|
Post by Giller on Sept 3, 2019 13:00:13 GMT -5
Heb 7:12 (12) For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
So if the priesthood changed, then there was also of necessity a change also of the law, therefore at least in regards to tithing to the Levitical priesthood, it is no longer, for that priesthood, under New Covenant times, has changed.
It is no longer, and now we who are in Christ, are a holy priesthood, and the temple priestly duties are no longer, for the temple is no longer, and now we are the temple of the Holy Ghost.
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 3, 2019 13:03:07 GMT -5
Now what is the spiritual meaning of Levi giving a tithe in Abraham, I am not exactly certain, but I do know that it is referring to a spiritual meaning. I am sure there are deep and hidden spiritual meanings to a lot of the scriptures we take for granted. I am not certain either, but I agree that there is likely more than what is obvious.
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 3, 2019 13:08:27 GMT -5
Heb 7:12 (12) For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. So if the priesthood changed, then there was also of necessity a change also of the law, therefore at least in regards to tithing to the Levitical priesthood, it is no longer, for that priesthood, under New Covenant times, has changed. It is no longer, and now we who are in Christ, are a holy priesthood, and the temple priestly duties are no longer, for the temple is no longer, and now we are the temple of the Holy Ghost. That is true about there being a new law or Covenant, but the question for me is whether a tithe always belonged to God? The law changed in that we don't tithe to the Jewish Temple, but what about to God? Abraham gave tithes while not under the Law of Moses.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Sept 3, 2019 13:16:00 GMT -5
Well I believe in giving towards the work of God, and supporting the needs of the Saints and so forth, so I believe that the concept of giving has never left, it is still for us today, but now our giving is governed not by a specific law, but rather by the leading of the Spirit.
And it says God loves a cheerful giver.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Sept 3, 2019 13:20:27 GMT -5
i was speaking to my friend possibly a few weeks ago or more about the stuff of tithing, which he believes like me for new covenant times, and he mentioned that yes, most giving of the tithe back then , was through agriculture and so on, but there was a certain place were he seen that money can be used for tithing, but it was actually more than ten percent via money, i tried to find the scripture but did not find yet, maybe I will ask my friend.
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 3, 2019 13:22:42 GMT -5
Well I believe in giving towards the work of God, and supporting the needs of the Saints and so forth, so I believe that the concept of giving has never left, it is still for us today, but now our giving is governed not by a specific law, but rather by the leading of the Spirit. And it says God loves a cheerful giver. I am leaning in the direction that we owe God at least 10 percent, and when it comes to being a cheerful giver, that is what is above the tithe. Still, I am not satisfied that this is settled to where we know for sure one way or the other. Lord willing, I will continue to seek out whether or not there are any other scriptures that deal with this subject. This is so much like the issue of Sabbath keeping. I can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that we don't have to observe the Saturday Sabbath, even though I don't believe it is a requirement. I know that there is the possibility I could be wrong. Then I come down to the question over whether or not I should take chances with either until I am sure. Do I decide to pay tithes to the work of the Lord and rest on Saturday just to be certain I am doing nothing wrong? There wouldn't be any harm in that. It is like I said, each man needs to be convinced in their own mind about certain things.
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 3, 2019 13:23:41 GMT -5
i was speaking to my friend possibly a few weeks ago or more about the stuff of tithing, which he believes like me for new covenant times, and he mentioned that yes, most giving of the tithe back then , was through agriculture and so on, but there was a certain place were he seen that money can be used for tithing, but it was actually more than ten percent via money, i tried to find the scripture but did not find yet, maybe I will ask my friend. Anything that would shed further light on this subject is worth looking into.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Sept 3, 2019 13:33:18 GMT -5
I know that under new covenant times, it is right to give to the needs of the saints and so on, so we should be givers of some sort (giving real money, giving food, clothes etc.).
And in my next comment, I am not using this next saying so to say Hebrews verse such and such is referring to this, just throwing in some thoughts.
I once heard a preacher mention how that faith in essence, is our new testament currency.
Just found the saying interesting.
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on Sept 3, 2019 13:41:00 GMT -5
Circumcision was also something Abraham did before Moses, but Paul said Christians apply it to the heart.
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 3, 2019 13:48:07 GMT -5
Circumcision was also something Abraham did before Moses, but Paul said Christians apply it to the heart. That is where we have to decipher what applies to us today and what does not and why. Circumcision was a law of separation. It showed that Israel was a separate people from the idol worshipping gentiles. The same thing goes for eating only kosher foods. It was unique to Israel, and the purpose itself was to show gentiles were outside the faith. Now that we are part of Israel, and are no longer common or unclean, this has changed. Now, when we look to circumcision and eating kosher, we are actually denying that the gentiles are made clean and have become part of Israel.
