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Post by letmebefrank on Nov 24, 2019 17:15:23 GMT -5
Very Intro Forum !! I have to get and nail down the theology that makes this forum TICK! Im getting a handle I think. There is a Deff Pattern of thinking HERE!Enjoy
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Post by Giller on Nov 24, 2019 17:24:42 GMT -5
I could show you lots of people I know in real life who were healed by Jesus. But what difference does it make? I don’t have time to sit around defending and explaining every detail to convince people it really was Jesus. MMN! part of the Charismatic movement are We? and I see your leader {NOT My words } is into the Pen>holy something? and Im just threading what I read from this forum {NOT MY WORDS} I feel GodJesus moves and knows all >Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. 7Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. But to see lots of people healed by Jesus>MMMM Tell me the people Please?>> I have the time if you do and Im sure the people on this forum would like it TOO! Some healings are of God, and some are not, yet healings still do truly happen even today. My former pastor somewhere in the 2000's prayed for a person on their death bed, and the doctors said that they had no chance of recovery, that they were going to die, yet Jesus healed that person, and not longer after they were out of the hospital. I have had healing concerning asthma. And every now and again I hear of some healings, maybe not as much as a it should be, but it happens. And concerning Smith Wilgglesworth, I believe it was around 7 people or so that got raised from the dead.
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Post by Giller on Nov 24, 2019 17:25:59 GMT -5
Very Intro Forum !! I have to get and nail down the theology that makes this forum TICK! Im getting a handle I think. There is a Deff Pattern of thinking HERE!Enjoy Maybe you should look into your own theology !!!!!!!
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Nov 24, 2019 17:29:22 GMT -5
I could show you lots of people I know in real life who were healed by Jesus. But what difference does it make? I don’t have time to sit around defending and explaining every detail to convince people it really was Jesus. MMN! part of the Charismatic movement are We? and I see your leader {NOT My words } is into the Pen>holy something? and Im just threading what I read from this forum {NOT MY WORDS} I feel GodJesus moves and knows all >Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. 7Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. But to see lots of people healed by Jesus>MMMM Tell me the people Please?>> I have the time if you do and Im sure the people on this forum would like it TOO! Brother I don’t want to provoke you to sin by making you oppose me on this. Angry Christians often say sinful things when they don’t like something, and I will not be party to provoking you. This is why I don’t speak much about it in public. Christians who don’t accept it will not accept it, and I don’t see this as necessary to argue over. Believe me or not. I will not go through an hour long interrogation.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Nov 25, 2019 6:20:24 GMT -5
...I could show you lots of people I know in real life who were healed by Jesus. But what difference does it make? I don’t have time to sit around defending and explaining every detail to convince people it really was Jesus. If a true believer invoked a healing and it happened then it was Jesus. PERIOD.
“...they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” - Mark 16:18
There is no chance of a true believer invoking a healing and then a deceit takes place. God wouldn't allow that.
Blessings!
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Post by 2fw8212a on Nov 25, 2019 6:34:06 GMT -5
...I could show you lots of people I know in real life who were healed by Jesus. But what difference does it make? I don’t have time to sit around defending and explaining every detail to convince people it really was Jesus. If a true believer invoked a healing and it happened then it was Jesus. PERIOD.
“...they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” - Mark 16:18
There is no chance of a true believer invoking a healing and then a deceit takes place. God wouldn't allow that.
Blessings! And I believe demons will not simply cease to manifest a disease to benefit the Truth (Jesus, the true gospel).
Except, obviously, by the power of God.
“...he cannot contend with Him who is mightier than he.” - Ecclesiastes 6:10
But I believe they can cease to manifest a disease so the person is trapped in deceit (e.g., some random idol healed me).
“So I gave them over to their own stubborn heart, To walk in their own counsels.” - Psalm 81:12
And God wouldn't allow someone to receive a fake healing by Jesus, because it doesn't exist. When Jesus heals, He heals.
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Post by John on Nov 25, 2019 8:03:05 GMT -5
Very Intro Forum !! I have to get and nail down the theology that makes this forum TICK! Im getting a handle I think. There is a Deff Pattern of thinking HERE!Enjoy That is true, and it has been since you arrived and brought that deaf pattern of thinking here, but recognizing it is half the battle. Keep listening and learning and we will be happy to educate you in sound doctrine. I can be just as sarcastic as the next person, but what is that accomplishing?
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Post by John on Nov 25, 2019 8:06:22 GMT -5
...I could show you lots of people I know in real life who were healed by Jesus. But what difference does it make? I don’t have time to sit around defending and explaining every detail to convince people it really was Jesus. If a true believer invoked a healing and it happened then it was Jesus. PERIOD.
“...they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” - Mark 16:18
There is no chance of a true believer invoking a healing and then a deceit takes place. God wouldn't allow that.
Blessings! I would have to agree with you on that.
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Post by Giller on Nov 25, 2019 11:06:23 GMT -5
We truly do have to test the fruits, there is even an example in the bible of a possible healing that is not of God, here is the scripture:
Rev 13:3 (3) And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
See it was one of his heads, and not necessarily the beast himself or as a whole that was healed, but just one of his heads.
