PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 10, 2020 8:58:29 GMT -5
This may be controversial or difficult to grasp, but I will bring it up here because I can only share what I have to share. The Lord is jealous over His children. When He said touch not my anointed, He meant it. He can be provoked to bring judgment on people on behalf of His children. Sometimes He can also be provoked to harshly chastise a child. When those men stoned Steven, God would have been perfectly just to smite them. Again I will emphasize that we do not have the power to decide whether someone is forgiven. But, if God is provoked, especially on our behalf, he will take our feelings into consideration. He will listen to us plead for mercy if we say we’re not mad about it. There is a small dash of our counsel being involved in the decision.
Barjesus was struck blind, but the fortune-telling girl was forgiven. Both reactions got the same results because the fear of God struck the people in both cases. One reaction was not more fruitful than the other. But one was bound and the other was loosed, despite the fact that they were in the same sin. Of course we can discuss how the young girl was an unwitting accomplice while Barjesus was intentional. But that’s the point. They were doing the exact same sin for different reasons. One was bound and the other was loosed. And she was loosed before she apologized. Paul took pity on that girl and loosed her from that bondage although he did not offer this to Barjesus. And again I am not saying that Paul chose to say she was forgiven. But Paul was the one who interacted with both of them. Both of them were attacking his ministry, and he handled them.
But I don’t want to repeat myself on this or go in circles. I don’t know how much else to explain it. I guess people can receive it or not.
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Post by Giller on Sept 10, 2020 8:59:45 GMT -5
Joh 20:23 (23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
The interesting part with the remitting thing, is that it says that their sins are remitted unto them.
So it is not just speaking of some type of declaration, to were people have not repented of their sins, but rather I believe it is a type of declaration to were a person can be said to have been forgiven.
And through the power of the Holy Spirit, such a declaration can bring in comfort and so on, and some type of healing.
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Post by Giller on Sept 10, 2020 9:06:20 GMT -5
And no I am not saying to go around declaring such an one forgiven just for the sake of it, no not at all, I am talking more about the leading of the Spirit.
Such as the example of Peter I shown, which was by the leading of the Spirit:
Act 8:23 (23) For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
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Post by John on Sept 10, 2020 9:11:15 GMT -5
This may be controversial or difficult to grasp, but I will bring it up here because I can only share what I have to share. The Lord is jealous over His children. When He said touch not my anointed, He meant it. He can be provoked to bring judgment on people on behalf of His children. Sometimes He can also be provoked to harshly chastise a child. When those men stoned Steven, God would have been perfectly just to smite them. Again I will emphasize that we do not have the power to decide whether someone is forgiven. But, if God is provoked, especially on our behalf, he will take our feelings into consideration. He will listen to us plead for mercy if we say we’re not mad about it. There is a small dash of our counsel being involved in the decision. Barjesus was struck blind, but the fortune-telling girl was forgiven. Both reactions got the same results because the fear of God struck the people in both cases. One reaction was not more fruitful than the other. But one was bound and the other was loosed, despite the fact that they were in the same sin. Of course we can discuss how the young girl was an unwitting accomplice while Barjesus was intentional. But that’s the point. They were doing the exact same sin for different reasons. One was bound and the other was loosed. And she was loosed before she apologized. Paul took pity on that girl and loosed her from that bondage although he did not offer this to Barjesus. And again I am not saying that Paul chose to say she was forgiven. But Paul was the one who interacted with both of them. Both of them were attacking his ministry, and he handled them. But I don’t want to repeat myself on this or go in circles. I don’t know how much else to explain it. I guess people can receive it or not. Many fortune tellers invite unclean spirits inside to give them powers, and I always saw that as Paul getting fed up and forcefully casting the spirit out because it was messing with his ministry. I always felt like she did not desire to be free, but that is an interesting take, and only God knows for certain.
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Post by Giller on Sept 10, 2020 9:15:43 GMT -5
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
With the case of Stephen, No doubt the Lord answered his prayer, but to what degree, and how many of them truly repented after the martyr of Stephen?
I do not know, but one possible answer to this prayer may have been Paul, but Paul did not repent at this moment, so his sins were not remitted at this moment, only a while later was his sins forgiven.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 10, 2020 9:20:25 GMT -5
Sit down . Do my views and the views of sister candance or any other , disagree . THEN KNOW THIS . ONLY one is the right view . Whether it be I , candance or another . You better sit down and refresh in scripture . cause we cant alll be right . All will do as they must do . But i must cling to the original pattern . the simpicity of that . Time as we know it , is coming to a close . Though i have seen and though i have had faults , what i taught was not a fault . Soon enough folks will choose their ways . But i must continue in the only way that set me free . JESUS , GOD and the simpicity of scriptures . It is not a question of knowing what it says, but of understanding it. This is not an easily understood verse, as is obvious by all the different opinions. Giller said he has wrestled with it for years. I am not 100 percent sure of the meaning, thus we discuss it.
Yes . i just didnt make it clear enough my friend . I went back and read some of it and i should have put in that view point too . I was just typing away at mock speed trying to get a general point accross . But oh yes , i know there are things that are not yet understood.
