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Post by John on Jul 18, 2018 18:09:12 GMT -5
This is a common topic at some message boards. You will have someone come in and tell everyone it is wrong to celebrate Christmas and Easter because of their origins, and then others will immediately attack them and label them as legalists and try to run them out. When I was Pastor of a Pentecostal Church many years ago, I had a person come to me and give me a VHS tape with teachings about the origins of all the holidays, to show me how they were all pagan and we shouldn't observe them. I remember taking the tape home and watching it with an open mind.
What struck me about the teaching on the video is how the person was saying this day was evil and that day was evil, as though a day on the calendar had been corrupted because certain individuals chose to worship this false deity or that false deity on that particular day. As such, every time that day rolled around during the year, I knew to ignore it. I got to thinking about that, and it was like who gave these idol worshippers and sinners the power to make a day the Lord had made evil? How come October 31 is evil just because a bunch of witches do bad things on that day? Why is December 25 corrupted because idolatry takes place on that calendar day? I have news for everyone. People do good and evil every single day of the year. Some worship God every day of the year, and others worship idols every single day of the year. After giving this a lot of thought, my conclusion is that each day is a day God made, and it is only evil if I choose to do evil on that day. It can be evil for one person and holy and consecrated for me.
What of a Christian celebrating Christmas and Easter? In order for me to decide what to do, I had to ask myself some questions. First, is it evil to recognize and celebrate the birth and resurrection of my Lord? To me the answer is no. I am not forbidden to do either of those things in scripture. Next I have to ask myself, is it sinful to celebrate the birth of my Lord on December 25 because pagans happen to worship idols on that day, or because it is much more likely Jesus was really born in the Fall? I don't see why it would be, since we don't know the actual day of his birth, and since most of the world recognizes Jesus birth on December 25 each year.
Think about this for a moment. Every single year, for about a month before December 25, the entire world, saint and sinner alike, hear songs about Jesus played on secular radio stations and on loud speakers in department stores. You have manger scenes all around, and whether you like a Christmas tree or not, everyone looks at the star as a reminder of the star the wise men followed to locate the Savior of the world. Atheists and God-haters work feverishly to stop all of this each year, and try to force people to stop using the words "Merry Christmas," and to replace it with "Happy holidays," because they are offended by the name of Christ. Why would I want to help their efforts to shut people up about Jesus, and why wouldn't I want to use this opportunity to witness for the Lord?
Are there bad things that take place every Christmas season? No doubt there is. People go around lying to their children about this fairy tale figure named Santa Claus, and they make a god-like figure out of him. He knows everything you do, and rewards or punishes you accordingly. To me, lying about something like this is sinful and wrong, even if it is just done in fun. I remember when I first found out Santa Claus wasn't real, my first thought was whether or not God was real. I reasoned within myself he must be real because grown up worship him, but that thought wouldn't have even entered my mind had my parents been up front with me. I am not saying this to come down on them. I have wonderful parents, and I am really blessed in that way, and they were only doing as everyone around them did, but we need to be careful about such things. There is also the terrible commercialism associated with the holiday, that causes people to over extend themselves and get into trouble financially. Those things are clearly wrong.
Then there is Easter, and our remembrance of the resurrection of Christ. It doesn't always fall on the same calendar day, but Christians are always remembering one thing, our risen savior. Where is the sin in that? So what if others worship idols on that day? They worship idols every day of the calendar year! Again, the world knows we are celebrating our risen Savior on that day, and that Jesus is no longer in the grave, but is alive and seated at the right hand of God the Father. My feelings about the Easter Bunny are the same as my feelings about Santa Claus. If this is kept as a fairy tale, and not reality, I see no issue with it, but lying to children about such things is wrong.
There is no way to defend Halloween, because it is a celebration of evil. It is all about the dark side, and there is no way to sugar cote it. I am not condemning people who have activities that night, but as a Christian, what is there to celebrate? As I said before, the day is what you make of it. If you do evil, the day is evil for you. If you do good, the day is good for you. The Lord made every day.
