all, you must be misunderstanding something, but I can't think what. And I truly do not care how anyone speaks, the object is just to understand one another....somebody for sure got their wires crossed on that. It's a non-issue for me brother.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 8, 2020 15:23:12 GMT -5
There is one thing that you said frienduff , that I know to be true. We have been lied to. We have been lied to by men and women. We have been lied to by demonic spirits. We have been lied to by our imaginations and intellect. Yes we have. But if we keep walking in a spirit of suspicion and fear we will err on the other side. Not accusing, just saying. Stay on full alert always . Test all things , test all things . that sounds suspciouos and fearful . YET ITS TRUTH . What do you mean by walking in the Spirit of suspicion and fear . cause what i just said most folks would call suspsicion and fear . The fact i trust in no man . Would sound suspscious and fearful . SO . What do you mean by that . cause i have heard that line before . OH dear sister , i have heard it before . If i told you by whom , you would cringe . BUT SISTER , you need to explain what YOU mean by that .
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Post by watchful on Sept 8, 2020 15:25:48 GMT -5
Yes we have. But if we keep walking in a spirit of suspicion and fear we will err on the other side. Not accusing, just saying. Stay on full alert always . Test all things , test all things . that sounds suspciouos and fearful . YET ITS TRUTH . What do you mean by walking in the Spirit of suspicion and fear . cause what i just said most folks would call suspsicion and fear . The fact i trust in no man . Would sound suspscious and fearful . SO . What do you mean by that . cause i have heard that line before . OH dear sister , i have heard it before . If i told you by whom , you would cringe . BUT SISTER , you need to explain what YOU mean by that . Suspicion and fear comes from trusting in the flesh rather than relying on the Holy Spirit.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 8, 2020 15:26:48 GMT -5
I know that what Watchful said was opinions. That is who I was addressing. I never said anything about you personally. In addition, I asked Watchful what the difference is between what she said and OSAS? Is there a point where sin will be imputed to a son or daughter? Is there a place and time when mercy runs out? Is there a time where we are dealing with more than chastisement and a person loses salvation? I am waiting till she answers to make any judgements on whether or not she is preaching OSAS or not. I have not said that she is, but it sounds a lot like it. I am hearing the exact same arguments. And as I agree, and have said I agree with watchful, I am also covered by the same responses from you and freinduff. Well i truly think it best we just ask one another questions so as there is no doubt on things . I will ask you one and you feel free to ask me one . SO i ask , cause i dont know , do you believe in OSAS .
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Post by frienduff on Sept 8, 2020 15:28:33 GMT -5
Stay on full alert always . Test all things , test all things . that sounds suspciouos and fearful . YET ITS TRUTH . What do you mean by walking in the Spirit of suspicion and fear . cause what i just said most folks would call suspsicion and fear . The fact i trust in no man . Would sound suspscious and fearful . SO . What do you mean by that . cause i have heard that line before . OH dear sister , i have heard it before . If i told you by whom , you would cringe . BUT SISTER , you need to explain what YOU mean by that . Suspicion and fear comes from trusting in the flesh rather than relying on the Holy Spirit. Yes and i have been accused of many for following the flesh . so again its not clear enough . Sister , i have heard this line from mega false ones . this is why i am trying to get to the bottom of it . Its not an accusation . Sister . ask me a question. and watch how i answer it . Just do it . any question you like .
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Post by frienduff on Sept 8, 2020 15:30:22 GMT -5
Stay on full alert always . Test all things , test all things . that sounds suspciouos and fearful . YET ITS TRUTH . What do you mean by walking in the Spirit of suspicion and fear . cause what i just said most folks would call suspsicion and fear . The fact i trust in no man . Would sound suspscious and fearful . SO . What do you mean by that . cause i have heard that line before . OH dear sister , i have heard it before . If i told you by whom , you would cringe . BUT SISTER , you need to explain what YOU mean by that . Suspicion and fear comes from trusting in the flesh rather than relying on the Holy Spirit. Here lets make it easier . Do you see any area that you beleive i am in error on . THAT outta make it real simple . DO you . just feel free to speak that mind .
