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Post by solid on May 26, 2020 14:33:51 GMT -5
GOD allowed the devil to persecute job . just as HE allows it against us too . ears are on sister . But whatever is allowed to come against us , GOD WILL WORK IT for the GOOD of those who love HIM . JOB repented . WHEN GOD spoke to JOB and exposed his error , JOB repented . ITS Like james once said , TRIBULATIONS work patience , LET patience have her perfect work . IT was satan persecuting job , but GOD ALLOWED IT . always there is a reason KNOWN TO GOD for why each one must suffer . And always if we have patience and endure it , IT WORKS to our own good . Job grew . oh BUT HE DID . HE GREW from all of it . Not disagreeing at all with what you are saying here brother....all that is said in the New Testament has it's origins in the old Testament. But I think the specifics of what those scriptures show are being missed. Anyhow we really cannot know the depths of how merciful the Lord is until we truly come to know the depths of our unworthiness, which it was the mercy of God to show Job his, and then to show him the depths of His great mercy to forgive and cleanse. Job was a righteous believer, but he still needed to be sanctified. And this is a work of the Lord because we are His workmanship. The devil brings accusations to condemn us. Why would we come into agreement with him?
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Post by watchful on May 26, 2020 15:42:08 GMT -5
Job sinned in things he said when being tested. His friends kept saying his sins were the cause of the attack, and that wasn't true. John is right about that. I think it is awful anyone says Jesus wants us to agree quickly with the devil. That's what she's saying, no mistaking that. Job was at fault in being righteous in his own eyes....he did not see himself as unworthy.....he still needed to be sanctified. His journey is the believer's journey, brother. It has to do with how we overcome the accuser of the brethren who accuses us before the Lord day and night. We are not to agree with the lies of the devil, of course, that's not what this is talking about, but repentance is when we are undone and we can finally say in the glaring light, Yes, guilty as charged!
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on May 26, 2020 17:05:28 GMT -5
Job sinned in things he said when being tested. His friends kept saying his sins were the cause of the attack, and that wasn't true. John is right about that. I think it is awful anyone says Jesus wants us to agree quickly with the devil. That's what she's saying, no mistaking that. Job was at fault in being righteous in his own eyes....he did not see himself as unworthy.....he still needed to be sanctified. His journey is the believer's journey, brother. It has to do with how we overcome the accuser of the brethren who accuses us before the Lord day and night. We are not to agree with the lies of the devil, of course, that's not what this is talking about, but repentance is when we are undone and we can finally say in the glaring light, Yes, guilty as charged! Let me see if I understand you. You are saying that since Jesus said to agree with our adversaries quickly, and the devil is our adversary, we are to agree with him or come to an agreement with him when he accuses us, because chances are, the accusations are true, You are saying Job was too prideful to realize he was a rotten sinner that deserved the evil that came upon him, and if not for his pride, theses things wouldn't have happened to him. We should learn from Job. Is that close?
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Post by frienduff on May 26, 2020 18:53:51 GMT -5
Job sinned in things he said when being tested. His friends kept saying his sins were the cause of the attack, and that wasn't true. John is right about that. I think it is awful anyone says Jesus wants us to agree quickly with the devil. That's what she's saying, no mistaking that. correct . it was not sin at all that brought it on . but when he was tested he did mess it up . oh but praise the LORD , he sent another man and that man corrected job then GOD himself also corrected job and job repented .
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Post by frienduff on May 26, 2020 18:58:57 GMT -5
Job was at fault in being righteous in his own eyes....he did not see himself as unworthy.....he still needed to be sanctified. His journey is the believer's journey, brother. It has to do with how we overcome the accuser of the brethren who accuses us before the Lord day and night. We are not to agree with the lies of the devil, of course, that's not what this is talking about, but repentance is when we are undone and we can finally say in the glaring light, Yes, guilty as charged! Let me see if I understand you. You are saying that since Jesus said to agree with our adversaries quickly, and the devil is our adversary, we are to agree with him or come to an agreement with him when he accuses us, because chances are, the accusations are true, You are saying Job was too prideful to realize he was a rotten sinner that deserved the evil that came upon him, and if not for his pride, theses things wouldn't have happened to him. We should learn from Job. Is that close?I have seen other teachings . from other men . and it goes to say , that anytime one is correcting , or seperates themselves from the company of those who wont repent , they get accused of being SELF RIGHTEOUS . and other things . bascially if you are warning folks not to sin , they consider it self righteous . there is a big move going on with this self righteous thing . NOT saying watchful is under it , because there is such a thing as self righteousness and sadly IT IS on many so called christains . But warning , exhorting , having order in the church teaching , rebuking , seperating , following the pattern JESUS taught and the apostels taught , IS NOT being self righteous , yet many accuse us of this . Again not saying watchful is . I was just warning us to be on gaurd for it . Now on this note , i am gonna double down on warnings , on reminders of all things , all sayings of the KING and all sayings of the apostels .