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on Sept 3, 2019 14:07:27 GMT -5
I’m open to the idea of a tithe being for us somehow. But the typical modern doctrine is a logical mess I just can’t see being right. I don’t even mean the false teachers. I mean conventional doctrine on this. Too many loose ends and fuzzy explanations. If tithing is for us, there has to be more to the story.
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on Sept 3, 2019 14:20:41 GMT -5
Then I come down to the question over whether or not I should take chances with either until I am sure. Do I decide to pay tithes to the work of the Lord and rest on Saturday just to be certain I am doing nothing wrong? There wouldn't be any harm in that. It is like I said, each man needs to be convinced in their own mind about certain things. I’d say this comes down to the spirit behind it. If someone feels inspired to give in good faith, God can reward them. However if they are berated into doing something when their conscience is against it, Romans 14:23 applies.
|
|
|
Post by solid on Sept 3, 2019 15:19:47 GMT -5
Interesting topic. Every church I ever attended teaches if you don't tithe you are under a curse. You have given me a lot to think about.
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on Sept 3, 2019 15:35:08 GMT -5
Do you think those other things are examples to us or that they apply to us? This is a serious question we must consider. Paul said Israel in the wilderness was an ensample to us. He said Israel’s natural branches being cut off are an example to us. I don’t doubt there’s a lesson for us in Malachi, but I doubt it’s the standard lesson of your personal life being cursed if you don’t pay your dues. Malachi was so much more than rant about tithes. Here we see the Lord grieving a lost relationship. He’s a father disowned by His children, a master disowned by His servants, a God ignored by His priests. He goes line by line and shows how Israel has disrespected Him from every direction. I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob — Malachi 1:2This is the start of the book. He loved them, and they didn’t love Him back. He loved them for the sake of Jacob. The whole covenant He had with them was a relationship built on love. A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the Lord is contemptible. And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the Lord of hosts. — Malachi 1:6-8 You know what’s missing from this? “God doesn’t really need anything from you, but you should do this for your own good to remove the curse.” No. This was personal. God was a good Father to them — for Jacob’s sake — but they were not good sons to Him. It wasn’t about the material stuff. It was about the principle that they showed more respect to human rulers. Try giving garbage to a governor and see if he’s happy about it. It was lack of respect, not material things. He said the priests despised Him long before He got to the common people. These Christian preachers (again, not the false prosperity ones, but the decent holiness ones) who consider themselves the new Levites in charge of the storehouse... does this apply to them? Do they consider polluted bread on the altar? Do they let their flock bring in garbage and disrespectful behavior? What worship is their flock offering to God? Polluted worship? Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the Lord of hosts; and ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the Lord. But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the Lord of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen. — Malachi 1:13-14What spiritual lesson can we learn from this? You dress better for your office job than you dress to come to church, and you act like you have nothing better to give, are you a deceiver who will be cursed? Oh no, let’s not go there in church. If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the Lord of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. — Malachi 2:2They were cursed because they didn’t care to bring glory to the Lord. The priests were cursed. The Levites entitled to the tithe had their blessings cursed. What can Christians learn from this? My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity. For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the Lord of hosts. — Malachi 2:5-8 Levi had a covenant with the Lord. It was based on Levi’s fear and righteousness. Not technicalities written on paper, but a covenant of peace that was wrought by holy fear. THAT covenant was corrupted. The priests still went through the motions of their duties, but they had no fear or respect for the Lord. They traipsed in and out of the temple, tossed any old thing on the altar, and behaved in front of God like they would never behave to a governor. This is what brought curses on them. Now please understand me. I’m NOT saying people can sin as long as they have a “relationship” with the Lord. I’m saying the way we treat the Lord will show how we feel toward Him. Trotting into a church service wearing any old thing and then offering self-centered emotional gush you call worship is not the right way to show the Lord proper respect. If you wouldn’t trot into a business meeting like that, don’t expect God to be impressed. That’s the message here. But how many pastors (even good ones) are working with their flock to confront this?? And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the Lord with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand. Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the Lord hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant. — Malachi 2:13-14If you betray your marriage vows, you can bawl and weep at the altar all night, but God won’t care. Again, we see selfish, mean, disrespectful people trotting into church and putting on a show. All of this is packed into Malachi before we even get to the tithe part. If we won’t be honest about what Malachi really has to teach us, there’s no point in harping on the one tithe thing. The Christian mainstream church is making money hand over fist. Books, conferences, TV shows, websites, you name it. God has more money presumably at His dispoal than ever. Yet here we are in a famine. Why?
|
|
Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
|
Post by Cletus on Sept 3, 2019 16:59:27 GMT -5
what does this mean?
1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
|
|