I know there is a story behind every single holiday during the calendar year, but for the most part, we don't really give that much credence to things like Groundhog Day, except in passing. The issue to me is not whether some people did evil on a particular calendar day, but whether or not that makes that day any less holy than the other calendar days? Can the devil really hijack days God made and make them evil? It is not like you can leave the world to escape them, so if the day itself is defiled, you can pretend it doesn't exist, but it is still there, and you are living through it.
Anyway, that is how I see it. I do not think that those who disagree with me are legalists. I do not think they are foolish, to be made fun or, ridiculed, forced to shut up or anything of the sort. I know they take the position they do out of sincere love for God and a desire to do only that which is pleasing in his sight, so if after reading this, you wish to tell me why you disagree, I welcome your comments. If you agree, your comments are welcome too. If you observe those holidays, you do so as unto the Lord. If you don't observe them, you don't observe them as unto the Lord.
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Post by frienduff on Jul 18, 2018 19:23:22 GMT -5
Easter Passover and Christmas celebrated to HONOR the LORD is fine . NO bunnies , monies greeds or santas . A lie is still a lie no matter what . SO those things I would take out of Christmas and Passover easter . the lies . As for Halloween. Aint not way in any shape or form can we participate . Timothy died , He died rebuking people who were celebrating a pagan festival. The one who paul taught was beaten so badly for doing what was right and stopping probably even some who claimed Christ from participating in a pagan festival . AINT NO way we participate in Halloween. Its not harmless, just cause seeker friendly says so . Timothy was killed ,the least we can do is not participate in that wicked day in any way .
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 18, 2018 19:29:15 GMT -5
Easter Passover and Christmas celebrated to HONOR the LORD is fine . NO bunnies , monies greeds or santas . A lie is still a lie no matter what . SO those things I would take out of Christmas and Passover easter . the lies . As for Halloween. Aint not way in any shape or form can we participate . Timothy died , He died rebuking people who were celebrating a pagan festival. The one who paul taught was beaten so badly for doing what was right and stopping probably even some who claimed Christ from participating in a pagan festival . AINT NO way we participate in Halloween. Its not harmless, just cause seeker friendly says so . Timothy was killed ,the least we can do is not participate in that wicked day in any way . What is the center of your worship and praise is what matters in my opinion as well.
To think otherwise can be compared to: "I do not worship God in day X because the world dedicate it to other gods"
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Post by frienduff on Jul 18, 2018 19:29:37 GMT -5
WHO should we walk as , JESUS . can anyone here IMAGINE JESUS lieing to kids about santa clause or LYING about some easter bunny . NO . so lies we should not do . IF the HOLYDAY is to HONOR JESUS , then do nothing that dishonors HIM . I mean if we celebrate Christmas or Passover , its tough for me to use the word eastar due to I KNOW from whence it comes . But anyway IF we truly DESIRE TO HONOR GOD , CHRIST on those days , THEN DO NOTHING that dishonors HIM . Most folks don't really celebrate Christmas or Easter for CHRIST , they do it for kids and themselves . And those two days IF we choose to hold them as a holiday THEN HOLD them TO HE who DESERVES the HONOR . lies are not harmless , Easter bunny is not real . so don't lie . santa is not real ,so don't lie . and the day of Christmas should be about CHRIST , not about covetousness anyway . I mean let us really pray to GOD about this . And you will see most of what goes on with these holidays Not only don't honor Christ , IT DISHONORS HIM . So if any does celebrate the birth , death and resurrection of CHRIST THEN MAKE SURE ITS ALL ABOUT CHRIST .
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Post by frienduff on Jul 18, 2018 19:34:08 GMT -5
ON that note . I do notice Paul celebrated Pentecost . HE TALKS about it . they did . IT should be fifty days after resurrection day . he was seen of them forty days . THEN TEN DAYS after he ascended , THE HOLY SPIRIT baptism in that room occurred . WE might want to remember that day too . They did . NOW LEAP UP AND PRAISE THE LORD . But remember no HALLOWEEN PEROID . That is just evil and vile and wicked to have anything to do with that event . NO costumes of any kind , NO Nothing .