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Post by bethany on Sept 10, 2020 9:22:11 GMT -5
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
God acts in His own time, so the remitting may not have happened at the same time, but was carried in Gods heart until He chose to use it, when the time was right.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 10, 2020 9:25:38 GMT -5
since we are all sharing our thoughts its about time i throw in my two cents. here is what i believe it speaks to: Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Stephen did not retain the sin. Agree that Stephen did not retain the sin....but one question that comes to mind, was the Lord releasing forgiveness through Stephen in that way or was Stephen himself forgiving them? I think there might be a difference between the two. I myself have forgiven people many times, but that one time the Lord was releasing forgiveness to someone in that way, and I was in agreement with it, but it was really the Lord doing it and not me by myself. I think you could say me and the Lord were yoked together in releasing the forgiveness that time, actually. Would that make sense? Or another possibility, it might only be that He let me discern what was taking place in the spirit that time. It's possible that every time we forgive someone, the Lord is releasing it in that way, but we just aren't always aware of what is taking place in the spirit. Hello. It might be. And actually you know what, I seem to getting a witness with that. If that's the case, we can see why it's so important not to judge folks, judgment is binding. (And that is why if we hold onto judgment against someone who has sinned against us, it binds not only them but us as well, because the Father is not forgiving us for holding onto the judgment..?) Oh its the HOLY SPIRIT all right my dear sister . It will always unction us to do what is right and to flee what is evil . Even paul when simply reminding them about how he had labored more abundantly than them all, SAID , YET NOT I but the GRACE OF GOD . IT IS the SPIRIT SISTER . You are correct sister . IT is the SPIRIT that bids us to do what is good . IT is the flesh that bids us to do what is evil . THUS let us follow the Spirit and not the flesh .
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Post by Giller on Sept 10, 2020 9:25:59 GMT -5
This is just a thought, but I know in the case of Simon which is known as the sorcerer, maybe he needed to hear from Peter what Peter told him, so to bring strong conviction of some type, now what Simon did with what Peter told him, is another question.
Now also there are times were people get saved, and they know they have been forgiven, but the devil comes to condemn them and bring doubt, maybe in some cases, through the anointing, some may need to here someone say to them they have been forgiven, which can bring comfort, and healing.
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Post by Giller on Sept 10, 2020 9:28:14 GMT -5
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. God acts in His own time, so the remitting may not have happened at the same time, but was carried in Gods heart until He chose to use it, when the time was right. That is an interesting thought.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 10, 2020 9:30:59 GMT -5
Some scriptures that were eye opening to me: Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (ie, in the spirit?) We can see here below how binding and loosing has to do with forgiveness, at least in one sense: Mat 18:15-18Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
And then continuing in the same chapter picking up again on the same theme of forgiveness: Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt
Yes it has to do with both the correction and the forgivness . As paul also gave hymenaus and philetus over to satan , WHY , SO they WOULD LEARN NOT TO BLASPHEME GOD . It was not to just have them perish forever . But it was the working of the SPIRIT which leads to repentance . So it boils also down to what JESUS said . IF your brother sin against you , REBUKE HIM . catch the first step in correction . YOU rebuke them and show them their error . Then if he repents , You forgive and such a one is restored again . But since we on this subject , let me give us a huge reminder of what we DO not do . IF a brother or sister sins against God or the brethren . WE dont just sit and hug them and say all is well . WE rebuke them first to ensure they cease that error . There is this false kind of forgivness and restoration going on these days . IF brethren err , the folks say nothing and just hug them as all is well . And that is deadly .
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Post by John on Sept 10, 2020 9:33:55 GMT -5
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. God acts in His own time, so the remitting may not have happened at the same time, but was carried in Gods heart until He chose to use it, when the time was right. That is an interesting thought. I know that Paul was a chosen vessel, but I can see how He could have also remembered Stephen's prayer when He revealed Christ to Paul.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 10, 2020 9:34:50 GMT -5
This is just a thought, but I know in the case of Simon which is known as the sorcerer, maybe he needed to hear from Peter what Peter told him, so to bring strong conviction of some type, now what Simon did with what Peter told him, is another question. Now also there are times were people get saved, and they know they have been forgiven, but the devil comes to condemn them and bring doubt, maybe in some cases, through the anointing, some may need to here someone say to them they have been forgiven, which can bring comfort, and healing. Yep . and it actually worked . By peters sharp , sharp rebuke on that man . HIS next cries were , OH please pray for me that those things come not upon me . PETER put the fear of GOD into simenon. and simeon knew he had erred and was fearful big time . And yes there are also times where people do get saved, they know they are forgiven , yet the devil comes to condemn them and bring doubt . THAT happens too . now for the wrong kind of example . Today when most err , Todays version of peter would say , OH GOD IS LOVE simeon , HE is DADDY , just keep trying to do better . But DOES That sound anything like the real peter did . THIS is why i keep on sounding out , we need to be serious grave against sin and error when we spot it in brethren .
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Post by frienduff on Sept 10, 2020 9:39:13 GMT -5
That is an interesting thought. I know that Paul was a chosen vessel, but I can see how He could have also remembered Stephen's prayer when He revealed Christ to Paul.
I often wonder if that is what was meant when the GLORIOUS LORD had told paul , IT is hard for thee to kick against the prick . Cause earlier it says , in another example , THEY were PRICKED in their conscious . I wonder if the pricking in pauls conscious had not began when he seen stephen saying , LORD forgive them .
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Post by bethany on Sept 10, 2020 9:39:25 GMT -5
There can be a gentle yet firm way to rebuke, so the message is clearly understood, but love is still prevailing.
I have cringed at some preacher thundering searing condemnations from the pulpit, or roasting someone who made an error of judgement and is now crushed by harshness.
Tough love is sometimes needed, but always with love and a desire to conduct our rebuke in such a way as to draw that person back to God.
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