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Post by Sister on Dec 15, 2018 1:21:56 GMT -5
There will be Jews and gentiles saved during the great tribulation period and the millennial reign, however, that will be among those who are still living, not people that already died not knowing Jesus. Salvation can only come through faith in Christ. If you die not knowing him, it will be too late. The people of Israel who survive long enough to come to Christ will be saved. Once you die in a lost state, that is it. There is no more hope of escaping the lake of fire, no second chances. I did not directly respond to anyone because I am not sure if I fully grasp what everyone is believing. I absolutely reject the idea of corporate salvation of all Jews, even those who rejected Christ. I hope nobody is believing in that.
Butero,
What do you mean by corporate salvation of Jews? Do you mean all of them that were ever born?
If so, no, I don't believe that otherwise there would be no remnants reserved. Remnant means a few, not all.
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Post by Sister on Dec 15, 2018 2:10:41 GMT -5
<< You forget that there are heathen out there that served other gods, and didn't know the Lord. Are they all damned for the lake of fire? No. Which is why there is a great white throne judgement. God will look into every man's heart, and mercy will be given to some of them also who never knew the truth. All these people will still have to accept Christ before they can receive salvation, because he's the judge. No one gets past him but has to go through him. >> All will be judged at the judgment for their deeds in THIS life....isn't that is what is happening AT the judgment? Everyone will believe in Christ at the judgment, make no mistake, how could they not? But they will not be judged for what they do AT the judgment but for what they did BEFORE the judgment. Even the devil believes...and trembles. But he is condemned because of his deeds which are in rebellion to the Lord. Likewise all who lived in rebellion to the Lord, rejecting Christ, in this life, are condemned. Those heathen will be judged for that very thing you are saying gives them an excuse....serving other gods. Unless you have scripture that shows otherwise....if so, please bring it and help us understand how you came to this conclusion. Those heathen who never got the opportunity to know Christ will be judged differently. They will not be in the first resurrection but judged according to the books. We gentiles were once the same as those heathen believing in false gods. Can you imagine if you were raised in a heathen family, taught to bow down to their gods, but at the same time had mercy on the poor, helped the oppressed, never lied, cheated, or hurt anyone, but had compassion on all,..was humble and never lifted your voice in anger or pride, never hated anyone, but loved all, and only served these gods because that's all you knew, it's what the family has always done, and not only them, the whole nation and the president, and it was law....then you were suddenly killed. The next thing you know you're in the lake of fire being punished for doing something that you never knew was wrong?
Man cannot fathom the mercy that Christ has. We just don't have that same kind of mercy or capacity for it. We don't even come close. We are not qualified to make these decisions of condemnation nor can we go straight into the hearts of men and know everything they have done. We don't know their thoughts, or their reasons. Thank the Lord no man on this earth will be my judge. He is just not qualified to understand every single person's situation or circumstances. God is not black and white. He knows who has got righteous qualities without even being taught and who hasn't. He knows everyone's situation and he knows how the oppressor has kept his prisoners in bondage. These types I mentioned will not be in the first resurrection, but at the white throne judgement will be judged according to their deeds. If there is hate in there, lying, cheating, murder, envy, and so forth the balances will tilt to the left, if there is more righteousness that came naturally, the balance will sway to the right. All is weighed carefully, every single ounce. The judge stands at the door, and that judge who created us, can throw us away like a potter destroys his imperfect vessels, or he can make a new vessel. He can do whatever he likes.
Luke 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
Know this too also watchful. We are going deep here into truth. We do not go around telling the heathen that they will be ok doing what they do, for they might get another chance. We preach repentance and explain why God does not like them worshiping false gods, and we have to explain that there is only one true God, and he is a jealous God. You have to be diplomatic when speaking to them. You have to be calm, gentile and good at explaining if you really want to reach them. Many have not had this chance of a good discussion with Christians. They believe with all their heart in their culture, and you have to tread carefully. If you really want to win them over, you don't point the finger at them and start condemning, but explain with knowledge to back up. If God wants them, he will draw that individual. I am sure you know this anyway. Neither is it wrong to just preach Jesus is the way. Get that name out there and let them hear it. Let it stir them up to seek. Every circumstance is different and every preacher is assigned for his special task in the way God wants it delivered to that person.
