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Post by John on Feb 11, 2020 21:19:03 GMT -5
I still believe the initial evidence of receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues, but I also believe you when you say you had that experience. Like John, I would like to know what the Spirit led you to do? I too would like to know what the Spirit led him to do. It could go a long way towards ending this controversy. For some reason, he doesn't want to say. The one thing that is obvious is that nobody here accused him of not telling the truth, or said his experience was not real. As such, I don't know what he had to be offended over. Maybe he will realize that down the road and return. We will have to wait and see.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 12, 2020 11:39:26 GMT -5
I too would like to know what the Spirit led him to do. It could go a long way towards ending this controversy. For some reason, he doesn't want to say. The one thing that is obvious is that nobody here accused him of not telling the truth, or said his experience was not real. As such, I don't know what he had to be offended over. Maybe he will realize that down the road and return. We will have to wait and see.
Correct . nobody here did that . I was just reading on this thread . Perhaps we could talk about our spiritual baptisms . Mine was on sept thirteenth on may two thousand and six . I was in no church either, but at home and was pressing in by prayer . And just suddenly it did appear . I spoke in tongues , but never have done so since . All I remember was that I was really pressing into the LORD through very feverent prayer , just a heart to get closer to HIM . And then it occurred . Maybe letters could tell of his experience , and I am not saying in any way , shape or fashion his was not real . But I would like to hear this testimony , even from others too . The main thing , though we need to know and understand , is that Letters could not even truly , truly call JESUS LORD , lest HE had the SPIRIT . Which I think we all agree on this . I have no doubts or accusations on letters salvation . FOR all who truly call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved . AND their FRUITS will show whether they are HIS in heart or just in mouth . So I wish letters would not see these things as attacks . But he has to understand something , that while I am not saying He was not baptized in the Spirit , everywhere I read , at least in the BIBLE , the evidence that followed was tongues . HOWEVER I am not saying that letters DID NOT receive the baptism . What I am saying is , he needs to quit fighting against this and getting so offended so easily over this matter . Look , if anyone is saying or was saying , that letters is not saved or we know for a FACT he did not receive the baptism , then I would understand his strife . But so long as anyone is not accusing his conversion or even experience as false , then why get so offeneded all the time when the word tongues is even brought up . Sure not all speak with tongues , but some sure do . so the point is , WHY the constant fear or anger when anytime the word tongues is brought up . I mean as I said , SO long as none are falsey accusing or assuming things about letters , just cause he did not speak in tongues , because that would not be right . But if no one is doing that , then WHY ON EARTH always GET so worked up any times tongues is made mention of .
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Post by frienduff on Feb 12, 2020 11:43:37 GMT -5
I do wonder what it was the LORD had letters to do .
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Post by frienduff on Feb 12, 2020 11:48:14 GMT -5
here is the main thing and this is what matters . So let me give an example . lets say I was in a room with five men who spoke in tongues and five who did not . In the case of each and every one , there is but ONE way to TRULY KNOW if they follow CHRIST . Any guesses . THEIR FRUIT . YEP . THEIR FRUIT . to know if one has the SPIRIT , THE FRUIT BEARETH WITNESS . and that is gonna aggravate a LOT OF FOLKS , but TRUE IT IS . Not here it wont , I am sure all agree with this here . But that is the simple truth . I don't look for proof of Christ in anyone by means of miracles , gifts or etc . IF YOU WANNA KNOW if one who PROFESSES BY MOUTH that JESUS IS LORD , if they are TRULY TRULY HIS , EXAMINE THE FRUIT . NOT gonna make the inclusive group happy on this one , nor many others either . Cause we been taught , OH YA cant know they heart , OH they can sin hundreds of times a day , OH BUT THE PROOF aint In the mouth ALONE , the PROOF we are HIS and the PROOF we have the SPIRIT , IS THE FRUIT . YE SHALL KNOW THEM by their FRUITS .
