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Post by Giller on Jan 25, 2020 21:14:57 GMT -5
Joh 13:35 (35) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
You can be a believer and speak in tongues and have love and you can be a believer that does not speak in tongues and have love.
Tongues does not define how mature a Christian is or how not mature, but in saying this let us not get offended at any part of the word whether it be on tongues, love, dying to self and so on.
I am not trying to elevate any body more higher than the other.
But instead of fighting against what the word says why not just embrace it all !!!!!!!!
See salvation is a gift, even having the baptism of the Holy Ghost is a gift, and even all of the 9 gifts of the spirit mentioned in Corinthians are gifts (gifts of healing, gift of prophecy etc.).
1Co 12:1 (1) Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
Not every one have all the 9 gifts, in fact very few if any do have all of them, and whatever one you have or do not have does not make your more holy than the other.
Act 10:45-46 (45) And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (46) For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
So here tongues is mentioned as being a gift of the Holy Ghost, and it is not the only evidence of the baptism, but it is an initial gift that is given to the believer at the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
It is called the gift "of" the Holy Ghost, it is a gift that the Holy Ghost gives to believers at the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and why wouldn't the Holy Ghost give us an initial gift at the baptism of the Spirit?
I do not find this scripture offensive at all, I just embrace it.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 26, 2020 10:42:23 GMT -5
So here tongues is mentioned as being a gift of the Holy Ghost, and it is not the only evidence of the baptism, but it is an initial gift that is given to the believer at the baptism of the Holy Ghost. It is called the gift " of" the Holy Ghost, it is a gift that the Holy Ghost gives to believers at the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and why wouldn't the Holy Ghost give us an initial gift at the baptism of the Spirit? I do not find this scripture offensive at all, I just embrace it. First, in no place of Scripture it tells that all who receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit will manifest tongues.
People who believe that are going by presumption, just because people who received it manifested tongues.
But it does not happen to all believers, myself being an alive proof of this.
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body... - 1 Corinthians 12:13
See above, it says we were all baptized into one body. It says ALL believers (none is excluded).
Then, or I am not a believer or it is true that not all will manifest tongues.
But I believe not all will manifest tongues, as it is written here:
Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? - 1 Corinthians 12:30
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them... - Romans 12:6
People who speak tongues find it hard to accept it because they expect all people to be like them.
Not all will manifest the same gifts. That is what many is not understanding.
But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. - 1 Corinthians 12:11
Blessings!
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Post by Giller on Jan 26, 2020 13:49:34 GMT -5
So here tongues is mentioned as being a gift of the Holy Ghost, and it is not the only evidence of the baptism, but it is an initial gift that is given to the believer at the baptism of the Holy Ghost. It is called the gift " of" the Holy Ghost, it is a gift that the Holy Ghost gives to believers at the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and why wouldn't the Holy Ghost give us an initial gift at the baptism of the Spirit? I do not find this scripture offensive at all, I just embrace it. First, in no place of Scripture it tells that all who receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit will manifest tongues.
People who believe that are going by presumption, just because people who received it manifested tongues.
But it does not happen to all believers, myself being an alive proof of this.
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body... - 1 Corinthians 12:13
See above, it says we were all baptized into one body. It says ALL believers (none is excluded).
Then, or I am not a believer or it is true that not all will manifest tongues.
But I believe not all will manifest tongues, as it is written here:
Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? - 1 Corinthians 12:30
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them... - Romans 12:6
People who speak tongues find it hard to accept it because they expect all people to be like them.
Not all will manifest the same gifts. That is what many is not understanding.
But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. - 1 Corinthians 12:11
Blessings! For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body... - 1 Corinthians 12:13This verse is talking about salvation, for at salvation we all get the Holy Spirit, we get baptized into one body. It is the Spirit baptizing us into the body of Christ, but it is not the Holy Spirit baptizing us into the baptism of the Spirit and power. That is a separate baptism. Act 19:1 (1) And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, Act 19:5-7 (5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (6) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (7) And all the men were about twelve. Now these people were already saved, for they were disciples, then they got water baptized, and after that received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. The baptism of the Holy Ghost ( not being baptized into the body) comes sometime after salvation though it can be gotten at the time of salvation as well. Luk 24:49 (49) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. Mat 3:11 (11) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: And on the day of Pentecost they received this baptism which was evidenced with speaking in other tongues. I do not really want to argue with you Letters, just do not accuse people when we do not see eye to eye. I do not think less of you because you do not speak in tongues but please do not think less of us. And if you never ever speak in tongues Letters, heaven is still your home, and my home.
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Post by Giller on Jan 26, 2020 14:11:50 GMT -5
When you get baptized into the body, of course you get the Holy Ghost, but what happens is you get fully immersed into the body of Christ.
