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Post by Sister on Jun 17, 2019 22:31:55 GMT -5
Etymology
From Middle English mansioun, borrowed from Anglo-Norman mansion, mansiun, from Latin mansiō (“dwelling, stopping-place”), from the past participle stem of manēre (“stay”).
Hi Michael
If a mansion was a dwelling, or a stopping-place, then it makes sense the original meaning of mansion was for travelers. A house with many rooms. So still a big house so to speak, and not the type of house that the rich build for themselves, but like a hotel. A temporary dwelling place.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 0:14:14 GMT -5
Etymology
From Middle English mansioun, borrowed from Anglo-Norman mansion, mansiun, from Latin mansiō (“dwelling, stopping-place”), from the past participle stem of manēre (“stay”).
Hi Michael
If a mansion was a dwelling, or a stopping-place, then it makes sense the original meaning of mansion was for travelers. A house with many rooms. So still a big house so to speak, and not the type of house that the rich build for themselves, but like a hotel. A temporary dwelling place.
Hi Sister, thanks for your input. But let's remember that the English wasn't around when the Scripture was written. And even the King James is a revision from the original Hebrew and Greek.
The Greek word rendered "mansions" in the King James version of John 14:2 is μονή - monḗ; meaning (not a 'stopping place', but rather) a staying, i.e. residence (the act or the place):—abode This word appears only twice in the entire New Testament, the other being John 14:23, which we see shows the translation 'mansion' really doesn't fit -
"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode ( μονή monḗ, "mansion") with him."God is looking for a "staying" place where He can abide eternally, not a 'stopping-place' where He may move on; for if we are only a 'temporary dwelling place' and He moves on from abiding in us, it means we missed out on Eternal union with Him. God's wisdom and understanding to us all. Peace.
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Post by solid on Jun 18, 2019 1:21:12 GMT -5
Dwelling place creates the image of something ordinary, where mansion shows something majestic. I believe the KJV Bible got it right.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 7:03:10 GMT -5
It might be helpful to see how the physical temple gives us a picture of what Jesus meant. There are many rooms built against the walls of the temple around the courtyard, dwelling places for the priests and rooms for the people to meet together and eat the sacrifices.
Box 1Ki 6:5 And against the wall of the house he built chambers round about, against the walls of the house round about, both of the temple and of the oracle: and he made chambers round about
The Father's house could be termed a mansion because it has many rooms, but I am not sure each room could accurately be termed a mansion, in our current use of the word.
Another scripture that alludes to the rooms in the Father's house is Isaiah 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Noah's ark is another allegory for the same thing....
Gen 6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
So Jesus went on ahead as our forerunner to prepare a place/room for us....as we also are to be preparing and cooperating with the Lord in building His house by preparing ourselves as an ark/room/habitation for Him. (He in us and we in Him).
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 18, 2019 7:15:47 GMT -5
I’m confused...
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
The mansions are mentioned in conjunction with Jesus preparing a place for us. How are we incorrectly making this about ‘us’ when Jesus said it was about us? I generally agree that modern Christianity puts too much emphasis on ourselves, but this verse is not the best place for that discussion.
There was never a time when mansion meant the same as a hotel, dormitory, or apartment complex. The word emerged from a castle or estate that provided accommodations to wealthy friends/visitors. It was the private home where the governor stayed on his visit so he wouldn’t have mingle with the public. Over time it came to refer to the castle/estate as general term. Dragging down its meaning to dormitory is a crime against English.
Do with this information what you will.
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Post by John on Jun 18, 2019 7:40:06 GMT -5
I’m confused... In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.The mansions are mentioned in conjunction with Jesus preparing a place for us. How are we incorrectly making this about ‘us’ when Jesus said it was about us? I generally agree that modern Christianity puts too much emphasis on ourselves, but this verse is not the best place for that discussion. There was never a time when mansion meant the same as a hotel, dormitory, or apartment complex. The word emerged from a castle or estate that provided accommodations to wealthy friends/visitors. It was the private home where the governor stayed on his visit so he wouldn’t have mingle with the public. Over time it came to refer to the castle/estate as general term. Dragging down its meaning to dormitory is a crime against English. Do with this information what you will. When Jesus speaks of His Father's House, he could mean His dwelling place, all of Heaven. Our mansion would be located in Heaven, but even if we were to look at it as a room in a huge house, it won't be some tiny room. It will be like a mansion. I have seen Hotel rooms where the wealthy sometimes stay that is like a mansion, it is so huge. I have heard people try to turn mansion into some small room in the past, and I have never believed that was the case. I really think it will be a mansion along a street of gold.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 18, 2019 7:44:47 GMT -5
Let’s also keep in mind that English had a different term for overnight lodging in the public/general sense.
And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready. (Luke 22:11-12)
The Greek word in John 14:2 is not the same as we see here. Jesus didn’t say in His Father’s house are many guest quarters. He simply did not say that. If that was what He said, John would have used the guestchamber word. Neither did He say in His Father’s house are many rooms.
