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Post by Giller on Dec 22, 2019 15:03:08 GMT -5
Music styles
It seems that music like Jazz, country, soft rock (I am not talking about full blown rock), had their roots, and most of these were somewhere in the 1900's.
Now bluegrass, seems to of had it's roots somewhere in the 1600's.
So these music styles seemed to of had their roots.
Now we have to remember that, when the world brings about a music style, it is not done by the Spirit of God, nor are they capable of doing so by the Spirit of God, for they operate by the spirit of this world.
1Co 2:12 (12) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Now it is far easier to discern, full blown perversions like say Heavy metal, and even rap (though heavy metal falls more into the chaotic realm, and Heavy Metal is far easier to discern even than rap).
But things like soft rock, Jazz, country and bluegrass, are far harder to discern in the realm of the fleshy works that follow them, and remember it is the world that has brought these things about, and they are incapable of bringing about music that is truly by the Spirit of God, and played in that Spirit.
And I believe that Jazz, country, soft rock, and bluegrass, are just slight perversions of God's true music, but nevertheless still perversions and worldly.
Deu 12:29-32 (29) When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; (30) Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. (31) Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. (32) What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
These idol worshiping Heathen no doubt had their music, and worshiped their gods, and God does not want us to serve him, by any of their means, which includes their music.
Grouping styles/ and God's way
Now according to the bible, God does not group his music into styles, he just calls it worship and praise.
But here is what the Christian church of today has done:
(https://www.musicgenreslist.com/music-inspiration/)
(...Inspiration Music Genres (Christian & Gospel)
What is Inspirational Music anyway? In a nutshell, it encompasses all kinds of genres from Gospel to Christian to Adult Contemporary, Children’s music, Classical Crossover and Instrumental.
-CCM -Christian Metal -Christian Pop -Christian Rap -Christian Rock... -Qawwali (with thx to Jillian Edwards) -Southern Gospel)
Now there are many more than this, but I wanted to zero in on just a few.
And that is what the modern day church has tried to do to God's, suppose to be, music.
But God's intention was not at all any genre, just praise and worship, but man has made a mess of God's music, and essentially, in many ways adopted the music of the world and made it Christian, and made genres out of it, just like the world does to their music.
But God's intention was not genres, just worship and praise, which is to praise him in singing, and with instruments.
Psa 150:3-5 (3) Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp. (4) Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. (5) Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
So instruments in and of itself is not wrong.
But he wants us to praise him with our instruments, through our spirits, by the Spirit of God, and in truthfulness.
Now one can be playing the saxophone unto God, and some might be thinking it is Jazz music, or someone might be playing the banjo, and some might be thinking of country music, because they use these instruments in their music styles, but if it is truly done unto the Lord, it may sound a bit countryish, or Jazzy, or like soft rock, but it truly will not be any of these genres, for these genres were brought about by the world, through the spirit of this world.
Now they may be slight perversions of God's music but nevertheless perversions.
So the music might sound countryish, but it truly will not be so, for there will be a difference in some form or manner, just because it is done through the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of God produces something different than the Spirit of this world.
God does not put his music into genres, but rather if the music is not done in the Spirit of God, it is not his, plain and simple.
So if God does not put his music into genres, then why do we???
We need to see things his way and adjust our ways to his ways.
What is the difference?
Isa 10:27 (27) And it shall come to pass in that day, that his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and his yoke from off thy neck, and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing.
Now there may be a certain context to this verse, but nevertheless, it is the anointing in one form or another that breaks the yoke.
The anointing through the Spirit of God makes the difference, is the music done through the anointing or by the Spirit of God? Or is it being done through the Spirit of this world?
That is the difference, and you do know things by the fruit it produces.
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Post by Giller on Dec 22, 2019 15:15:16 GMT -5
We have gotten our eyes off of simple worship, and gotten our eyes on genres.
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Post by John on Dec 22, 2019 20:17:36 GMT -5
We have gotten our eyes off of simple worship, and gotten our eyes on genres. Thanks Giller for taking the time to expand upon this. This is a difficult topic, because it is not spelled out in scripture. I do agree with you that true worship, which is done in Spirit and in truth, is not going to be able to be given a label, or a genre.