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Post by frienduff on May 26, 2020 19:01:44 GMT -5
Let us increase our reading of our bibles . JESUS and all His reminders must be sounded and reminded , the apostels sayings must be sounded and reminded . THEY STIRRED UP the people well we must to . REMIND only more that we must be not hearers only but doers of the word . Remind EVERYTHING JESUS EVER SAID and the apostels ever said . I want all to start flooding this place with those reminders . Let us get so dug in to them and talk of them and remind of them , only more .
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Post by John on May 26, 2020 21:34:50 GMT -5
I want to take the time to review a few things about Job. First of all, is it true the Job was in sin, and this opened up the door for the devil's attacks on him? Before the attacks, and then after they began, here is what God says about Job.
Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in all the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Job 1:8
Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. Job 2:3
There is false teaching going around that claims Job opened up the door for the attacks because he did not trust God fully, had fear, or had pride, and this led to the attacks. Not according to God. He calls Job a perfect and upright man that fears God and eschews evil. Even after the first wave of attacks, God says he was moved to destroy Job, "without cause." It is clear that Job did nothing to bring on the attacks. If he sinned, it was as a result of the attacks.
Job had 3 friends that heard of all the evil that happened to him. Their names were Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar. They come to visit Job, and all of them tell Job that he must have sinned, or these things would not have happened. They go so far as to suggest he did not even get punished enough for all his evil deeds, and they actually accuse him falsely. Job knows that was not true, so he says so. His friends do not believe him, because God would not do this to a man without cause. All 3 of Job's friends failed to convince Job he did something wrong to bring this upon him, so a 4th man by the name of Elihu jumps in and accuses Job. I do not see anything in this story that says God sent Elihu to him. He was just there, but was younger than they were, so his name had not been mentioned at the first.
It comes across to me like God just got fed up with all of them, because he seems to interrupt Elihu. In Job 38:1-2, God asks Job, "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" None of these men spoke for God or were sent by God or had the wisdom of God. What kind of things does God ask Job? It is about the creation. He is demanding answers about where were they when God created all things? They were all presumptuous in acting like they knew the mind of God. That is the only thing I see that Job did wrong. He acted like he knew all about God and the creation, things he had no idea about. He spoke out of turn, and confessed that sin to God. There is never any mention of pride. Notice what God says in Job 42:7
And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job has.
He says that Job spoke "the thing that is right." Job's sin was speaking like he knew the mind of God, when in reality, he did not. He did nothing to bring chastisement on him. That was the devil trying to prove he only served God because the Lord took care of him.
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Post by John on May 26, 2020 21:42:26 GMT -5
Job sinned in things he said when being tested. His friends kept saying his sins were the cause of the attack, and that wasn't true. John is right about that. I think it is awful anyone says Jesus wants us to agree quickly with the devil. That's what she's saying, no mistaking that. Job was at fault in being righteous in his own eyes....he did not see himself as unworthy.....he still needed to be sanctified. His journey is the believer's journey, brother. It has to do with how we overcome the accuser of the brethren who accuses us before the Lord day and night. We are not to agree with the lies of the devil, of course, that's not what this is talking about, but repentance is when we are undone and we can finally say in the glaring light, Yes, guilty as charged! When God convicts a man or woman of sin, they should say, "Yes, guilty as charged!" Make confession. God knows it anyway, but when it comes to our adversary the devil, we do not have to give him the satisfaction of coming into agreement with him about his accusations towards us. Even if some of what he says is true, so what? I am not going to agree with the devil. God convicts us, and the devil condemns us. I can understand your point about not playing innocent when we do wrong, but I cannot see coming into agreement with the devil, and I do not see that passage where Jesus speaks of coming into agreement with our adversary as having anything to do with the devil. It is speaking of the natural, and our relationship with other individuals.