Now the poor. How many poor and oppressed people in this world that don't know our Lord? How many humble? How many afflicted? How many bound with chains, who have not experienced mercy from their oppressors, and never had a break? How many sick, how many unloved? How many abused and broken? After all their hardships, throw them into the lake of fire? Jesus when he comes will stand up for these types. He will take off him who has and give to him that does not have. He will exalt the low, and bring down the high. He gives grace to the humble yet resists the proud. When is their day coming when equity and fairness will be served? Who will loose the bounds that were never loosed before?
If you can picture these types, Jesus is coming to plead their cause also. If they did not know him before, they will be given a chance now, at his coming, if he sees that they can be restored. They will be spared at Armageddon, and will enter the millennium with a newfound truth and protection they never had before.
Psalms 35:10 All my bones shall say, LORD, who is like unto thee, which deliverest the poor from him that is too strong for him, yea, the poor and the needy from him that spoileth him?
Psalms 72:2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment.
Psalms 72:3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.
Psalms 72:4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.
Psalms 72:9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.
Psalms 72:10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.
Psalms 72:11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.
Psalms 72:12 For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper.
Psalms 72:13 He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.
Psalms 72:14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.
Psalms 72:15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised.
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Post by Sister on Dec 15, 2018 2:23:20 GMT -5
More scriptures for you watchful.
Psalms 10:1 Why standest thou afar off, O LORD? why hidest thou thyself in times of trouble?
Psalms 10:2 The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.
Psalms 10:3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.
Psalms 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
Psalms 10:5 His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.
Psalms 10:6 He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity.
Psalms 10:7 His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and fraud: under his tongue is mischief and vanity.
Psalms 10:8 He sitteth in the lurking places of the villages: in the secret places doth he murder the innocent: his eyes are privily set against the poor.
Psalms 10:9 He lieth in wait secretly as a lion in his den: he lieth in wait to catch the poor: he doth catch the poor, when he draweth him into his net.
Psalms 10:10 He croucheth, and humbleth himself, that the poor may fall by his strong ones.
Psalms 10:11 He hath said in his heart, God hath forgotten: he hideth his face; he will never see it.
Psalms 10:12 Arise, O LORD; O God, lift up thine hand: forget not the humble.
Psalms 10:13 Wherefore doth the wicked contemn God? he hath said in his heart, Thou wilt not require it.
Psalms 10:14 Thou hast seen it; for thou beholdest mischief and spite, to requite it with thy hand: the poor committeth himself unto thee; thou art the helper of the fatherless.
Psalms 10:15 Break thou the arm of the wicked and the evil man: seek out his wickedness till thou find none.
Psalms 10:16 The LORD is King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land.
(Not the heathen are all killed and sent to the lake of fire, but there will be no more heathen in his kingdom during the millennium, for all will know the Lord, knowledge will cover the earth. The heathen spared will become followers of Christ.)
Psalms 10:17 LORD, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear:
Psalms 10:18 To judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress.
God knows the hand of the oppressor is strong. This is why there will be mercy. All these will be taught.
Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
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Post by Sister on Dec 15, 2018 2:31:05 GMT -5
<< So you are not technically correct when you say that all that reject Christ will automatically be condemned for the lake of fire - because there is a process involved before that day comes. There is mercy for some who never knew him because of the belief system they were born into, or lack of - but still, they will not be in the first resurrection - A great loss. Woe. >> Sister......I believe what scripture says regarding rewards and punishments will be given out according to deeds, and God being the only one qualified to judge righteously, and judges have a range of powers for which they must exercise their judgment....meting out a whole wide range of both rewards and punishments justly...He being the only one who knows all the ins and outs of the battles each soul faced in their lives....but does not scripture say that all are without excuse because even creation teaches what may be known about God? Just discussing, and hoping we can all help each other, because it is very hard for one person to keep all scriptures in mind at the same time. I know I sometimes will start to look into something and then suddenly am reminded by a scripture that either tweeks or corrects what I was thinking, which I had forgotten about or not taken into consideration. All are without excuse because all have sinned. All that is created is a witness that God made it, but most don't see it. The Word is a witness also, but most don't understand it. During the millennium, all will understand.
Isaiah 30:20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:
Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
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Post by Sister on Dec 15, 2018 2:52:05 GMT -5
God no longer winks at ignorance. I don’t know how clearer it can be. I’m not pretending to have all the answers about what happens when people stand before God’s throne, but we have to be careful about promoting these exemptions to the gospel.