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Post by Giller on Dec 25, 2019 0:17:35 GMT -5
The bible gives us the things to look for, discernment wise. We can see things by the bible if they are right or wrong, by the fruit it produces. There are things not mentioned word for word in the bible, like yoga, yet we know that yoga is wrong, through it's roots, through it's fruits, and just by reading the bible, in comparing the yoga's ways to the bible ways, which do not match up. Well music wise you can know it as well, through it's roots, through it's fruits, and so on. The bible says these 2 things: Deu 12:29-32 (29) When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; (30) Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. (31) Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. (32) What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it. | Amo 5:22-23 (22) Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. (23) Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.
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An instrument can be played from a wrongly motivated heart, and concerning the world (which are idol worshipers), which today it may be they worship a rock star, and so on, God does not want us to serve him the same way they serve their gods. I know in bible times they were actually worshiping specific gods, and made idols to them, and would sing songs to them, and no doubt played music. Well we are not to do so as they did, towards our God, or while worshiping our God. God is an holy God, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. God says in Deuteronomy to not add, or diminish from what he said about not serving him as the heathen served their gods. I think the problem in church circles why they have a problem obeying this commandment, it is because of unbelief. But if people just believed this scripture and actually applied it to their lives, then discernment would not be as hard for them. In fact we are called to be doers of the word and not hearers only. When we are just hearers only, we deceive ourselves. And concerning things like country music, Jazz, rock and heavy metal and so forth, all of these have worldly roots. All of them, in some fashion, produce a work of the flesh, and it may be more pronounced in some certain styles than others, but nonetheless it is there. One can play even country music, and all kinds of the works of the flesh can be stirred, such as strutting your stuff, doing the boogie woogie, were your bum is extremely pronounced, it is not a humble posture, and strutting your stuff is not about humbleness. And many country music singers get stirred up in many different ways, it can produce various aspects of the works of the flesh, but one thing I have noticed is that, all of these worldly styles, is all about self. They are self centered and it may be that they are self centered in this area, or in another area, but nevertheless it is self centered, and not truly God centered. 1Jn 2:15 (15) Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. Now God's music is not a genre, he calls music that is truly done unto him, just simply praise and worship. And that should be the focus, and not copying the world or a specific genre. Yes one may sound a bit countryish when they play unto the Lord unto some, or one may sound a bit like soft rock unto some, but in truth it will not be either of these genres, for it will be just simply praise and worship unto the Lord. Our music is not of this world, nor does it come from the spirit of this world, but our music is of God.
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Post by Giller on Dec 25, 2019 0:25:40 GMT -5
In my next subject on praise and worship, I want to talk about the postures mentioned in the bible.
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Post by Giller on Dec 25, 2019 10:15:37 GMT -5
1Jn 2:15-16 (15) Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (16) For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
In one form or another, worldly music does produce these things, and the pride of life can hit many areas, even all kinds of boastings in the flesh in the realm of partying, or even a type of feeling of boasting of one self (I am hip), but also of course it touches areas of life in boasting about what you have, prestige and so on.
Then there is the lust of the flesh, which can hit many areas, and not just sexual areas.
And concerning the lust of the eyes, you can want the praises of men, and seek to stir up the crowd, so that results occur after a certain way, whether it be a certain way of people dancing to your music or whatever, or some type of praise you seek.
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Post by John on Dec 25, 2019 10:25:37 GMT -5
An instrument can be played from a wrongly motivated heart, and concerning the world (which are idol worshipers), which today it may be they worship a rock star, and so on, God does not want us to serve him the same way they serve their gods. I know in bible times they were actually worshiping specific gods, and made idols to them, and would sing songs to them, and no doubt played music. Well we are not to do so as they did, towards our God, or while worshiping our God. God is an holy God, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. When it comes to entertainment, we do seem to make idols out of singers and musicians. That is where the emphasis is, on people. That can be true in secular and Christian music.
We go to see singers, groups, who are popular. When I would go to a secular concert, it would be to see people who wrote and performed music I loved. When I would go to a southern gospel event, it would be the same thing. I was going to see individuals that were popular, and their being seen as someone great was based on their ability to stay on music charts and therefore being played on the radio. The focus was on people, not God. What I am seeing here is a bigger problem than musical styles. It is more about idolizing people.
The same thing can also be true of Preachers. We sometimes put them up on a pedestal. When a big name evangelist comes to town, why do people flock to see them, but pass over going to local churches? This is about where we place our emphasis, on God or on man? When I was young, why would I go out of my way to go see Jimmy Swaggart? Why was he more special than another sincere preacher that was less famous? Why do people pay a lot of money to see gospel singers who are well known, but won't go to see local singers who are not well knowns for free? I have thought a lot about this, but I am not sure where we cross the line from admiration to idol worship?