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Post by John on Sept 8, 2020 15:31:50 GMT -5
Most everything you posted here are nothing but personal opinions. You have no scripture to show Peter was not cast off during that time where he denied the Lord. You have no Biblical proof as to what situations may occur where God will or will not cast away one of his children. All judgement has been left to Jesus. The scripture you quoted about blessed are those whose sins are not imputed to them does not mean a person can continue in willful sins and they will not be imputed to them. That scripture has been twisted in knots by the OSAS believers to mean something it does not. Peter came back to the faith, but according to Jesus' own teachings, Peter would have been denied by the Lord had he died without repenting. It is Jesus' word against yours. I will take the word of Jesus.
By the way, we have already addressed the difference between willful sins and sins done in error, where we did not realize we sinned. Romans chapter 10 makes a distinction in the two kinds of sins. The Old Testament makes a similar distinction calling sins done on purpose presumptuous sins. The problem you face here is that nearly everything you said is just opinions, but you state them as fact. In the instances you quote scripture, they do not prove you correct.
Pardon me for saying, dear brother, but I haven't seen any biblical proof presented that proves Peter was cast off and lost. It's dangerous ground to establish doctrine on the basis of one scripture....we need two or three witnesses....as well as the whole counsel of God. I beg you to reconsider that part. Of course if anyone PERSISTS in sin they are in danger of being cast off, their hearts may harden, their conscience may become seared. But even then the Lord will still work in such a way as to try and bring the backslidden child back to Himself. He doesn't automatically abandon His erring child without working to bring them back, through whatever means He knows they need. I dont' know everything that OSAS proponents believe, I'm sure I have lots in common with them...such as that Jesus is the Son of God, and that we are saved through faith in Him. Many OSAS people thankfully do not preach that we can use liberty as a license to sin either. But I do believe from scripture that it's possible for one to lose their faith/salvation...I don't believe in the once saved, always saved doctrine. Not at all.
Okay. Thanks for your response, and I can see you are not OSAS.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 8, 2020 15:34:39 GMT -5
Pardon me for saying, dear brother, but I haven't seen any biblical proof presented that proves Peter was cast off and lost. It's dangerous ground to establish doctrine on the basis of one scripture....we need two or three witnesses....as well as the whole counsel of God. I beg you to reconsider that part. Of course if anyone PERSISTS in sin they are in danger of being cast off, their hearts may harden, their conscience may become seared. But even then the Lord will still work in such a way as to try and bring the backslidden child back to Himself. He doesn't automatically abandon His erring child without working to bring them back, through whatever means He knows they need. I dont' know everything that OSAS proponents believe, I'm sure I have lots in common with them...such as that Jesus is the Son of God, and that we are saved through faith in Him. Many OSAS people thankfully do not preach that we can use liberty as a license to sin either. But I do believe from scripture that it's possible for one to lose their faith/salvation...I don't believe in the once saved, always saved doctrine. Not at all.
Okay. Thanks for your response, and I can see you are not OSAS. yeah , i could have told you that answer if you had asked me . I have known this sister for a while . But i would love a reponse to the last question i gave her .
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Post by John on Sept 8, 2020 15:39:59 GMT -5
Okay. Thanks for your response, and I can see you are not OSAS. yeah , i could have told you that answer if you had asked me . I have known this sister for a while . But i would love a reponse to the last question i gave her . I hope so too. It goes so much easier when questions are answered directly A ton of misunderstandings have been quickly put to rest. Some existed for the last couple of years.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 8, 2020 15:41:58 GMT -5
John , watchful , bethany , tabitha , letters , cletus , giller , triple sevens , solid , and all here . Ask my any question you like . IF you think i am off on something let me know . Ask me , and watch and test my answer .
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