I am speaking about truth. What is to come. The facts. I don't believe in covering anything up in case someone gets the wrong idea. The scriptures say that God will give mercy unto whom he will give mercy too. We are not just put here to have our ears tickled, or to hear all the nice things, or receive scare tactics. If we are sincere we shall seek the whole truth, and cover nothing up. Many seem to be so worried how the unbelievers will perceive things. I am more concerned about how the believers are perceiving things by declaring untruths which are not written in scripture. It's all upside down. God will draw whomever he will draw to Christ. No man can come to the Father unless Christ draws him. If someone gets deceived by a truth, the problem is with that person for not inquiring about it further himself....but by taking what he wants to hear, and ignoring the rest. The Word of the Lord is line upon line, precept upon precept. Christ spoke in parables all the time to trip up. He did this deliberately because their hearts were not right. Not just for the Jews.
Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1 Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
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Post by Sister on Dec 15, 2018 8:45:05 GMT -5
Many years ago, I was a member of an Assemblies of God Church, and we had a guest speaker named Lari Goss. That is not the man who is the Christian record producer, but a prophecy teacher. He knew just about all there was to know about Revelation and other books of prophecy, as he specialized in them. He even memorized entire chapters word for word. I wish there were some of his teachings around on YouTube or somewhere.
Anyway, after his week of Bible teaching was over, and he had left, my Pastor was talking to me and said that Preacher Goss had some strange beliefs, like his belief that those who had never heard the message of the gospel in remote places were not saved. I was shocked to know anyone believed they were saved, as that is not Biblical. The reason why we send missionaries into the world is to save those people. If they are saved because of ignorance, why do that, and have them become accountable and see many wind up in hell? We are supposed to be trying to save souls, not damn souls. That was my first encounter with this idea, but he had no Biblical basis for his belief. It was all based on his personal feelings of fairness. The Bible states in Acts there is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved but Jesus, and those who try to enter the sheepfold any other way are thieves and robbers. That is plain to me. What am I missing here?
Those in the remote places are not saved in the sense that they will be in the first resurrection....because they need to hear and learn about Christ first in order to part-take in that special event. Without going through Christ there is no chance whatsoever of being in that resurrection, but some of them may have a chance of having their lives spared at the Coming, and be chosen as the gentile remnants who will receive mercy, be taught, then be saved at the 2nd resurrection. The rest will take part in the great white throne judgement where the balances will be weighed. A different judgement altogether. Not judged on whether they knew Christ or his commandments, but judged according to the books which means what's written in there about them. All their deeds good and bad have been recorded. They will be judged according to this judgement - their deeds. That judgement is a harsh one, because all sins are not forgiven but remain, on the other hand, some may have more good deeds recorded. There is a scripture that says love covers a multitude of sins. It's the heart that Christ looks into.
One cannot enter the kingdom of God and receive salvation without Christ letting them in.. This is not going through the back door, but through the door of Christ himself. He's the judge. Those thieves and robbers who enter the sheepfold by another way is speaking about the Christian churches, run by men, making themselves important and making up their own rules.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 9:31:21 GMT -5
<< Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
There are the poor who have missed out (who do not know Christ), and there are meek people existing still who do not yet know Christ also, Christ will stand up for them too because they were oppressed. >>
Is there no need to take the gospel to the lost who are meek and oppressed then....they don't need it? Shall we just give those ones a skip then? On the contrary, the gospel is good news to the poor and oppressed! And the blessing is that it is the gospel the poor and oppressed often can receive more readily than the wealthy oppressors who get their own way in this life. And I take that verse to be alluding to those who are faithful to the Lord down throughout history and paid a price for it.....where it also says the meek will inherit the earth.
Sister.....in man's flesh is no good thing......hearts are deceitfully wicked.....all man's righteousness is filthy rags to God. You seem to be implying that some who do not know the Lord are deserving of salvation apart from Christ because they are meek....whereas the bible says they are condemned already. Those who are oppressed in this world...is the righteous judgment of God already on fallen flesh.....the whole world without Christ is under His curse and rightly so, because He is not unjust. But He will judge and punish the lost with equity, those who are deserving of more severe punishment will receive it, and those who sinned less receive a less severe punishment. Punishments, like rewards, are meted out as is just and fair.) But none of the lost will escape the justice of God. All we believers likewise deserve punishment and ONLY escape judgment through faith in Christ..there is no other way and no other name by which man can be saved.