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Post by frienduff on Jul 18, 2018 19:36:33 GMT -5
Oh and thanksgiving they did celebrate as well. Its older than the pilgrims , A FACT .
way back they held an annual day each year , where they would fast the entire day , come together pray , and praise Him and thank HIM. THEN in the evening the fast broke and they had a thanksgiving meal too. SEE that is how you HONOR GOD on a day . YOU make it all about HIM . that is HOW Passover , resurrection day and his birth should be . ALL ABOUT HONORING HIM .
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Post by Sister on Jul 18, 2018 22:53:22 GMT -5
Hi Butero
I chose a very long time ago not to celebrate Christmas and Easter. I am not really fond of birthday celebrations either to tell you the truth, but especially the first two. I personally do not feel comfortable with it knowing what I know about it.
I made this decision on my own, at the age of 14 or so, and went through a very hard time with the family and friends because of this decision. Even today they still do not accept nor understand my decision (my larger family and friends)
My husband was very angry with me the first few years of our marriage because of this, and it intensified when we had children. He has now accepted my choice and respects it. They all go to my mums house every Christmas eve and I stay home alone and listen to the KJV audio all night.
If anyone wants to take part in these celebrations, I don't judge them. It's not for me however. I wasn't dictated to, or forced to do this by anyone, but through my own conscience only.
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Post by ladypeartree on Jul 19, 2018 4:16:56 GMT -5
For my family Christmas day was always divided into two parts ...Christmas morning was Jesus birthday when the children received gifts ( usually things they needed as a single mum with 4 children money was tight ) Then we went to church and gave presents to people who lived alone, had lunch with my parents then home to celebrate my daughters birthday ( yep she was born on December 25th ) I do remember a neighbour asking me to come to her home for drinks on a Christmas morning ( I don't drink so it shows how well she knew me) and when I declined as we were on our way to church she was really horrified and asked " Why on earth would you do that what has going to church got to do with Christmas? " It led to a very good discussion with my children on the way to church that morning
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Post by ladypeartree on Jul 19, 2018 4:18:01 GMT -5
Oh and Easter bunnies and Halloween are much more American than British although it is creeping in over here now too
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jul 19, 2018 5:00:12 GMT -5
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
I want to preface what i am going to say with the above scripture.
santa clause IS a pagan god. look up yule. Easter is a pagan holiday (originally) and it goes all the way back to ancient babylon. the whole hiding eggs that were bright spring colors was to please the false gods and get a good harvest... its a fertility thing, and what do you know rabbits are very fertile. the easter ham tradition goes back to nimrod, tammuz, semi ramis, baal, etc. what happened in history as the church spread out is there was lots of pagans and in many places the law said what religion you had to be... so they had all these pagans and they just changed the holidays to have a christian theme and kind of blended the two but with chritian overtones. it was common practice for pagans when a new pagan culture would take over another pagan society. the only holiday we have that has true christian roots is thanksgiving. a lot of others such as easter falls on a different day because it has to do with the equinox. sun/moon/earth worship. I used to be against celebrating any thing on these holidays because i used to worship false gods. but as i have grown in knowledge and faith I have realized i do not celebrate or believe the same things i used to. I realized during the time when radios play christmas songs that there was an extra sweet aroma in the air, Jesus. even the sabbath is made for man, not man for the sabbath. so sometimes even on halloween i might eat a little candy corn. i guess i also realized its not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but what comes out. I believe man has the ability to even say... today from now on will be such and such day... and we have the ability to name it and celebrate it for whatever we would want. its all about honoring Jesus. and i believe weather we celebrate or not God honors it. In the OT it was required to do a lot of things, such as keep certain days, and not just the sabbath. the law has been fulfilled. the veil has been torn. We are free with Jesus in us. I will say though, i do not see anything to celebrate on halloween. But, some churches do however have a party on halloween where kids can go and have fun with other kids and there is usually a word from the youth pastor and singing. I think thats a good thing that makes kids not feel left out and provides an environment where they would be less likely to get in trouble of worse.I think there is a big difference between doing that and casting a circle with candles lit calling upon four winds and dark forces. I mean, whats really in the heart?