As far as Job goes, God never once says Job was guilty of being "righteous in his own eyes," and Job never confessed to that. Job's only sin was speaking out of turn about things he had no real understanding about, like the creation. Put it under a microscope and see for yourself. If you have an example of God saying Job was righteous in his own eyes, or Job confessing to being righteous in his own eyes, be my guest and post it. Job says he was vile, but the rebukes were over him acting like a kind of know it all, not being self-righteous.
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Post by watchful on May 27, 2020 6:05:27 GMT -5
Job was at fault in being righteous in his own eyes....he did not see himself as unworthy.....he still needed to be sanctified. His journey is the believer's journey, brother. It has to do with how we overcome the accuser of the brethren who accuses us before the Lord day and night. We are not to agree with the lies of the devil, of course, that's not what this is talking about, but repentance is when we are undone and we can finally say in the glaring light, Yes, guilty as charged! Let me see if I understand you. You are saying that since Jesus said to agree with our adversaries quickly, and the devil is our adversary, we are to agree with him or come to an agreement with him when he accuses us, because chances are, the accusations are true, You are saying Job was too prideful to realize he was a rotten sinner that deserved the evil that came upon him, and if not for his pride, theses things wouldn't have happened to him. We should learn from Job. Is that close?No not at all, that is a complete and utter misrepresentation.
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Post by watchful on May 27, 2020 6:12:12 GMT -5
Let me see if I understand you. You are saying that since Jesus said to agree with our adversaries quickly, and the devil is our adversary, we are to agree with him or come to an agreement with him when he accuses us, because chances are, the accusations are true, You are saying Job was too prideful to realize he was a rotten sinner that deserved the evil that came upon him, and if not for his pride, theses things wouldn't have happened to him. We should learn from Job. Is that close? I have seen other teachings . from other men . and it goes to say , that anytime one is correcting , or seperates themselves from the company of those who wont repent , they get accused of being SELF RIGHTEOUS . and other things . bascially if you are warning folks not to sin , they consider it self righteous . there is a big move going on with this self righteous thing . NOT saying watchful is under it , because there is such a thing as self righteousness and sadly IT IS on many so called christains . But warning , exhorting , having order in the church teaching , rebuking , seperating , following the pattern JESUS taught and the apostels taught , IS NOT being self righteous , yet many accuse us of this . Again not saying watchful is . I was just warning us to be on gaurd for it . Now on this note , i am gonna double down on warnings , on reminders of all things , all sayings of the KING and all sayings of the apostels . Well friend, I'm glad you are not twisting what watchful is saying, because watchful does her share of warning, exhorting and correcting and parting company, so it would be strange if she considers that to be self righteous.
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Post by John on May 27, 2020 6:24:00 GMT -5
Let me see if I understand you. You are saying that since Jesus said to agree with our adversaries quickly, and the devil is our adversary, we are to agree with him or come to an agreement with him when he accuses us, because chances are, the accusations are true, You are saying Job was too prideful to realize he was a rotten sinner that deserved the evil that came upon him, and if not for his pride, theses things wouldn't have happened to him. We should learn from Job. Is that close? No not at all, that is a complete and utter misrepresentation. Can you explain where your view differs from what 777 said? If he is taking it that way, and he is wrong, others may be taking you wrong too.
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Post by watchful on May 27, 2020 6:38:39 GMT -5
Job sinned in things he said when being tested. His friends kept saying his sins were the cause of the attack, and that wasn't true. John is right about that. I think it is awful anyone says Jesus wants us to agree quickly with the devil. That's what she's saying, no mistaking that. correct . it was not sin at all that brought it on . but when he was tested he did mess it up . oh but praise the LORD , he sent another man and that man corrected job then GOD himself also corrected job and job repented . We need to ask WHY did he mess it up? The scripture plainly says he was righteous in his own eyes, and interesting that nobody here realizes that there is a slight problem with that. Do we think it's a righteous thing to be righteous in our own eyes? Did not Paul say that he knew of no wrong in himself but that by no means meant he was acquitted..and that he judges not his own self? Looks like folks here haven't given any thought or asked the Lord about sanctification and the necessity of it... so I leave you by saying that there is a need to do so because time is growing short and God has given His word as a light unto our path.