He said in His Father’s house are many (( exactly what mansion meant back then )). Not a room, not an apartment, not a guest suite, and not an inn. It literally meant a dwelling abode.
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Post by John on Jun 18, 2019 7:46:16 GMT -5
Dwelling place creates the image of something ordinary, where mansion shows something majestic. I believe the KJV Bible got it right. Those who seek to defend the counterfeit bibles often times use words like archaic to describe words in the KJV Bible and they make out like these words cause confusion. What is really causing confusion is the new translations that are changing the plain meaning into something completely different, not to mention how they remove portions of the established text. I have spent a lot of time investigating these claims about archaic words and mistranslations in the KJV Bible and I reject all of them. To me, the modern translations they are defending are not the Bible at all. When I see someone quote them, I will generally go back and look it up in the real Bible, the KJV Bible, before I decide whether the text is correct. I have no use for any of the modern translations, and this is one topic where I won't be moved.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 18, 2019 8:00:28 GMT -5
We can discuss the conceptual idea of what this house is all about. That’s well and good. But let’s not pretend that abode means guest room. If we’re going to litigate these supposedly archaic English words, let’s at least make sure we know what we’re doing.
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Post by Sister on Jun 18, 2019 8:15:40 GMT -5
I’m confused... In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.The mansions are mentioned in conjunction with Jesus preparing a place for us. How are we incorrectly making this about ‘us’ when Jesus said it was about us? I generally agree that modern Christianity puts too much emphasis on ourselves, but this verse is not the best place for that discussion. There was never a time when mansion meant the same as a hotel, dormitory, or apartment complex. The word emerged from a castle or estate that provided accommodations to wealthy friends/visitors. It was the private home where the governor stayed on his visit so he wouldn’t have mingle with the public. Over time it came to refer to the castle/estate as general term. Dragging down its meaning to dormitory is a crime against English. Do with this information what you will. To me a mansion means a big house. I don't think the English language has changed that much, and we are just getting into the nitty gritty. Personally, I have never had to look into the Hebrew or Greek or any language to find out what a mansion means. In my mind, I know what the Lord is talking about because to me it means different levels. For instance;
2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
All the saints are not equal. Some have gone the real hard yards, and some have buried their penny in the sand and gained no fruit within themselves. There will be mercy for some who have fallen short, and for those who gave it their whole heart and soul in spirit and in truth will be given more honour. Not all can be kings and priests because not all vessels are gold and silver.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 18, 2019 8:36:26 GMT -5
I don’t spend a lot of time digging in the Greek or Hebrew myself. It can be helpful in certain situations, but it’s often an unnecessary rabbit trail because you discover that the words in plain English still mean exactly what they said in plain English. You mostly see me parsing the Greek around here when I have to defend KJV.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 8:54:08 GMT -5
Dwelling place creates the image of something ordinary, where mansion shows something majestic. I believe the KJV Bible got it right. I understand the sentimental attachment to the King James, but the Greek is what the NT was written in, and is far superior to the often watered down English translations. Sorry. I like the King Jame too. But Jesus didn't speak in English, or actually even Greek. Jesus spoke in Aramaic back then. The Greek has it right.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jun 18, 2019 9:19:18 GMT -5
It is worth noting here that we are talking about a King who prepares living accommodations for His personal friends. The Father’s house is well suited for hospitality. Not mere living space, but the full experience of hosting and entertaining friends. In this world we are pilgrims; in that world we are adopted into the royal family of God. Kings don’t expect their loved ones to live in minimalist rooms. Given the totality of what’s happening in the second half of John’s gospel, hosting loved ones in a castle is precisely what Jesus meant.
He makes His abode in us, and we have our abode with Him. He prepared a place for us. It is our abode. He didn’t say He was going to build mansions (or rooms or anything else). He said Father’s house already had them, and He was going to prepare them as furnishment for us. Peter asked Him at the end of John 13 where He was going. He said He was going to prepare accommodations for Peter and the rest. They couldn’t join Him at that time because their accommodations weren’t furnished yet. But He promised they would be with Him eventually. Not that He would be where they are, but they would be where He is. I have no clue how this gets twisted into God making a Christian for His abode on earth.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jun 18, 2019 9:29:30 GMT -5
The Father’s house is well suited for hospitality. "For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed,
we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." - 2 Corinthians 5:1
"for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God." - Hebrews 11:10
"Nevertheless we, according to His promise,
look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells." - 2 Peter 3:13
"...as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”" - 1 Corinthians 2:9
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Post by solid on Jun 18, 2019 9:34:09 GMT -5
Dwelling place creates the image of something ordinary, where mansion shows something majestic. I believe the KJV Bible got it right. I understand the sentimental attachment to the King James, but the Greek is what the NT was written in, and is far superior to the often watered down English translations. Sorry. I like the King Jame too. But Jesus didn't speak in English, or actually even Greek. Jesus spoke in Aramaic back then. The Greek has it right. And it is properly translated mansion.
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