All in all, a lot of what you are saying overall sounds similar to Catholic theology. Too much reliance on the carnal mind and not enough on the Spirit who leads us into all truth. It's as though mixing in of the carnal mind leads to a corresponding mixture in what is produced.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 15, 2018 9:38:25 GMT -5
Yeah, this teaching is only a stone’s throw from purgatory.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 10:28:29 GMT -5
<< You forget that there are heathen out there that served other gods, and didn't know the Lord. Are they all damned for the lake of fire? No. Which is why there is a great white throne judgement. God will look into every man's heart, and mercy will be given to some of them also who never knew the truth. All these people will still have to accept Christ before they can receive salvation, because he's the judge. No one gets past him but has to go through him. >> All will be judged at the judgment for their deeds in THIS life....isn't that is what is happening AT the judgment? Everyone will believe in Christ at the judgment, make no mistake, how could they not? But they will not be judged for what they do AT the judgment but for what they did BEFORE the judgment. Even the devil believes...and trembles. But he is condemned because of his deeds which are in rebellion to the Lord. Likewise all who lived in rebellion to the Lord, rejecting Christ, in this life, are condemned. Those heathen will be judged for that very thing you are saying gives them an excuse....serving other gods. Unless you have scripture that shows otherwise....if so, please bring it and help us understand how you came to this conclusion. Those heathen who never got the opportunity to know Christ will be judged differently. They will not be in the first resurrection but judged according to the books. We gentiles were once the same as those heathen believing in false gods. Can you imagine if you were raised in a heathen family, taught to bow down to their gods, but at the same time had mercy on the poor, helped the oppressed, never lied, cheated, or hurt anyone, but had compassion on all,..was humble and never lifted your voice in anger or pride, never hated anyone, but loved all, and only served these gods because that's all you knew, it's what the family has always done, and not only them, the whole nation and the president, and it was law....then you were suddenly killed. The next thing you know you're in the lake of fire being punished for doing something that you never knew was wrong?
Man cannot fathom the mercy that Christ has. We just don't have that same kind of mercy or capacity for it. We don't even come close. We are not qualified to make these decisions of condemnation nor can we go straight into the hearts of men and know everything they have done. We don't know their thoughts, or their reasons. Thank the Lord no man on this earth will be my judge. He is just not qualified to understand every single person's situation or circumstances. God is not black and white. He knows who has got righteous qualities without even being taught and who hasn't. He knows everyone's situation and he knows how the oppressor has kept his prisoners in bondage. These types I mentioned will not be in the first resurrection, but at the white throne judgement will be judged according to their deeds. If there is hate in there, lying, cheating, murder, envy, and so forth the balances will tilt to the left, if there is more righteousness that came naturally, the balance will sway to the right. All is weighed carefully, every single ounce. The judge stands at the door, and that judge who created us, can throw us away like a potter destroys his imperfect vessels, or he can make a new vessel. He can do whatever he likes.
Luke 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
Know this too also watchful. We are going deep here into truth. We do not go around telling the heathen that they will be ok doing what they do, for they might get another chance. We preach repentance and explain why God does not like them worshiping false gods, and we have to explain that there is only one true God, and he is a jealous God. You have to be diplomatic when speaking to them. You have to be calm, gentile and good at explaining if you really want to reach them. Many have not had this chance of a good discussion with Christians. They believe with all their heart in their culture, and you have to tread carefully. If you really want to win them over, you don't point the finger at them and start condemning, but explain with knowledge to back up. If God wants them, he will draw that individual. I am sure you know this anyway. Neither is it wrong to just preach Jesus is the way. Get that name out there and let them hear it. Let it stir them up to seek. Every circumstance is different and every preacher is assigned for his special task in the way God wants it delivered to that person.
Now the poor. How many poor and oppressed people in this world that don't know our Lord? How many humble? How many afflicted? How many bound with chains, who have not experienced mercy from their oppressors, and never had a break? How many sick, how many unloved? How many abused and broken? After all their hardships, throw them into the lake of fire? Jesus when he comes will stand up for these types. He will take off him who has and give to him that does not have. He will exalt the low, and bring down the high. He gives grace to the humble yet resists the proud. When is their day coming when equity and fairness will be served? Who will loose the bounds that were never loosed before?
If you can picture these types, Jesus is coming to plead their cause also. If they did not know him before, they will be given a chance now, at his coming, if he sees that they can be restored. They will be spared at Armageddon, and will enter the millennium with a newfound truth and protection they never had before.
Psalms 35:10 All my bones shall say, LORD, who is like unto thee, which deliverest the poor from him that is too strong for him, yea, the poor and the needy from him that spoileth him?