And when you get baptized into the Holy Ghost, you fully get immersed into the Holy Spirit.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 26, 2020 14:13:28 GMT -5
First, in no place of Scripture it tells that all who receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit will manifest tongues.
People who believe that are going by presumption, just because people who received it manifested tongues.
But it does not happen to all believers, myself being an alive proof of this.
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body... - 1 Corinthians 12:13
See above, it says we were all baptized into one body. It says ALL believers (none is excluded).
Then, or I am not a believer or it is true that not all will manifest tongues.
But I believe not all will manifest tongues, as it is written here:
Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? - 1 Corinthians 12:30
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them... - Romans 12:6
People who speak tongues find it hard to accept it because they expect all people to be like them.
Not all will manifest the same gifts. That is what many is not understanding.
But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. - 1 Corinthians 12:11
Blessings! For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body... - 1 Corinthians 12:13This verse is talking about salvation, for at salvation we all get the Holy Spirit, we get baptized into one body. It is the Spirit baptizing us into the body of Christ, but it is not the Holy Spirit baptizing us into the baptism of the Spirit and power. That is a separate baptism. No, it is not.
You are saying that there are more than one baptism?!
This contradicts this:
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
one Lord, one faith, one baptism... - Ephesians 4:4-5
Blessings!
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 26, 2020 14:14:43 GMT -5
When you get baptized into the body, of course you get the Holy Ghost, but what happens is you get fully immersed into the body of Christ. And when you get baptized into the Holy Ghost, you fully get immersed into the Holy Spirit. No, it is not.
How are you saying that there are more than one baptism?!
This contradicts this:
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
one Lord, one faith, one baptism... - Ephesians 4:4-5
Blessings!
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Post by Giller on Jan 26, 2020 14:29:00 GMT -5
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body... - 1 Corinthians 12:13This verse is talking about salvation, for at salvation we all get the Holy Spirit, we get baptized into one body. It is the Spirit baptizing us into the body of Christ, but it is not the Holy Spirit baptizing us into the baptism of the Spirit and power. That is a separate baptism. No, it is not.
You are saying that there are more than one baptism?!
This contradicts this:
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
one Lord, one faith, one baptism... - Ephesians 4:4-5
Blessings!Yes there are more than one baptism, and say we lay aside the baptism of the Holy Ghost for now, then what about water baptism? Act 8:35-39 (35) Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. (36) And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? (37) And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (39) And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. Th Eunuch confessed Jesus to be the Son of God, and he got saved by confessing Christ, and then afterwards he got water baptized. And when we get born again, this is what happens: Gal 3:27 (27) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. When we get saved inwardly we become born again, and now Christ abides in us, and we get fully immersed into Christ, and thus we are saved, but concerning water baptism, yes it is commanded of God, but it does not save us, yes it is a witness and a testimony of what Christ did within us at salvation, but it itself does not save you. And concerning the baptism of the Holy Ghost, it is given to us, not because it saves us, but rather for service, to endue us with power from on high. So now we get to your scripture: Eph 4:4-5 (4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism, This baptism is talking about salvation, or being baptized into Christ, and we only need one baptism for salvation.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 26, 2020 14:41:53 GMT -5
No, it is not.
You are saying that there are more than one baptism?!
This contradicts this:
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
one Lord, one faith, one baptism... - Ephesians 4:4-5
Blessings! Yes there are more than one baptism, and say we lay aside the baptism of the Holy Ghost for now, then what about water baptism? ... Water baptism is a figure of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. - Acts 1:5
John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance,
saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. - Acts 19:4
And all believers, without exception, receive such baptism at the moment they know the truth.
the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive... - John 14:17
It is not needed to manifest tongues in most cases, because it is obvious to you.
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God... - Romans 8:16
Tongues happened in many passages of the Bible because people needed that to believe the Spirit was upon them.
Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers... - 1 Corinthians 14:22
Gifts, such as tongues, may be manifested later.
And then many people think they received the baptism at that time. But it was just a manifestation.
Just as I did not start manifesting supernatural faith and discernment the next day I was saved.
But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. - 1 Corinthians 12:31
I tried pursuing tongues, but I realized I was doing that just to get accepted somehow by other people.
And it was when the Lord confirmed to me that I was already baptized by the Holy Spirit in a supernatural event.
Blessings!
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Post by solid on Jan 26, 2020 14:44:27 GMT -5
Yes there are more than one baptism, and say we lay aside the baptism of the Holy Ghost for now, then what about water baptism? ... Water baptism is a figure of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. - Acts 1:5
John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance,
saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. - Acts 19:4
And all believers, without exception, receive such baptism at the moment they know the truth.
the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive... - John 14:17
It is not needed to manifest tongues in most cases, because it is obvious to you.