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Post by frienduff on Feb 12, 2020 12:03:01 GMT -5
Better make something else real clear , for this shall stand against the inclusive lie . NOTICE I said if you want to KNOW if those WHO PROFESS JESUS as LORD by MOUTH are really HIS . Cause it goes without saying , IF THEY have NOT PROFESSED HIM as LORD , Beleiving from the heart that GOD has raised HIM from the dead WELL THEY DONT KNOW HIM , no matter how many good works they might do . But the point is if we want to know WHO is his , a sure fire way to find out WHO IS NOT , SEEKETH and watcheth THE FRUIT that comes out . For if a man can willfully walk in sin and justify his evil , and preach we can serve the flesh and have liberty to do so , THEY DONT KNOW HIM man . OH we got liberty all right , BUT LET NONE USE it as an occasion to serve that flesh . CAUSE that aint liberty , ITS BONDAGE . Liberty is being set free , and simply following CHRIST , WHO IS NOT the MINISTIR OF SIN . If we wanna know who has the SPIRIT , and remember if one has not the SPIRIT they are none of his , then know the body is dead because of sin , not living willfully IN THAT SIN . If we wanna know if one TRULY has the SPIRIT , GO TO and BEHOLD THE FRUIT . FOR the fruit of the SPIRIT is in ALL GOODNESS , RIGHTEOUS and TRUTH , PROVING what is acceptable unto GOD . Thus , if one comes preaching abomination which is NOT WELL PLEASING NOR ACCEPTABLE FROM GOD . OOOOOOOOOOPS NOT GOOD . Remember this well , for in this inclusive age we got many who walk in willfull sin and justify it and the churches either accept it as fine , or just say things like HEY we all sinners GOD understands , EITHER WAY they are reaping death unto the masses . A man who walks in darkness , is just that , A MAN WHO WALKS IN DARKNESS . there is no such thing as walking in half light and half dark . EITHER we serve the savoir or we serve the flesh and guess what , BOTH shall be rewareded , for GOD will not be mocked . IF we sow to the flesh , REAP CORRUPTOIN , but if we sow to the SPRIIT reap ever lasting life . GOD is not mocked what we sow to , is what we gonna reap . GOD is not mocked saying lip service that ones loves JESUS and yet their actions and deeds are disobedience unto HIM and HIS SAYINGS rest assured that one KNOWETH NOT , NOR LOVETH NOT CHRIST and lest repentance be given , I shudder for those at their end who walked in willfull sin and said WE GOT THE LIBERTY TO DO SO . cause that aint what the true grace of GOD does teach . It teaches us to DENY all ungodliness and wordly lusts , to be walking soberly , Righteously and godly in this present world . And if we err ,we confess and repent , we confess our faults , for IF we confess HE is faithful to FORGIVE US , but if we continue on in willfull sin , Don't expect a sacrifice for that man but rather as its said in Hebrews . IF we return to the mire and pit and repent not but are overcome , The latterend will be worse , and that is a fact . We must keep our HOPE IN CHRIST faithful to the end . To the end my friends , to the end . AND HE is our STRENGTH , HIS SPIRTI our guide , thus let all follow the SPIRIT and take not heed unto the flesh . And again if any errs confess and forsake . KEEP the pattern AS JESUS SET IT and if we have the SPIRIT we would keep that pattern the same . FOR ITS one of great safety , FOR THE LORD spoke it first and the aposetls spoke it second . We would be wise to heed CHRIST and those who did know him . and not men and Hermes man .
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Dezi
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Post by Dezi on Feb 12, 2020 13:41:32 GMT -5
I guess I've been missing out on this thread. I haven't read it all, but I would like to share when I was filled with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. I was 16 years old and had realized that I really needed God to be the Lord of my life. I had been running around with the wrong crowd from school and doing some ungodly things. I never was able to run far from the Lord back then... I always felt drawn back to Him. After giving my life back to God I got real involved with the youth group at my church. We had a very good new Youth Pastor who was all about Holy Living and teaching us so well. So, I was in English class at school and the teacher had started trying to make us doubt that God existed. Giving us strange topics to write about and new ideas to consider. It really started working on my mind. I was beginning to wonder if God even existed, and why I was following Him at all. This went on for about a week or two. Well, I was dating this guy from my youth group and he was in an ensemble for the church. A well known minister was doing a revival at a nearby church and this ensemble from my church was asked to sing there. Honestly, I didn't even want to go, but this guy I was dating wanted me to, so I went. The first part of the message was not even preaching, but was a slide show of where this man had visited Israel and was telling Bible prophecy from the slide show. Suddenly, this overwhelming feeling of how real God was came over me. I started praising God in my mind and feeling the presence of the Lord. Then the Preacher stopped talking and turned in my direction. He said, "Someone over there ---->>> needs to..." and that's all I heard and my body shot straight up and I started speaking in tongues. This went on for a few minutes and when I opened my eyes and looked around me the whole church was pacing around and many were speaking in tongues all around. I could stop it when I thought I should, but I didn't want to because the feeling was so incredible to me. So this went on for probably about 30 minutes. I felt like I was vomiting the words out of my mouth because it was such a strong feeling. It felt really good to be honest. Just very strong! So from that day forward I have never doubted that there is a God, and I know that I have truly experienced His presence! Anyway, just wanted to share my experience with you all!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 14:31:15 GMT -5