And the bible also says this:
Rev 16:13-14 (13) And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. (14) For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Spirits of devils working miracles, hmmm.
Also it says this:
2Th 2:9 (9) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
If things are truly done in the name of Jesus, and they are referring to the Jesus of the bible (not another Jesus), then of course it will be or should be genuine, but we have to test the spirits.
And the bible also says this:
Mat 7:21-23 (21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These people were never known by God, at any time (I never knew you), they were not truly doers of the word, yet they called Jesus Lord, and proclaimed to have done this or that in the name of Jesus, yet they had bad fruit.
Mat 7:18-20 (18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
And also we have to remember the sons of Sceva, which they used the name of Jesus, yet they were not able to cast out the demons, in fact the demons went on them in some fashion.
I have heard of some seems to be true healings even done in the name of Mary (though not many), all I know is let us be alert in these days, let us not just accept any spirit, anything, or be gullible, let us test the spirits so to see whether they are of God or not.
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Post by Giller on Nov 25, 2019 11:14:34 GMT -5
Can a believer, if not careful fall into some type of deception? Yes, in fact a believer can eventually fall away if not careful.
Now I do not believe that a true, genuine believer can be possessed of the devil, but he can be oppressed, or suppressed of the devil and even eventually fall into deception if not careful, and God knows were a person is at, but nevertheless let us be careful.
Love yous all in the Lord!!!
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Nov 25, 2019 11:22:02 GMT -5
Here is the issue at hand. Put aside satanic/demonic lying signs. We all know witchcraft is possible. I don’t think anyone in this group thinks every “miracle” is automatically from God. This is a straw man. The real issue is when a devout, sincere Christian seeks the Lord’s help, they are soberly testing things, they are trying to their best to confirm things in line with Scripture, and they get an answered prayer. When you’ve fleeced all you can fleece, tested all you can test, and doctrined all you can doctrine, can a sincere Christian in this situation be led astray by a phony demonic magic trick?
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Post by Giller on Nov 25, 2019 11:41:26 GMT -5
Here is the issue at hand. Put aside satanic/demonic lying signs. We all know witchcraft is possible. I don’t think anyone in this group thinks every “miracle” is automatically from God. This is a straw man. The real issue is when a devout, sincere Christian seeks the Lord’s help, they are soberly testing things, they are trying to their best to confirm things in line with Scripture, and they get an answered prayer. When you’ve fleeced all you can fleece, tested all you can test, and doctrined all you can doctrine, can a sincere Christian in this situation be led astray by a phony demonic magic trick? In this scenario, if they tested all they can test and so forth, most likely not.
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Post by Giller on Nov 25, 2019 11:45:15 GMT -5
But in saying this, we still have to examine our hearts now and again, because the bible says that the heart is deceitful above all things.
Every now and again, I eventually see, oh maybe this thing was not of God, in the way I did it or whatever the case.
For me i do not find what I shown was a straw man argument at all, but in the specific scenario you gave, ya it is as you say it (not being deceived once these things have been exhausted).
And I always remind myself that I have not attained (this is what I do).
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Nov 25, 2019 12:04:21 GMT -5
Cessationists use all the Scriptures against false miracles. They hold a line that absolutely no spiritual activity is from God today. They don’t care if you were on your face in worship halfway through Amazing Grace when the power of God came over you. No excuses, no allowances.. All of it is witchcraft to them. They will not listen to any kind of testimony that you know for sure it was the power of God. According to them you know nothing and you are incapable of discerning.
We had a member in our midst at one time who did this to us concerning tongues. She was quite convinced that tongues are not real today. No matter how many testimonies she had from all of us that we were in a good solid service hearing good solid doctrine when the power of God fell. She was having none of it. We were deceived, period.
If none of us are capable of ever really knowing for sure, and the heart is deceitful above all else, and there’s a constant moving target, then why did Paul tell Corinth he preached to them in the power of God? How did those Corinthians know for sure that they were not being deceived by their wicked heart when Paul moved by the power of God?
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Post by Giller on Nov 25, 2019 12:27:01 GMT -5
Cessationists use all the Scriptures against false miracles. They hold a line that absolutely no spiritual activity is from God today. They don’t care if you were on your face in worship halfway through Amazing Grace when the power of God came over you. No excuses, no allowances.. All of it is witchcraft to them. They will not listen to any kind of testimony that you know for sure it was the power of God. According to them you know nothing and you are incapable of discerning. We had a member in our midst at one time who did this to us concerning tongues. She was quite convinced that tongues are not real today. No matter how many testimonies she had from all of us that we were in a good solid service hearing good solid doctrine when the power of God fell. She was having none of it. We were deceived, period. If none of us are capable of ever really knowing for sure, and the heart is deceitful above all else, and there’s a constant moving target, then why did Paul tell Corinth he preached to them in the power of God? How did those Corinthians know for sure that they were not being deceived by their wicked heart when Paul moved by the power of God? You know that I am not a cessationist, and I think at times it is very obvious when it is God. There are times it is so obvious that it is God, that you know that you know it is, but just because times like these happen, does not mean that we do not take heed to the rest of scripture which says to test the spirits, and knowing them by their fruit, it is not all one way or the other , we have to take heed to all of scripture.
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