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God... - Romans 8:16
Tongues happened in many passages of the Bible because people needed that to believe the Spirit was upon them.
Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers... - 1 Corinthians 14:22
Gifts, such as tongues, may be manifested later.
And then many people think they received the baptism at that time. But it was just a manifestation.
Just as I did not start manifesting supernatural faith and discernment the next day I was saved.
But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. - 1 Corinthians 12:31
I tried pursuing tongues, but I realized I was doing that just to get accepted somehow by other people.
And it was when the Lord confirmed to me that I was already baptized by the Holy Spirit in a supernatural event.
Blessings!What kind of supernatural event?
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 26, 2020 14:51:50 GMT -5
Water baptism is a figure of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. - Acts 1:5
John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance,
saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. - Acts 19:4
And all believers, without exception, receive such baptism at the moment they know the truth.
the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive... - John 14:17
It is not needed to manifest tongues in most cases, because it is obvious to you.
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God... - Romans 8:16
Tongues happened in many passages of the Bible because people needed that to believe the Spirit was upon them.
Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers... - 1 Corinthians 14:22
Gifts, such as tongues, may be manifested later.
And then many people think they received the baptism at that time. But it was just a manifestation.
Just as I did not start manifesting supernatural faith and discernment the next day I was saved.
But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. - 1 Corinthians 12:31
I tried pursuing tongues, but I realized I was doing that just to get accepted somehow by other people.
And it was when the Lord confirmed to me that I was already baptized by the Holy Spirit in a supernatural event.
Blessings! What kind of supernatural event? I was suddenly filled with faith after being oppressed that I should speak tongues or I was not baptized.
Then, it was when I decided to answer that faith and decided to put an end to this.
And the Spirit led me to do something and when I did it I was filled with an intense godly fear and a strong information came to mind confirming it to me.
It was very intense, I cannot make you feel how I felt at that time. But it was something serious.
After that, I was sure of one thing:
I am baptized with the Holy Spirit.
It does not matter what people say about me.
Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written... - Romans 3:4
Blessings!
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Post by John on Jan 26, 2020 19:10:48 GMT -5
What kind of supernatural event? I was suddenly filled with faith after being oppressed that I should speak tongues or I was not baptized.
Then, it was when I decided to answer that faith and decided to put an end to this.
And the Spirit led me to do something and when I did it I was filled with an intense godly fear and a strong information came to mind confirming it to me.
It was very intense, I cannot make you feel how I felt at that time. But it was something serious.
After that, I was sure of one thing:
I am baptized with the Holy Spirit.
It does not matter what people say about me.
Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written... - Romans 3:4
Blessings! What did the Spirit lead you to do?
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Post by Giller on Jan 26, 2020 21:35:02 GMT -5
The bible mentions many baptisms:
Heb 6:2 (2) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Here it says the doctrine of baptisms plural.
Yet only one baptism is needed for salvation:
Eph 4:4-5 (4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
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Post by solid on Jan 27, 2020 5:46:42 GMT -5
The bible mentions many baptisms: Heb 6:2 (2) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Here it says the doctrine of baptisms plural. Yet only one baptism is needed for salvation: Eph 4:4-5 (4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Amen.
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Post by solid on Jan 27, 2020 5:49:33 GMT -5
What kind of supernatural event? I was suddenly filled with faith after being oppressed that I should speak tongues or I was not baptized.
Then, it was when I decided to answer that faith and decided to put an end to this.
And the Spirit led me to do something and when I did it I was filled with an intense godly fear and a strong information came to mind confirming it to me.
It was very intense, I cannot make you feel how I felt at that time. But it was something serious.
After that, I was sure of one thing:
I am baptized with the Holy Spirit.
It does not matter what people say about me.
Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written... - Romans 3:4
Blessings!I still believe the initial evidence of receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues, but I also believe you when you say you had that experience. Like John, I would like to know what the Spirit led you to do?
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Feb 11, 2020 10:41:05 GMT -5
I was suddenly filled with faith after being oppressed that I should speak tongues or I was not baptized.
Then, it was when I decided to answer that faith and decided to put an end to this.
And the Spirit led me to do something and when I did it I was filled with an intense godly fear and a strong information came to mind confirming it to me.
It was very intense, I cannot make you feel how I felt at that time. But it was something serious.
After that, I was sure of one thing:
I am baptized with the Holy Spirit.
It does not matter what people say about me.
Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written... - Romans 3:4
Blessings! I still believe the initial evidence of receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues, but I also believe you when you say you had that experience. Like John, I would like to know what the Spirit led you to do? I too would like to know what the Spirit led him to do. It could go a long way towards ending this controversy. For some reason, he doesn't want to say.
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