here is the main thing and this is what matters . So let me give an example . lets say I was in a room with five men who spoke in tongues and five who did not . In the case of each and every one , there is but ONE way to TRULY KNOW if they follow CHRIST . Any guesses . THEIR FRUIT . YEP . THEIR FRUIT . to know if one has the SPIRIT , THE FRUIT BEARETH WITNESS . and that is gonna aggravate a LOT OF FOLKS , but TRUE IT IS . Not here it wont , I am sure all agree with this here . But that is the simple truth . I don't look for proof of Christ in anyone by means of miracles , gifts or etc . IF YOU WANNA KNOW if one who PROFESSES BY MOUTH that JESUS IS LORD , if they are TRULY TRULY HIS , EXAMINE THE FRUIT . NOT gonna make the inclusive group happy on this one , nor many others either . Cause we been taught , OH YA cant know they heart , OH they can sin hundreds of times a day , OH BUT THE PROOF aint In the mouth ALONE , the PROOF we are HIS and the PROOF we have the SPIRIT , IS THE FRUIT . YE SHALL KNOW THEM by their FRUITS . ...which are spiritually discerned. It's like Jesus could only be spiritually discerned and those who could not discern Him wanted proof and evidence to satisfy their carnal mind and because their hearts weren't right. And He didn't pander to them by giving them any....and because to do so He would have had to step out of the will of the Father. Likewise we don't have to answer every question or demand put to us if it would not be seemly or the Lord does not lead us to do so.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 12, 2020 16:22:24 GMT -5
here is the main thing and this is what matters . So let me give an example . lets say I was in a room with five men who spoke in tongues and five who did not . In the case of each and every one , there is but ONE way to TRULY KNOW if they follow CHRIST . Any guesses . THEIR FRUIT . YEP . THEIR FRUIT . to know if one has the SPIRIT , THE FRUIT BEARETH WITNESS . and that is gonna aggravate a LOT OF FOLKS , but TRUE IT IS . Not here it wont , I am sure all agree with this here . But that is the simple truth . I don't look for proof of Christ in anyone by means of miracles , gifts or etc . IF YOU WANNA KNOW if one who PROFESSES BY MOUTH that JESUS IS LORD , if they are TRULY TRULY HIS , EXAMINE THE FRUIT . NOT gonna make the inclusive group happy on this one , nor many others either . Cause we been taught , OH YA cant know they heart , OH they can sin hundreds of times a day , OH BUT THE PROOF aint In the mouth ALONE , the PROOF we are HIS and the PROOF we have the SPIRIT , IS THE FRUIT . YE SHALL KNOW THEM by their FRUITS . ...which are spiritually discerned. It's like Jesus could only be spiritually discerned and those who could not discern Him wanted proof and evidence to satisfy their carnal mind and because their hearts weren't right. And He didn't pander to them by giving them any....and because to do so He would have had to step out of the will of the Father. Likewise we don't have to answer every question or demand put to us if it would not be seemly or the Lord does not lead us to do so. lambs don't let lambs ponder . If we are asked questions then answer . IF , however , folks aint heeding , there is no rule we gotta continue on .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 17:12:27 GMT -5
...which are spiritually discerned. It's like Jesus could only be spiritually discerned and those who could not discern Him wanted proof and evidence to satisfy their carnal mind and because their hearts weren't right. And He didn't pander to them by giving them any....and because to do so He would have had to step out of the will of the Father. Likewise we don't have to answer every question or demand put to us if it would not be seemly or the Lord does not lead us to do so. lambs don't let lambs ponder . If we are asked questions then answer . IF , however , folks aint heeding , there is no rule we gotta continue on . I've always thought it incredibly rude to back someone up against a wall....if someone doesn't want to answer a question that is completely their perogative. Even aside from other reasons there's a place for tact and good manners amongst the brethren. Just saying.
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Post by John on Feb 12, 2020 20:00:16 GMT -5
lambs don't let lambs ponder . If we are asked questions then answer . IF , however , folks aint heeding , there is no rule we gotta continue on . I've always thought it incredibly rude to back someone up against a wall....if someone doesn't want to answer a question that is completely their perogative. Even aside from other reasons there's a place for tact and good manners amongst the brethren. Just saying. From what I have seen, that didn't occur here. Asking questions is not backing a person into a corner. When a person comes forward and says they had an experience, it is natural to ask them about that experience. Just saying.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 20:43:57 GMT -5
I've always thought it incredibly rude to back someone up against a wall....if someone doesn't want to answer a question that is completely their perogative. Even aside from other reasons there's a place for tact and good manners amongst the brethren. Just saying. From what I have seen, that didn't occur here. Asking questions is not backing a person into a corner. When a person comes forward and says they had an experience, it is natural to ask them about that experience. Just saying.