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Post by John on May 27, 2020 6:42:15 GMT -5
correct . it was not sin at all that brought it on . but when he was tested he did mess it up . oh but praise the LORD , he sent another man and that man corrected job then GOD himself also corrected job and job repented . We need to ask WHY did he mess it up? The scripture plainly says he was righteous in his own eyes, and interesting that nobody here realizes that there is a slight problem with that. Do we think it's a righteous thing to be righteous in our own eyes? Did not Paul say that he knew of no wrong in himself but that by no means meant he was acquitted..and that he judges not his own self? Looks like folks here haven't given any thought or asked the Lord about sanctification and the necessity of it... so I leave you by saying that there is a need to do so because time is growing short and God has given His word as a light unto our path. The Bible says his friends stopped talking because he was righteous in his own eyes. That is how they perceived him. There is not one scripture in Job where God says that about Job, and there is not one place where God says that is the reason for what he went through or that Job confessed that sin. God never said it, so he did not get anything wrong.
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Post by John on May 27, 2020 6:43:22 GMT -5
I want to take the time to review a few things about Job. First of all, is it true the Job was in sin, and this opened up the door for the devil's attacks on him? Before the attacks, and then after they began, here is what God says about Job.
Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in all the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Job 1:8
Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. Job 2:3
There is false teaching going around that claims Job opened up the door for the attacks because he did not trust God fully, had fear, or had pride, and this led to the attacks. Not according to God. He calls Job a perfect and upright man that fears God and eschews evil. Even after the first wave of attacks, God says he was moved to destroy Job, "without cause." It is clear that Job did nothing to bring on the attacks. If he sinned, it was as a result of the attacks.
Job had 3 friends that heard of all the evil that happened to him. Their names were Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar. They come to visit Job, and all of them tell Job that he must have sinned, or these things would not have happened. They go so far as to suggest he did not even get punished enough for all his evil deeds, and they actually accuse him falsely. Job knows that was not true, so he says so. His friends do not believe him, because God would not do this to a man without cause. All 3 of Job's friends failed to convince Job he did something wrong to bring this upon him, so a 4th man by the name of Elihu jumps in and accuses Job. I do not see anything in this story that says God sent Elihu to him. He was just there, but was younger than they were, so his name had not been mentioned at the first.
It comes across to me like God just got fed up with all of them, because he seems to interrupt Elihu. In Job 38:1-2, God asks Job, "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" None of these men spoke for God or were sent by God or had the wisdom of God. What kind of things does God ask Job? It is about the creation. He is demanding answers about where were they when God created all things? They were all presumptuous in acting like they knew the mind of God. That is the only thing I see that Job did wrong. He acted like he knew all about God and the creation, things he had no idea about. He spoke out of turn, and confessed that sin to God. There is never any mention of pride. Notice what God says in Job 42:7
And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job has.
He says that Job spoke "the thing that is right." Job's sin was speaking like he knew the mind of God, when in reality, he did not. He did nothing to bring chastisement on him. That was the devil trying to prove he only served God because the Lord took care of him.
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Post by John on May 27, 2020 6:47:54 GMT -5
Job was at fault in being righteous in his own eyes....he did not see himself as unworthy.....he still needed to be sanctified. His journey is the believer's journey, brother. It has to do with how we overcome the accuser of the brethren who accuses us before the Lord day and night. We are not to agree with the lies of the devil, of course, that's not what this is talking about, but repentance is when we are undone and we can finally say in the glaring light, Yes, guilty as charged! Let me see if I understand you. You are saying that since Jesus said to agree with our adversaries quickly, and the devil is our adversary, we are to agree with him or come to an agreement with him when he accuses us, because chances are, the accusations are true, You are saying Job was too prideful to realize he was a rotten sinner that deserved the evil that came upon him, and if not for his pride, theses things wouldn't have happened to him. We should learn from Job. Is that close? I took her a lot like you did. You may have read a little more into it than I did, but she says you completely and utterly misrepresented her, so I would hope she will clarify things. If I wrote anything that was completely and utterly misrepresented, I would want to clear it up, not just tell the other person they took me wrong. I would want to show how.
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