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Post by John on Aug 24, 2019 19:00:29 GMT -5
To tithe or not to tithe has been an area of contention in the New Testament church for as long as I can remember. There are two schools of thought. One is that we are required to tithe 10 percent or we are thieves and cursed with a curse. One is that tithing was only an Old Testament practice, and under the New Covenant, we are simply to give as the Lord instructs us to give, whether it be no set amount or all we have. I am creating this thread to examine all the scriptures about tithing so we can hopefully come to the truth.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 24, 2019 19:06:32 GMT -5
Please let me start by saying two things...
1) No one at Narrow Way (that I can tell) rejects the thought of giving. We should make all our resources available to God’s work. Every gift, skill, talent, paycheck, everything. We should practice out-doing each other in generosity. Please, no comments that anyone here is covetous or unspiritual.
2) If you feel led to tithe, you should obey your conscience. No one is telling you not to.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 24, 2019 19:35:12 GMT -5
There are a few things about tithe I would like to point out...
We know they had money as far back as Abraham because he used money to purchase a field:
And he spake unto Ephron in the audience of the people of the land, saying, But if thou wilt give it, I pray thee, hear me: I will give thee money for the field; take it of me, and I will bury my dead there. — Genesis 23:13
Yet the Bible went out of its way to forbid paying tithes with money:
Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee. —Deuteronomy 14:25-27
There’s not one sentence in Scripture, Old or New, where the concept of tithe transitioned to money. Money for alms, yes. Money to meet a need, yes. Money for tithe, no. People who worked in business and didn’t own a farm were never expected to “tithe money.”
Churches need funds, and Christians should give, but tithe was irrelevant. Tithes was a handy concept that came with a simple 10% math problem. I believe it started as Letters said — we need people to give money in a way that’s easy to manage, here’s this law based on giving 10%, voila.
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Post by John on Aug 24, 2019 20:48:40 GMT -5
Please let me start by saying two things... 1) No one at Narrow Way (that I can tell) rejects the thought of giving. We should make all our resources available to God’s work. Every gift, skill, talent, paycheck, everything. We should practice out-doing each other in generosity. Please, no comments that anyone here is covetous or unspiritual. 2) If you feel led to tithe, you should obey your conscience. No one is telling you not to.
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Post by John on Aug 24, 2019 20:52:38 GMT -5
...here’s this law based on giving 10%, voila. Is it a heavy burden to you? Do not give. But telling the truth: What God prefers you to do?! Your conscience answers you.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Aug 24, 2019 21:57:35 GMT -5
Mat 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithes of mint and dill and cummin, and you have left undone the weightier matters of the Law, judgment, mercy, and faith. You ought to have done these and not to leave the other undone.
here is a scripture we should focus on. i think Jesus is saying er... reinforcing to do the tithe thing. I think Jesus is also saying judgment, mercy, and faith (three topics we have been discussing on this forum for awhile now) are more important than the tithe.
this one scripture is important, at least for me it is. when we look at all of the scriptures concerning tithe this one must fit in. let me explain why i think this verse is so important and to do this i will need to read this verse from the CV bible. that stands for Cletus Version:
woe to you hypocrites! you are so meticulous with your tithing you tithe on seasonings and spices and herbs, even the tiny things... but you dont pay attention to the parts of the law that reflect your heart... while this is good to do you did not do what is more important.
the cv bible is a paraphrase. anyway, the word ought is binding... from the KJV. does this mean its commanded? i think the ISV says it pretty good "These are the things you should have practiced, without neglecting the others. " now i looked this verse up in a dozen or more versions of bible... and they all imply Jesus is saying to do this.
I am interested in hearing what others say about this verse as well as other verses, lets see how all of Gods word speaks to us on this. but after studying this verse i am really convinced we are to pay a tithe not so much as a law but as a discipline. i would also like to explore what the tithe is. money? food? taxes?
I am going to add to this what my position always has been about the storehouse. when i worked in a past ministry, it was a kitchen that served for free 3 meals a day to poor people. it had male and female dorms and family rooms for people with no place to live. during my working there in multiple positions God showed me that was the storehouse. now lets pause here... this is what God showed me. this is His leading in my life. He may not lead you to give in the same way. now, quite a few local churches came together to build this place. they also support it month to month with tithe money. there are other donations also. and there are second hand stores where people can get stuff free but most is sold and the money goes to support this place. to me this is the storehouse.
also... i think the next verse holds importance...
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
what do yall say? and i do ask not to pit this verse against another verse unless necessary. i do not want to use one verse to nullify another. thats what the hypocrites did and Jesus did rebuke them... and i made a thread on that. i want to seek truth.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 24, 2019 22:08:56 GMT -5
Food is absolutely what the tithe is all about. But it’s supposed to be based on food we grow.