I was responding to what was said about lambs not letting lambs wonder or ponder. It was starting to sound like a person is obligated to answer questions that they prefer not to.
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Post by John on Feb 12, 2020 21:27:05 GMT -5
From what I have seen, that didn't occur here. Asking questions is not backing a person into a corner. When a person comes forward and says they had an experience, it is natural to ask them about that experience. Just saying.
I was responding to what was said about lambs not letting lambs wonder or ponder. It was starting to sound like a person is obligated to answer questions that they prefer not to. If Letters doesn't want to answer something, or anyone else for that matter, they can just say so. There is no need for interrogations. If we are dealing with someone like one poster in particular (not you), that demands immediate answers from everyone else, those kind of people should answer questions posed to them. Letters doesn't go around interrogating others, and if this is something he would just rather not talk about, that is fine. The reason I wanted to know his experience is because it might shed light on things where it would put the matter to rest. Of course, you never know? It might make things worse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 7:36:48 GMT -5
I was responding to what was said about lambs not letting lambs wonder or ponder. It was starting to sound like a person is obligated to answer questions that they prefer not to. If Letters doesn't want to answer something, or anyone else for that matter, they can just say so. There is no need for interrogations. If we are dealing with someone like one poster in particular (not you), that demands immediate answers from everyone else, those kind of people should answer questions posed to them. Letters doesn't go around interrogating others, and if this is something he would just rather not talk about, that is fine. The reason I wanted to know his experience is because it might shed light on things where it would put the matter to rest. Of course, you never know? It might make things worse.
A person is free in the Lord to just ignore or side-step questions that they prefer not to answer. That is usually wiser and more tactful and less confrontational than directly refusing to answer, it's just a part of normal human interaction. I don't need to wonder why Letters would rather not answer such direct questioning.... understand well how it could be for any number of reasons, since I've had some precious experiences with the Lord as well. And I don't consider that those experiences belong to me...they belong to the Lord and only He can lead one to speak about them or not, as HE wills, not as I will or any other person wills. Please don't get it into your head that I have been to the third heaven, but remember how Paul said it was not permitted to him to speak of certain things, so the Lord doesn't lead us to pressure people to speak of their experiences with Him. It is even one error in the false prophetic movement how they are always boasting in their experiences.
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Post by John on Feb 13, 2020 8:33:16 GMT -5
If Letters doesn't want to answer something, or anyone else for that matter, they can just say so. There is no need for interrogations. If we are dealing with someone like one poster in particular (not you), that demands immediate answers from everyone else, those kind of people should answer questions posed to them. Letters doesn't go around interrogating others, and if this is something he would just rather not talk about, that is fine. The reason I wanted to know his experience is because it might shed light on things where it would put the matter to rest. Of course, you never know? It might make things worse.
A person is free in the Lord to just ignore or side-step questions that they prefer not to answer. That is usually wiser and more tactful and less confrontational than directly refusing to answer, it's just a part of normal human interaction. I don't need to wonder why Letters would rather not answer such direct questioning.... understand well how it could be for any number of reasons, since I've had some precious experiences with the Lord as well. And I don't consider that those experiences belong to me...they belong to the Lord and only He can lead one to speak about them or not, as HE wills, not as I will or any other person wills. Please don't get it into your head that I have been to the third heaven, but remember how Paul said it was not permitted to him to speak of certain things, so the Lord doesn't lead us to pressure people to speak of their experiences with Him. It is even one error in the false prophetic movement how they are always boasting in their experiences. In the example you just gave, Paul stated how he was not permitted to speak certain things. He didn't side step anything, and side stepping and ignoring is not normal human interaction for most people I associate with. I don't see that as wise or tactful. The person could state as Paul did that they are not permitted to reveal something, or say that the experience is deeply personal, so they would rather not say. That is better than ignoring a question. Maybe among your close friends, it is considered wise and tactful to side step and ignore questions, but not where I come from.
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Post by John on Feb 13, 2020 8:36:16 GMT -5
I do wonder what it was the LORD had letters to do . I think it is perfectly reasonable to wonder.
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