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Post by Giller on Dec 25, 2019 10:34:13 GMT -5
An instrument can be played from a wrongly motivated heart, and concerning the world (which are idol worshipers), which today it may be they worship a rock star, and so on, God does not want us to serve him the same way they serve their gods. I know in bible times they were actually worshiping specific gods, and made idols to them, and would sing songs to them, and no doubt played music. Well we are not to do so as they did, towards our God, or while worshiping our God. God is an holy God, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. When it comes to entertainment, we do seem to make idols out of singers and musicians. That is where the emphasis is, on people. That can be true in secular and Christian music.
We go to see singers, groups, who are popular. When I would go to a secular concert, it would be to see people who wrote and performed music I loved. When I would go to a southern gospel event, it would be the same thing. I was going to see individuals that were popular, and their being seen as someone great was based on their ability to stay on music charts and therefore being played on the radio. The focus was on people, not God. What I am seeing here is a bigger problem than musical styles. It is more about idolizing people.
The same thing can also be true of Preachers. We sometimes put them up on a pedestal. When a big name evangelist comes to town, why do people flock to see them, but pass over going to local churches? This is about where we place our emphasis, on God or on man? When I was young, why would I go out of my way to go see Jimmy Swaggart? Why was he more special than another sincere preacher that was less famous? Why do people pay a lot of money to see gospel singers who are well known, but won't go to see local singers who are not well knowns for free? I have thought a lot about this, but I am not sure where we cross the line from admiration to idol worship?
Ya there is the problem of idolizing there is no doubt. Admiration is fine of course, but we do have to be careful, and in truth we have to be careful in all things, including how things are done.
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Post by John on Dec 25, 2019 10:48:38 GMT -5
When it comes to entertainment, we do seem to make idols out of singers and musicians. That is where the emphasis is, on people. That can be true in secular and Christian music.
We go to see singers, groups, who are popular. When I would go to a secular concert, it would be to see people who wrote and performed music I loved. When I would go to a southern gospel event, it would be the same thing. I was going to see individuals that were popular, and their being seen as someone great was based on their ability to stay on music charts and therefore being played on the radio. The focus was on people, not God. What I am seeing here is a bigger problem than musical styles. It is more about idolizing people.
The same thing can also be true of Preachers. We sometimes put them up on a pedestal. When a big name evangelist comes to town, why do people flock to see them, but pass over going to local churches? This is about where we place our emphasis, on God or on man? When I was young, why would I go out of my way to go see Jimmy Swaggart? Why was he more special than another sincere preacher that was less famous? Why do people pay a lot of money to see gospel singers who are well known, but won't go to see local singers who are not well knowns for free? I have thought a lot about this, but I am not sure where we cross the line from admiration to idol worship?
Ya there is the problem of idolizing there is no doubt. Admiration is fine of course, but we do have to be careful, and in truth we have to be careful in all things, including how things are done. What this all shows me is just how flawed we are as a human race. Look how easy it is for us to get caught up in things like idol worship or putting our focus on man rather than God. Look how easily we can find ourselves copying the world and not realizing we are doing anything wrong, just doing what we know to do. It shows how much the best people need grace. Let me make it clear that I do not believe that based on our inability to be perfect, I accept the nonsense we are free to do anything we want and remain saved, because I know better than that, but it does show how our best can be as filthy rags. It does show how much we need Jesus to be saved. It shows how that the righteous are scarcely saved. All we can do is our best, and as God reveals things to us, we need to be willing to make changes.
This has been a very good topic, and it certainly has made me think about our priorities and why we do what we do. It is so easy to be influenced by the world system.
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Post by Giller on Dec 25, 2019 10:59:48 GMT -5
Now I will get into the issue of posture.
Here is a definition of the word posture:
(https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/posture)
(Posture noun
1a: the position or bearing of the body whether characteristic or assumed for a special purpose
erect posture
b: the pose of a model or artistic figure
2: state or condition at a given time especially with respect to capability in particular circumstances
maintain a competitive posture in the market
3: a conscious mental or outward behavioral attitude)
Now I am not saying that every one has to have the same exact posture when worshiping the Lord, but it does in one way, have to reflect humbleness, humility, adoration towards God, and reverence.
Here are some things that God says:
Psa 63:4 (4) Thus will I bless thee while I live: I will lift up my hands in thy name.