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Post by John on Jul 19, 2018 5:06:15 GMT -5
Hi Butero I chose a very long time ago not to celebrate Christmas and Easter. I am not really fond of birthday celebrations either to tell you the truth, but especially the first two. I personally do not feel comfortable with it knowing what I know about it.
I made this decision on my own, at the age of 14 or so, and went through a very hard time with the family and friends because of this decision. Even today they still do not accept nor understand my decision (my larger family and friends)
My husband was very angry with me the first few years of our marriage because of this, and it intensified when we had children. He has now accepted my choice and respects it. They all go to my mums house every Christmas eve and I stay home alone and listen to the KJV audio all night.
If anyone wants to take part in these celebrations, I don't judge them. It's not for me however. I wasn't dictated to, or forced to do this by anyone, but through my own conscience only.
I understand, and I can respect that. We all have to make up our own minds in light of the facts. I just wanted to explain the process I went through in deciding it was okay for me to celebrate Christmas and Easter. I don't like to see people judged and attacked for choosing to celebrate those days or not to celebrate those days. Either way, I know people are sincerely doing what they believe is right in their heart. This is clearly not a salvation issue, but one of conscience.
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Post by John on Jul 19, 2018 5:10:03 GMT -5
Oh and Easter bunnies and Halloween are much more American than British although it is creeping in over here now too I thought those things were big everywhere. It is interesting seeing the cultural differences between America and other nations.
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Post by tlsitd on Jul 19, 2018 15:32:40 GMT -5
God knows the heart, and every Christian is accountable to Him for what he or she approves or does not approve. I do not approve of making rules out of matters of personal faith, which, for some, celebrating "Christ-Mass" and Easter is. They observe those "holi"days because they want to honor the Lord by them and believe that is pleasing to Him, and it is Him that they will give an account to for doing it.
My personal belief is that because both "Christ-Mass" and Easter originated as pagan festivals, and were "Christianized" by the Catholic "church", they have nothing to do with Christianity in truth, and I do not keep them. They pay tribute both to paganism and to Roman Catholicism, and I have nothing to do with either one, and do not want my religion or my Lord's name to be associated with either.
If Jesus had wanted us to commemorate His birth, He would have given us instructions to do so, as He did for us to commemorate His death. Likewise with commemorating His resurrection.
I celebrate the Lord's resurrection every day by living a resurrected life in Him and for Him. I don't need a special day to do it (and if I weren't living His resurrection every day, celebrating His resurrection in a formal service one day of the year wouldn't honor Him).
Every day is a holy day to me, although I will say that in my personal experience of how the Lord works in my life, He tends to do special and powerful things on the Lord's Day (aka Sunday), and I believe that that day does have significance to Him. It's an awesome day when you think about what took place on it, and I personally believe that God is proud of what He did on that day, and wants me to remember it and rejoice in it.
There are many things that we use and do in this world that have pagan origins. We live in a Godless world, in societies and cultures shaped by histories and traditions of paganism and false religions. I'm not one of those Christians who gets deep into the study of where everything came from and what it means---names, symbols, etc. I really don't want to know for the most part, and don't believe the Lord wants me to dig into or preoccupy myself with such things. I prefer to be ignorant of evil for the most part and live my life with as much peace and joy in the Lord as my faith permits.
I use the regular names for the days of the week, which are pagan in origin. I'm not honoring the pagan "gods" by using them. Or the days of the month, or the names of the planets. It's just what they're called because of the world we live in. I'm not happy about it, but it is what it is, and God knows this.