Psalms 72:2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment.
Psalms 72:3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.
Psalms 72:4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.
Psalms 72:9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.
Psalms 72:10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.
Psalms 72:11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.
Psalms 72:12 For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper.
Psalms 72:13 He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.
Psalms 72:14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.
Psalms 72:15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised.
Sister, who am I to condemn anyone....I was once lost and in sin myself, and only God knows the battles that have come against each one, so I don't condemn but can only try to show my fellow man the same way out that He gave to me. I agree that most of the time we use a wooing approach. But some might need rebuking...the bible says, some save by compassion and some save by fear. Yesterday I was in conversation with someone with mental illness who was yelling at me without cause, and railing against those she was blaming for certain troubles in her life. I told her she needed to be accountable for her own wrongs, and seek to forgive those who wrong her......that God only asks us to acknowledge our own wrongs.....trying to explain that she was in the wrong to be yelling at me and railing against those others, and how repentance is the best kept secret in Christendom. All this yelling and railing and blaming others for her illness is a symptom of her illness that can be cleansed out by acknowledging and repenting of it. Confess our sins and He will be faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us of our sins. I started off more gentle but as she kept yelling and then trying to deflect blame, I had to take authority and get more in rebuking mode...faithful are the wounds of a friend. She is poor and oppressed.....but sinning and unrepentant as of yet. When she is calmer and more rational after this episode, I'll go try and talk to her some more and reason from the scriptures. One day I hope the Lord will rise up and cast out her demons, or however He wants to deliver her. I felt yesterday we were getting closer to that....and that sometimes requires rebuking and sometimes just the washing of the water of the word. Psalm 72 I believe is talking about God's own people, when we read it in it's entirety carefully and prayerfully. Psa 72:2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment. There will be justice in the end for those of His people who were persecuted and oppressed and hounded by the devil and by man in this life.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 10:50:58 GMT -5
<< A different judgement altogether. Not judged on whether they knew Christ or his commandments, but judged according to the books which means what's written in there about them. All their deeds good and bad have been recorded. They will be judged according to this judgement - their deeds. That judgement is a harsh one, because all sins are not forgiven but remain, on the other hand, some may have more good deeds recorded. There is a scripture that says love covers a multitude of sins. It's the heart that Christ looks into. >>
Which heart, the one that is deceitfully wicked? Sister, this is contrary to the whole gospel, plain and simple.....no one will escape being punished who know not Christ, it's just a matter of judging how severe a punishment they will receive, according to their deeds, level of wickedness, etc. Having broken one commandment, means they have broken the whole law, so there is no salvation without faith in Christ in this life, even if they have a million good deeds and only one bad one. It's appointed unto man but once to die and after that the judgment. The judgment that judges THIS life before death.....did they know Christ in this life or did they not. And if not that is the reason they are being judged, ie, receiving their just sentence. That is what the great white throne judgment is for....to receive their sentencing.....because remember who knows not Christ is condemned already. It's a judgment for sentencing, not a trial to decide who will now receive salvation or not. Receiving Christ now in this life is the only way to be saved....that is the gospel message.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 10:57:28 GMT -5
<< Those thieves and robbers who enter the sheepfold by another way is speaking about the Christian churches, run by men, making themselves important and making up their own rules. >>
Entering another way is also those who enter by thinking that their good deeds outweigh their bad ones. That is one way by which some try to enter but wont' be allowed to stay. Tares among the wheat.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 15, 2018 11:10:52 GMT -5
If I’m not mistaken, Sister’s way of thinking here seems to be that since Jesus died for the sins of the world and has assumed all authority to judge/rule the human race, He thus has legal power to ignore the sins of certain people whom He deems to be morally good but theologically lost.
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Post by Sister on Dec 15, 2018 11:46:01 GMT -5
Is there no need to take the gospel to the lost who are meek and oppressed then....they don't need it? Shall we just give those ones a skip then? On the contrary, the gospel is good news to the poor and oppressed! And the blessing is that it is the gospel the poor and oppressed often can receive more readily than the wealthy oppressors who get their own way in this life. And I take that verse to be alluding to those who are faithful to the Lord down throughout history and paid a price for it.....where it also says the meek will inherit the earth. watchful, have you read my replies on this thread? Where did I even imply that there's no need to preach the gospel? I preach the gospel myself to the meek and the oppressed. Where did I say they don't need to hear the gospel? Isn't the good news about Jesus returning, and all who believe in him receiving their salvation by taking part in the first resurrection? I think I made that clear.
