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Post by Giller on Dec 18, 2018 13:28:14 GMT -5
There is a difference between just simply believing for something, and being directly used of God.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 18, 2018 13:29:26 GMT -5
Mat 15:24-28 (24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (25) Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. (26) But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. (27) And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (28) Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour. She asked Jesus to heal her daughter and he did, she believed for this miracle. Unbelievers can ask God for a miracle healing, and because of his compassion and so forth he heals them. And he said great is her faith. But still it is not the same as casting out devils in his name, laying hands directly on the sick and them recovering and so forth. It was not virtue flowing through her. And of course in any instance it is always God that heals. The Canaanite’s daughter was vexed by an evil spirit. She had enough sense to know that. This was casting out a devil.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 18, 2018 13:31:16 GMT -5
If a desperate parent is begging God to deliver her child, how is that not the parent being used?
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Post by Giller on Dec 18, 2018 13:39:13 GMT -5
Mar 16:15-18 (15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
This authority was given to believers not unbelievers, and there is no doubt that this is talking about true believers in Christ.
There is not one scripture that shows that this authority was given to unbelievers.
And that Cannantie lady did not cast a devil out of her daughter, she did not use the authority of the name of Jesus, she just believed for a miracle.
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Post by frienduff on Dec 18, 2018 13:44:24 GMT -5
Mat 15:24-28 (24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (25) Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. (26) But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. (27) And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (28) Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour. She asked Jesus to heal her daughter and he did, she believed for this miracle. Unbelievers can ask God for a miracle healing, and because of his compassion and so forth he heals them. And he said great is her faith. But still it is not the same as casting out devils in his name, laying hands directly on the sick and them recovering and so forth. It was not virtue flowing through her. And of course in any instance it is always God that heals. It seems many are missing this point . THAT LADY was NOT an unbeliever . SHE KNEW . SHE KNEW . every other case , in the bible IS the same . THEY KNEW , they had FAITH . and unbeliever does not have FAITH . only a believer has FAITH .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 18, 2018 13:44:26 GMT -5
Giller I do understand the distinction you are making. Personally I think it’s a distinction without a difference. Either way, none of it can replace repentance to get a person saved.
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Post by John on Dec 18, 2018 13:45:38 GMT -5
I look at it like Jesus is the one doing the casting out of the devils and healing the sick. It is really not the person doing anything. Jesus can just speak the word from his throne in heaven and do something like that. Let's say that God were to use me in a healing ministry. I can't take credit for anyone getting healed. The same thing goes with casting out devils. I can take authority over demons and command them to leave in the name of Jesus, but I can't cast them out. Only Jesus can, or the Holy Spirit can. Remember that when the religious folks were attributing Jesus casting out devils to Beelzebub, the prince of the devils, Jesus asked them by whose power their children cast out devils. Only God has the power to perform true miracles, and he can use anyone he wishes. God allowed King Saul to prophecy after he had already been rejected. I think the mistake we are making here is looking at individuals as the healers, and as Cletus said, it is the Spirit of God that does the healing. It is not us.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 18, 2018 13:46:29 GMT -5
This is not about umbelievers or Buddhists or anyone else in that camp. This is about people who mentally believe in Jesus, and say they are Christian, yet did not repent unto salvation. We are strictly talking about those people.
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Post by John on Dec 18, 2018 13:47:54 GMT -5
Mat 15:24-28 (24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (25) Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. (26) But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. (27) And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (28) Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour. She asked Jesus to heal her daughter and he did, she believed for this miracle. Unbelievers can ask God for a miracle healing, and because of his compassion and so forth he heals them. And he said great is her faith. But still it is not the same as casting out devils in his name, laying hands directly on the sick and them recovering and so forth. It was not virtue flowing through her. And of course in any instance it is always God that heals. It seems many are missing this point . THAT LADY was NOT an unbeliever . SHE KNEW . SHE KNEW . every other case , in the bible IS the same . THEY KNEW , they had FAITH . and unbeliever does not have FAITH . only a believer has FAITH . It is possible she could have believed unto salvation. I really don't know because the Bible doesn't say, but her faith in Christ's ability to heal her child was strong.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 18, 2018 13:51:13 GMT -5
Why would Jesus have called her a dog if she was already a repented, regenerated Christian?
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Post by frienduff on Dec 18, 2018 13:51:40 GMT -5
This is not about umbelievers or Buddhists or anyone else in that camp. This is about people who mentally believe in Jesus, and say they are Christian, yet did not repent unto salvation. We are strictly talking about those people. And I know you know this is true too . see what comes after that comma, yet did NOT repent unto salvation . THEY STILL GOT A LAKE OF FIRE THAT AWAITS . even ten lepers were healed . but only ONE RETURNED . OH , I KNOW , yes I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS . I just remind is all . So , let all hear this reminder too , if under the spell of inclusive they fall then utter destruction and perdtion will be the reward to all . I might sound like an old recorder on skip mode repeating . BUT n fast time all who are HIS , will see WHY I so strongly warned against this inclusive unity from satan . cause we all GONNA SEE IT MUSHROOM HUGE .
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Post by frienduff on Dec 18, 2018 13:54:43 GMT -5
I honestly don't know where the topic began about repentance unto salvation . I was just simply exorting . Here is an easy way to say this . NO repentance unto salvation . MEANS ONLY THE SECOND DEATH . That should be plain enough . NO JESUS no everlasting life . NO JESUS only a lake of fire . And confession FROM the MOUTH and BELIEF from the heart , must be made . IN other words , inclusivism is a lie from hell . A LIE FROM HELL . A lie from satan , from rome and now from many .
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Post by frienduff on Dec 18, 2018 13:57:22 GMT -5
Why would Jesus have called her a dog if she was already a repented, regenerated Christian? REMEMBER where GOD says , HE GIVES GRACE UNTO THE LOWLY but resists the PROUD .
Ever notice the lady never once said , BUT LORD I AM NOT DOG I am a KINGS KID and am WORTHY OF THIS HEALING . Yeah, I utterly depise the message of the name it and claim it and the DONT DARE touch Gods anointed pride filled men and women . BUT I aint the only ONE who hates that message . SO DOES GOD . Don't marvel, GOD hates pride . OH but he does .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Dec 18, 2018 13:58:31 GMT -5
It sounds like we are all mostly in agreement. A lost sheep can believe in Jesus enough to get an answer, but then not do what they need to do for salvation. We are only disagreeing on tiny details.
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Post by frienduff on Dec 18, 2018 14:03:19 GMT -5
It sounds like we are all mostly in agreement. A lost sheep can believe in Jesus enough to get an answer, but then not do what they need to do for salvation. We are only disagreeing on tiny details. And it happens way more often than most realize . For many will cry unto GOD when they are sick and need healing . And HE will hear and heal . THEN just like nine of those leppers , they just go right back into showing GOD the back mode . OH YES SISTER . this sure DOES HAPPEN and a lot too .
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