The thing that bothers me most about "Christ-Mass" and Easter is not even the fact that they originated as pagan festivals and "holi"-days of a demonic, counterfeit Christian cult, but that they have been added to the Christian religion, right along with the Lord's supper, which we were given. And that's just wrong.
Celebrating a certain day yourself because you believe it honors the Lord is one thing; making it a practice and teaching of the church in general is adding something to Christianity. And we don't have the authority to do that. God delivered the faith to us just as He wanted it to be. He didn't forget to add holidays.
If people want to celebrate "Christ-Mass" or Easter or any other day as part of their own personal conviction that's one thing, but when you add it to the religion itself, that's presumption. And there's no excuse or justification for that.
Most people in the world believe that "Christ-Mass" and Easter are as much a part of Christianity and honoring to God as the Lord's supper!
What if someone one day decided to make a holiday out of the day when John the Baptist baptized Jesus and call it "Baptism Day". Should we add it to Christianity? No. (I hope you see my point.)
If an individual has a personal conviction to celebrate the Lord's birth or His resurrection, let him do as his conscience directs; but he cannot add it to the religion.
Calling "Christ-Mass" and Easter Christian "holi"days, when Christianity has no holidays---and promoting them as such around the world, and even protesting in defense of them ("Merry "Christ-Mass"" vs. "Happy Holidays") is wrong. What person doesn't associate Jesus Christ with "Christ-Mass" trees, which are as pagan as yule logs, Easter eggs and jack-o-lanterns? And what Christian doesn't have one on "Christ-Mass" and use it to "honor" the Lord---as if putting an angel on top makes it holy? Even churches have them---openly proclaiming their adoption of this pagan winter tradition that came to be included in a "holi"day created by the Catholics.
(Why don't we celebrate other Catholic-invented "holi"-days too? Or "Christianize" some other pagan practice and honor God by it? Did God ever commend His people for doing that? So what makes Christians think He's pleased with these celebrations and their tokens?)
Christianity has no holidays. Anyone who adds holidays to Christianity is changing the religion. What Christian would honestly say that "Christ-Mass" and Easter haven't become a part of Christianity itself, just like the Lord's supper? Ask anyone in the world what the Christian holidays are and they will tell you, "Christmas and Easter". (But they aren't.)
Even the fact that the early believers met on the Lord's Day was a personal choice and a tradition of the early church, not a commandment of the Lord or of the apostles. It was a day they recognized as significant and so they chose to gather on that day. We could meet on another day if we wanted, but "Sunday" is the traditional day.
I personally denounce the celebration of "Christ-Mass" and Easter. But if Christians do choose to celebrate them, it should be a personal matter, like celebrating birthdays or national days of observance, and kept out of the church.
Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. (Romans 14:22)
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Post by John on Jul 19, 2018 15:59:04 GMT -5
Thank you for your input Lights. I knew there would be those who do not celebrate the holidays for the reasons you gave. As someone who does celebrate Christmas and Easter, I do not, and never have, seen it as anything like the Lord's supper and never met anyone that does. They are only considered Christian holidays because we are remembering the Lord's birth and resurrection. We are not told to celebrate those things, but neither are we commanded not to.
Thanks Lights for a strong defense of your side of the issue.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 19, 2018 16:30:19 GMT -5
Thank you for your input Lights. I knew there would be those who do not celebrate the holidays for the reasons you gave. As someone who does celebrate Christmas and Easter, I do not, and never have, seen it as anything like the Lord's supper and never met anyone that does. They are only considered Christian holidays because we are remembering the Lord's birth and resurrection. We are not told to celebrate those things, but neither are we commanded not to.
Thanks Lights for a strong defense of your side of the issue.
It is like eating pork, abstaining from it will not make you holier or more acceptable to God.
"But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse." - 1 Corinthians 8:8
"Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died." - Romans 14:15
But I believe we must be careful on how we react and treat people because of this...
going unholy or treating people in an unloving way because of this is not the way to go, in my opinion.
"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour." - 1 Peter 5:8
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