I am speaking about pure facts, what is to come and how it will be done. What God has revealed to us from his Word. God is not black and white because there is mercy involved. There are plenty of meek people who are not Christians which walked this earth. I see Christians who have no love, no righteous judgement, false accusers and who are acting proud claiming to be saved, having their reward already, and condemning every one else straight to hell when it is not true,...because of lack of knowledge. They are preaching doctrines that are not in the bible, and I see people who do not know Christ having those qualities that Christians are supposed to have without being taught or guided possessing such things as love, meekness, kindness & long-suffering. Most of the poor of this world and the meek are not Christians. Yes there are Christians who are meek, but not many. Most of the sick, and the oppressed of this world are not Christians. They don't know Christ. Simple fact. There are people that have missed out and been downtrodden all of their lives and to say that Christ will not have mercy on some of them who's essence are not truly evil, is absolutely wrong and misleading. There are poor oppressed people who are wicked yes, and they also oppress others, but I don't think these are the types who the scriptures are speaking about.
No one deserves salvation, not even Christians. Christians need mercy also. Christians still sin, can be deceived, can speak error against the truth. Our righteousness can never match our Lord's. Can never even come close no matter how holy one thinks he is. We ought not to be high minded and speak against the truth, because the truth is written in the scriptures. Everything I am speaking about can be backed up through scripture. I have shown you the scriptures, and there are many more.
That is just your opinion. Opinions are not based on fact or knowledge. Let's go to the scriptures for facts.
Now look at this judgement below;
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The "books" are opened. Every man who takes part in this harsh judgement has his own book with everything recorded of all that he has ever done. He will be judged by what's written in his book and will stand trial having to give an account of all his works. He will be judged guilty, or mercy will be shown. If mercy is shown his name will be written in the book of life. This is a different type of judgement, after the 1000 years.
Every vessel is different? God knows before he even created the world who he would choose. Not all stars shine equal in brightness.
2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
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Post by Sister on Dec 15, 2018 12:13:49 GMT -5
<< A different judgement altogether. Not judged on whether they knew Christ or his commandments, but judged according to the books which means what's written in there about them. All their deeds good and bad have been recorded. They will be judged according to this judgement - their deeds. That judgement is a harsh one, because all sins are not forgiven but remain, on the other hand, some may have more good deeds recorded. There is a scripture that says love covers a multitude of sins. It's the heart that Christ looks into. >> Which heart, the one that is deceitfully wicked? Sister, this is contrary to the whole gospel, plain and simple.....no one will escape being punished who know not Christ, it's just a matter of judging how severe a punishment they will receive, according to their deeds, level of wickedness, etc. essage. Some have been punished in this life already. They've had their trials and their losses, ...have gone through pains and sufferings, ...have not known the real Jesus because they may of been put off by a church pedophile or something, or noticed a popular evangelist being busted for sleeping with prostitutes, whatever the reason. There is a falling away right now. Can you honestly say that church is a safe place to find truth? Maybe they think that they have to go to church to be saved and don't like the hype? Maybe just maybe God has not led them there because he didn't want them to be taught a false doctrine? Look at the letters to the seven churches and that was back then. It has gone worse today. You cannot teach anyone who puts their church first before the truth because the cup is already full. It's full of the new wine, and not the good stuff. They have to have an empty cup and will be filled with the right teachers who Christ will chose.
You are speaking about the Jews here. That's what the millenium is for - a time of mercy and a clean new slate.
Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
It's a fair judgement - yes most will be sentenced to the second death, but it's a trial where the books will be read out. I explained before.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 12:15:19 GMT -5
<< When you tell the Lord you are going to repent you have to carry it through. Repentance is an everyday thing to stay away from sin. It doesn't only happen once, but is ongoing. DAILY. It's an everyday exercise. The more one has been given, the more he finds out what he needs to repent of. We have to feed to find out what is acceptable to the Lord and what is not. Many are not aware of all the sins out there, they just know a few, until they start seeking that word they start to find out many more things that need repenting. >>
I agree with this Sister, the Lord will keep revealing more that we need to repent of until we get called home. This is a big part of what growing in the Lord is all about and cleansing the inside of the cup, and our righteousness exceeding that of the Pharisees. Meanwhile thankfully, we have the righteousness of Jesus imputed to us, and then as we grow in Him we are to apprehend more and more of it in actual fact, in our hearts and lives.
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