As for the storehouse, I believe you are right. The storehouse in Malachi was food for needy people. This agrees with James saying true religion is to visit the orphans.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Aug 24, 2019 22:27:13 GMT -5
Food is absolutely what the tithe is all about. But it’s supposed to be based on food we grow. As for the storehouse, I believe you are right. The storehouse in Malachi was food for needy people. This agrees with James saying true religion is to visit the orphans. I am with you on that... but i want to explore it all. including this one:
1Ch 26:20 And of the Levites, Ahijah was over the treasures of the house of God, and over the treasures of the dedicated things.
this verse goes hand in hand with the one video you posted. things the guy said.
for this study we are going to have to get a shovel with a sturdy handle, and some rubber boots on. there is a lot to this.
what i want to say about the above verse... its not storehouse... but the word for house is the same as house in storehouse. What i can dig up so far is this house in this verse was for.. gifts, taxes, and spoils of war. what kind of gifts?... i dont know yet. i can not verify or deverify this was for the tithe. i do see similarities. False teachers sometimes do include some truth in their teachings.
and how does this fit in also: 1Ch 23:24 These were the sons of Levi after the house of their fathers; even the chief of the fathers, as they were counted by number of names by their polls, that did the work for the service of the house of the LORD, from the age of twenty years and upward.
1Ch 23:25 For David said, The LORD God of Israel hath given rest unto his people, that they may dwell in Jerusalem for ever:
1Ch 23:26 And also unto the Levites; they shall no more carry the tabernacle, nor any vessels of it for the service thereof.
1Ch 23:27 For by the last words of David the Levites were numbered from twenty years old and above:
1Ch 23:28 Because their office was to wait on the sons of Aaron for the service of the house of the LORD, in the courts, and in the chambers, and in the purifying of all holy things, and the work of the service of the house of God;
1Ch 23:29 Both for the shewbread, and for the fine flour for meat offering, and for the unleavened cakes, and for that which is baked in the pan, and for that which is fried, and for all manner of measure and size;
1Ch 23:30 And to stand every morning to thank and praise the LORD, and likewise at even;
1Ch 23:31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the LORD:
1Ch 23:32 And that they should keep the charge of the tabernacle of the congregation, and the charge of the holy place, and the charge of the sons of Aaron their brethren, in the service of the house of the LORD.
what is every single purpose for meat in His house? and what is the spiritual implication today? and let me be blunt... i do not buy we pay a tithe so God will give the preacher man a word and feed us meat in the sermon. if anyone can prove it by scripture i will repent.
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Post by Giller on Aug 24, 2019 22:51:13 GMT -5
A collection for Christians in Jerusalem
2Co 9:1
(1) For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
The context here that is spoken of, is to the ministering to the saints, or ministering to their needs.
2Co 9:7
(7) Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Here the giving mentioned was for the needs of the saints, and it says not to give out of necessity for God loves a cheerful giver.
When Jesus walked the earth he was fulfilling the law, but since the cross, this is the new testament motivation for giving.
Under the Old, there was a specific percentage, but since the cross, a certain law does not govern our giving, but rather the Lord himself governs our personal giving, which can be 10% or even more, whatever he leads.
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Post by Giller on Aug 24, 2019 23:07:21 GMT -5
Here are worthy verses to meditate on, which is mentioned after the time of the cross:
Heb 7:5-16
(5) And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
(6) But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
(7) And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
(8) And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
(9) And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
(10) For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
(11) If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
(12) For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
(13) For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
(14) For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
(15) And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
(16) Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
There seems to be a lot of spiritual meanings here.
And it shows nothing about the Old Leviticus tithe being brought over to the New covenant here.
Maybe someone can expand on the thoughts given in these verses.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Aug 25, 2019 9:03:45 GMT -5
oooo i like this... some are going after the cross and i am going way before it. Surely The LORD will reveal the truth to us on this. because He Is good. i have to get ready to go soon... but i will be back.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 25, 2019 9:16:40 GMT -5
On the subject of tithing to priesthood, let’s not overlook this...
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light — 1 Peter 2:9
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. — Acts 13:2
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. — Revelation 1:6
Christians have no Levite class to tithe to. We are the priesthood, and Jesus is our high priest, ministering to God behind the veil. Show me a Levite I’m supposed to tithe to. There’s nothing in the NT about preachers replacing Levites. Either we are all the priesthood behind the veil, or we aren’t.
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Post by Giller on Aug 25, 2019 9:25:11 GMT -5
On the subject of tithing to priesthood, let’s not overlook this... But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light — 1 Peter 2:9
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. — Acts 13:2
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. — Revelation 1:6 Christians have no Levite class to tithe to. We are the priesthood, and Jesus is our high priest, ministering to God behind the veil. Show me a Levite I’m supposed to tithe to. There’s nothing in the NT about preachers replacing Levites. Either we are all the priesthood behind the veil, or we aren’t. Very wise questions. |
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 25, 2019 9:28:35 GMT -5
Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. — 1 Corinthians 9:7-10
Paul didn’t compare himself to a Levite. He called himself a laborer. These are all references to work being done for a harvest. None of the apostles ever said they were entitled to Levite privileges. If there was ever a chance for Paul to play the tithe card, it was here.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 10:58:55 GMT -5
As a full time carer, I get very little, and the amount I get barley pays the bills etc. I try to give what I have (if I have it to give). I love this piece of scripture that our Lord did not look upon percentages rather from what came from the heart (Luke 21:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
1And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had..)
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