Psa 95:6 (6) O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.
Psa 47:1 (1) To the chief Musician, A Psalm for the sons of Korah. O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph.
Luk 6:23 (23) Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
Mat 26:39 (39) And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
It talks about bowing down and kneeling, clapping ones hands, leaping for joy, and the verse in Matthew 26:39, is actually talking about Jesus falling on his face, and praying, now this may not have been done while praising or worshiping in song, but nevertheless, one can potentially fall on their face before God while worshiping because of the presence of God.
And of course the bible mentions dancing before the Lord, which it would not be for the sake of bringing attention to self, or for the sake of strutting your stuff.
And you see nothing about head banging here, or fleshly dancing, or even choreographed dancing.
And of course one can sit down or stand up while worshiping God, but in the end, you can do even things like lifting up your hands, and either be doing it from a right heart, or from a wrong heart, depending on motive.
But in and of themselves, these are good postures.
And concerning music, sometimes people have a hard time discerning certain ones for various reasons, and one of the reasons may be that people make an idol out of their music, they make their boast of their music, and boast in the flesh, and that is idol worship.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Jan 12, 2020 6:40:48 GMT -5
Giller,
I've been thinking about your posts and the topic of discernment.
I was wondering if you had examples of the right kind of music that worships God.
I will say that I disagree so far on your assessment of Christian rap. However, I think the fact that you examine things according to Scripture is commendable. It has got me thinking about a lot of choices I've made in the past and options in front of me. You mentioned that we should examine the fruit of the music.
I will try thinking about that when it come to music and other activities.
I truly want to spend every moment under the direction and Lordship of Christ. I don't want to "turn off" the Holy Spirit.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Jan 13, 2020 10:11:50 GMT -5
To me, rap and rock are carnal, not spiritual, and shouldn't be part of worship.
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Post by Giller on Jan 13, 2020 11:19:03 GMT -5
Giller, I've been thinking about your posts and the topic of discernment. I was wondering if you had examples of the right kind of music that worships God. I will say that I disagree so far on your assessment of Christian rap. However, I think the fact that you examine things according to Scripture is commendable. It has got me thinking about a lot of choices I've made in the past and options in front of me. You mentioned that we should examine the fruit of the music. I will try thinking about that when it come to music and other activities. I truly want to spend every moment under the direction and Lordship of Christ. I don't want to "turn off" the Holy Spirit. Do not focus on a genre, or style of music, just simply focus on the Lord, and God will enlighten you, and the fruit will show up of what kind it is, but be careful to not be lead by emotion, or what someone may be usually drawn to, just be drawn to the Lord, and more and more you will know. Some things are harder to discern than others, but bit by bit God reveals it to us. God's ways produces reverence, adoration towards him, humility, humbleness, gentleness, our music being focused heaven wards, our song being focused heaven ward, and not earthly wards. Earthly wards genders to the flesh, and tends to bring in some type of idol worship.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Jan 13, 2020 11:51:14 GMT -5
Giller, I've been thinking about your posts and the topic of discernment. I was wondering if you had examples of the right kind of music that worships God. I will say that I disagree so far on your assessment of Christian rap. However, I think the fact that you examine things according to Scripture is commendable. It has got me thinking about a lot of choices I've made in the past and options in front of me. You mentioned that we should examine the fruit of the music. I will try thinking about that when it come to music and other activities. I truly want to spend every moment under the direction and Lordship of Christ. I don't want to "turn off" the Holy Spirit. Do not focus on a genre, or style of music, just simply focus on the Lord, and God will enlighten you, and the fruit will show up of what kind it is, but be careful to not be lead by emotion, or what someone may be usually drawn to, just be drawn to the Lord, and more and more you will know. Some things are harder to discern than others, but bit by bit God reveals it to us. God's ways produces reverence, adoration towards him, humility, humbleness, gentleness, our music being focused heaven wards, our song being focused heaven ward, and not earthly wards. Earthly wards genders to the flesh, and tends to bring in some type of idol worship. I can't imagine being in church, and led into worship by someone rapping scripture or poetry or doctrine. The same thing with rock music. I don't know that it is sinful to listen to, but it doesn't go with worship.
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Post by Giller on Jan 13, 2020 14:40:10 GMT -5
I think as being a Christian who has new life in him, that we should not allow ourselves to be attracted to the world's music.
God wants us to glorify him in all things.
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